What's new
By:
Filters
  • Check out our new Group Buy Program! We're kicking it off with Baja Designs! $10 Flat rate shipping no matter how much you order!

Make ANY steering box a forward swing

AgitatedPancake

AgitatedPancake

Frobot
Joined
Nov 28, 2020
Member Number
3093
Messages
1,174
Loc
Sacramento, CA
I'm sure this has been done, but I don't know how I haven't realized it before. Just add a ~$220 (currently) reverser to your steering shaft and flip the pitman arm to the front on your stock steering box. Seriously reasonable pricing considering you won't have to rebuild your frame rail for a different box in most cases. And depending on how you mount it, it gives you the opportunity to shift the steering shaft location around and give yourself more header clearance or whatever you need.

Shoutout to Dtill fab for the idea, he's a WJ guy that does solid fab and integrated this into his last build. (Here's his company FB page, but this wasn't posted there: Log in or sign up to view)

Here's the product page, from Coleman: REVERSE DRIVE GEAR BOX

This is his pic of it installed. Thought there was a pic of the pitman arm too, but don't see it.

310104674_8490204857719612_5560018494136529505_n.jpg
 
Last edited:
Right. So simple, yet it provides so much potential for all sorts of builds. The fact that it can also give you more exhaust clearance is a sweet added benefit
 
I love a good problem solving. But why not just get a steering box with the pitman arm facing forward and not have the gear changer?
 
JR4X said:
I love a good problem solving. But why not just get a steering box with the pitman arm facing forward and not have the gear changer?
Click to expand...
It's just another option on the table. For people with saginaw boxes, astro stuff may still be common enough to make that the superior option (I don't actually know how readily available astro stuff is these days). But in instances like WJs, it's a unique steering box bolt pattern, so swapping any other steering box means reconstructing the mount area of the frame rail. But the stock box is a pretty decent 4 bolt Delphi 600 style box, just not forward swing. And while you can put a decent amount of stretch in them with the original rear swing box, going forward swing opens up quite a bit more packaging freedom.
 
AgitatedPancake said:
It's just another option on the table. For people with saginaw boxes, astro stuff may still be common enough to make that the superior option (I don't actually know how readily available astro stuff is these days). But in instances like WJs, it's a unique steering box bolt pattern, so swapping any other steering box means reconstructing the mount area of the frame rail. But the stock box is a pretty decent 4 bolt Delphi 600 style box, just not forward swing. And while you can put a decent amount of stretch in them with the original rear swing box, going forward swing opens up quite a bit more packaging freedom.
Click to expand...

An Xterra steering box has the guts to switch the swing. But it has a weird pitman arm that bolts to it and has to be accounted for.
 
ParadisePWoffrd said:
An Xterra steering box has the guts to switch the swing. But it has a weird pitman arm that bolts to it and has to be accounted for.
Click to expand...
That's pretty interesting, I hadn't heard that before. From some quick ebay pics, it looks like an outside the frame rail, rear swing version (so the guts put into a WJ inside the rail box would be forward swing).

That brings up an excellent comparison for the sake of this discussion too. Would you rather put a $220 reverser in with a completely stock steering box, or no reverser with a custom steering box that you'd probably be into a similar amount. Having a completely stock off the shelf steering box has its benefits for convenience, but you're putting something else custom in the system which defeats some of the off-the-shelf nature. But then custom steering box means you can't just junkyard swap one if you ever have the need.

I'm not gunna try to make that decision for anyone, but it's nice to have choices :smokin:
 
Carry a spare length of straight shaft and steer backwards if you break it. :idea:


Should be good enough to get home, slowly. :laughing:
 
arse_sidewards said:
Carry a spare length of straight shaft and steer backwards if you break it. :idea:


Should be good enough to get home, slowly. :laughing:
Click to expand...
:lmao: I was thinking about that too. Like riding a bike with the handle bars turning the front wheel the wrong way hahaha. But should be doable. May even be able to use the same shaft if you intentionally give it ~6" of slip
 
AgitatedPancake said:
:lmao: I was thinking about that too. Like riding a bike with the handle bars turning the front wheel the wrong way hahaha. But should be doable. May even be able to use the same shaft if you intentionally give it ~6" of slip
Click to expand...
Once upon a time I installed a steering quickener in a vehicle that had just barely enough slip in the OEM collapsible shaft that I didn't need to make a new shaft.

When we got real stupid and stripped the splines on the coupling between the steering quickener and the box at 2am in the middle of nowhere we just unbolted it and pulled the OEM shaft back out to length.
 
DE0B0511-6C43-4ED1-9B5F-5D96220D6025.jpeg
7454C8D6-31BB-42D2-949E-D92054416756.jpeg



These weren’t as obsolete at the time we built this car. International scout II Saginaw steering box. Outside the frame and use the same generic guts as any 3 or 4 bolt Saginaw just with a longer sector shaft. PSC was making new castings but I believe I own the last of them they were ever going to make.
 
A little more dollars than a $200 dollar reverser. Any year Jeep that’s ever existed had an American right hand drive postal version of them with a mirror image steering box. You can either use the guts from RHD in the left hand drive housing, or use an Astro van box to get a left hand drive inside the frame box to get a forward pointing pitman arm. Or Use a right hand drive JK/JL steering box outside the frame on the left side with your old piston and corkscrew to make it a forward pointing.

B7BFF88C-8510-4D91-9C35-DED88A8EC647.png
 
AgitatedPancake said:
I'm sure this has been done, but I don't know how I haven't realized it before. Just add a ~$220 (currently) reverser to your steering shaft and flip the pitman arm to the front on your stock steering box. Seriously reasonable pricing considering you won't have to rebuild your frame rail for a different box in most cases. And depending on how you mount it, it gives you the opportunity to shift the steering shaft location around and give yourself more header clearance or whatever you need.

Shoutout to Dtill fab for the idea, he's a WJ guy that does solid fab and integrated this into his last build. (Here's his company FB page, but this wasn't posted there: Log in or sign up to view)

Here's the product page, from Coleman: REVERSE DRIVE GEAR BOX

This is his pic of it installed. Thought there was a pic of the pitman arm too, but don't see it.

310104674_8490204857719612_5560018494136529505_n.jpg
Click to expand...
So it just relocates the steering box?:confused:
Is this only a Jeep-thing?
Why reversed-geared?

This nOOB is confused...:laughing::homer:
 
CDA 455 II said:
So it just relocates the steering box?:confused:
Is this only a Jeep-thing?
Why reversed-geared?

This nOOB is confused...:laughing::homer:
Click to expand...

You can leave your stock rear swing steering box in the factory mount location, add this reverser before it (in the steering shaft between the firewall and steering box), and now your steering box is a forward swing. Just need to pull your pitman arm off and swing it around to the front, then you'll have room for all the stretch in the world.

It's similar to how people with saginaw steering boxes would hunt down forward swing boxes from astro vans so they could push the drag link forward for more stretch. Just another way to go about it.

JR4X great notes on the various different steering boxes in existence for different applications as well. This is definitely one of those topics that has many different ways to solve and no wrong answer. I have no need to forward swing any of my steering boxes right now, but if I did I'd probably be enticed by the reverser. Not for any technical reason except I've become less inclined to build with nice, but harder to find OEM parts these days. So in that case it really just boil down to convenience and personal preference, but happy to have all the options to choose from
 
AgitatedPancake said:
You can leave your stock rear swing steering box in the factory mount location, add this reverser before it (in the steering shaft between the firewall and steering box), and now your steering box is a forward swing. Just need to pull your pitman arm off and swing it around to the front, then you'll have room for all the stretch in the world.

It's similar to how people with saginaw steering boxes would hunt down forward swing boxes from astro vans so they could push the drag link forward for more stretch. Just another way to go about it.

JR4X great notes on the various different steering boxes in existence for different applications as well. This is definitely one of those topics that has many different ways to solve and no wrong answer. I have no need to forward swing any of my steering boxes right now, but if I did I'd probably be enticed by the reverser. Not for any technical reason except I've become less inclined to build with nice, but harder to find OEM parts these days. So in that case it really just boil down to convenience and personal preference, but happy to have all the options to choose from
Click to expand...
Ah; Ok.:beer:

My Bronco is forward-swing steering; so I guess I'm good.
 
AgitatedPancake said:
That's pretty interesting, I hadn't heard that before. From some quick ebay pics, it looks like an outside the frame rail, rear swing version (so the guts put into a WJ inside the rail box would be forward swing).

That brings up an excellent comparison for the sake of this discussion too. Would you rather put a $220 reverser in with a completely stock steering box, or no reverser with a custom steering box that you'd probably be into a similar amount. Having a completely stock off the shelf steering box has its benefits for convenience, but you're putting something else custom in the system which defeats some of the off-the-shelf nature. But then custom steering box means you can't just junkyard swap one if you ever have the need.

I'm not gunna try to make that decision for anyone, but it's nice to have choices :smokin:
Click to expand...

If you are pushing your axle out that far, you are likely going to need hydro assist also, so that makes your box not stock anymore. So unless you carry the drill, bit, and tap with you, grabbing one from the yard or parts store doesnt help much. I guess you could swap the servo section, but one could also swap the guts pretty quickly from a junk yard unit.

The Xterra/WJ combo is common with Early Broncos to get a better ratio box, that mounts outside the frame. A friend bought the 2 boxes from the local yard and we had the guts swapped in under an hour.
 
I didnt think these were a new concept, but this is obiously a new product.

However, looking at the bulk and off set of it i wonder if there is a small differential that could be utilised? Golf cart/lawnmower sized.
 
AgitatedPancake said:
That's pretty interesting, I hadn't heard that before. From some quick ebay pics, it looks like an outside the frame rail, rear swing version (so the guts put into a WJ inside the rail box would be forward swing).

That brings up an excellent comparison for the sake of this discussion too. Would you rather put a $220 reverser in with a completely stock steering box, or no reverser with a custom steering box that you'd probably be into a similar amount. Having a completely stock off the shelf steering box has its benefits for convenience, but you're putting something else custom in the system which defeats some of the off-the-shelf nature. But then custom steering box means you can't just junkyard swap one if you ever have the need.

I'm not gunna try to make that decision for anyone, but it's nice to have choices :smokin:
Click to expand...
Stock off the shelf forward swing box. Then it leaves room for a quickener. Most stock mounts leave something to be desired so redoing them isn't a big deal. Plus it let's you put the box exactly where it needs to go.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Back Refresh