Maine Bound!

[arse_sidewards]

actually built by a local for him and his family. He is a big name contractor around here. He’s built or worked on a hell of a lot of houses and camps around here. Also in addition to the construction business he runs a gravel business from the pits behind the house among other things. Turns out he also gets the contract to plow the roads here every year as well for example.

That sounds like a fancy way of saying he is benefiting monetarily from the influx of rich people from out of state.

He's worse than the guy running a tourist trap selling knick knacks from China. At least the tourists go home.

 

[djljeep]

I've never seen Hard drawn plumbing copper used for Propane with soldered connections. Only the soft drawn coiled stuff, which is generally installed in the yellow plastic jacket. I think there are restrictions on using that stuff as well, but I'm not well versed in propane code. Most newer installations i've seen have used the jacketed copper from the outdoor tank, buried up to the shutoff/regulator on the side of the house, and then black iron or CSST from there. I know you can use the CU inside under some circumstance, but when my dad had some propane work done recently in a basement he was told it had to be black iron (i think because it was exposed?). I certainly wouldn't trust soldered connections for propane. Seen the results of a few houses that blew the fuck up from propane leaks, and if a soldered or brazed connection ever leaked, how would you go about fixing it without some serious pucker?

I vote Flared copper or black iron.

 

[MoparMoe]

I've never seen Hard drawn plumbing copper used for Propane with soldered connections. Only the soft drawn coiled stuff, which is generally installed in the yellow plastic jacket. I think there are restrictions on using that stuff as well, but I'm not well versed in propane code. Most newer installations i've seen have used the jacketed copper from the outdoor tank, buried up to the shutoff/regulator on the side of the house, and then black iron or CSST from there. I know you can use the CU inside under some circumstance, but when my dad had some propane work done recently in a basement he was told it had to be black iron (i think because it was exposed?). I certainly wouldn't trust soldered connections for propane. Seen the results of a few houses that blew the fuck up from propane leaks, and if a soldered or brazed connection ever leaked, how would you go about fixing it without some serious pucker?

I vote Flared copper or black iron.

I approve this message.

 

[gavinda]

Just to chip in regarding the pipe, something no mentioned but might have been overlooked. Seeing as your codes seem to be really strict regarding copper pipe and soldering seem to be really strict (soft soldered coppper acceptable over here), is there anything in your codes regarding those pipe clips? They’re supporting the weight, but not actually securing the piperun from movement.

 

[[486]]

soft soldered coppper acceptable over here

where?
I've never seen it once
always black iron and soft copper, seldom brazed junctions on soft copper, not once hard copper or soldered anything

 

[aczlan]

All the ac linesets we brazed were soft copper, only copper I have seen used for fuel lines (oil or propane) was soft and it was flared.

Aaron Z

 

[gavinda]

where?
I've never seen it once
always black iron and soft copper, seldom brazed junctions on soft copper, not once hard copper or soldered anything

I’m uk. We don’t use iron any more. Trac pipe (yellow coated flexi) gets used but only in protected spaces.

 

[92 Green YJ]

In laws arrived this morning for a few days visit. My father in law wants to work on stuff round the house with me so we will likely tackle the heater for good over the next few days.

meantime after we toured him around the property and house (his first visit) we decided to head to Bar Harbor for some scenery and shopping. About half the town was closed for the winter, but there were still quite a few shops and restaurants open so we spent a few hours wandering.

my daughter was in heaven with her Shirley Temple at our early dinner. I’ll point out that she ordered a kids Shirley temple too.

and the food at Geddys was fantastic! I had a big old mess of steamers, a bowl of clam chowder, a steamed lobstah with corn on the cob and a slice of blueberry pie for dessert. Pretty much everyone else got fish n chips which were also very tasty. Will definitely eat here again sometime.

 

[[486]]

hang a sheet of plastic across the opening in the cieling lol

 

[ThePanzerFuhrer]

All I can imagine is how much it would cost to heat that room

This is why I have been asking about wood. He’s gonna burn a shit ton. Thats a monster house with lots of areas for heat loss. Either that or it’s gonna cost him $3-400 in propane/ fuel oil per month to keep it at 60 degrees.

 

[ThePanzerFuhrer]

hang a sheet of plastic across the opening in the cieling lol

No crap. It’s gonna have to be 100+ degrees up top get it 60 on the floor level.

 

[92 Green YJ]

So far the bathroom has been nice and comfortable. There is baseboard the whole length of the wall from the door to the shower and another baseboard heater alongside the tub by the shitter. Windows in there are double pane too.

 

[bgaidan]

A little fan up in that spire would help to circulate air and push some of the heat back down. I have a couple up in the peak of my ceiling. They're on a timer and run around 15 minutes at a time a few times a day.

 

[92 Green YJ]

A little fan up in that spire would help to circulate air and push some of the heat back down. I have a couple up in the peak of my ceiling. They're on a timer and run around 15 minutes at a time a few times a day.

Take another look. There is a ceiling fan up there already. Which reminds me, I need to switch the rotation on all of them for winter. I’ll knock that out tomorrow

 

[bgaidan]

Take another look. There is a ceiling fan up there already. Which reminds me, I need to switch the rotation on all of them for winter. I’ll knock that out tomorrow

You expect people to actually look at anything in detail here?

Good design on the OP for that though. It'll make a big difference. I'd experiment with it - might not be a need to switch it between seasons. I'd just see which direction pushes/pulls the most air. Since it's basically a little vertical wind tunnel, it's basically a big air exchanger sucking air up and pushing it back down.


I really wish they'd incorporate direction in to all these fancy remote fans. I have 6 of them in my place and I'm gonna have to drag in a ladder and hit the switch on all of them for the winter rotation.

 

[92 Green YJ]

You expect people to actually look at anything in detail here?

Good design on the OP for that though. It'll make a big difference. I'd experiment with it - might not be a need to switch it between seasons. I'd just see which direction pushes/pulls the most air. Since it's basically a little vertical wind tunnel, it's basically a big air exchanger sucking air up and pushing it back down.


I really wish they'd incorporate direction in to all these fancy remote fans. I have 6 of them in my place and I'm gonna have to drag in a ladder and hit the switch on all of them for the winter rotation.

Yeah that would be nice. Fortunately the one above the tub is the only one I’ll need a ladder to reach. The rest I can do with a small step ladder at most.

 

[92 Green YJ]

Well dropped the in-laws off at the airport in Bangor this morning. On the way back the boy and I swung into the Lowe’s over in Brewer since we were in the area. Managed to find a 50’ coil of copper (25’ would be perfect but of course, they only had 10’, 20’ or 50’ ) but of course, they didn’t have the wall thimble I need for the exhaust pipe, nor did they have the flare fittings I need for the copper line. So we went to Home Depot in Ellsworth before heading home. There I found a 3” wall thimble, but with a little work with the jigsaw should have no issues modifying it for my 4” vent pipe. Also found the 1/2” flare nuts I need for the line And grabbed a second roll of #6 bonding wire as the 25’ roll they sell them in isn’t long enough to reach the panel.

so tomorrow I am going to run the 1/2” copper line (with proper 1/2” copper line clips this time) from the heater to the propane tank, finish running the #6 bonding wire from said gas line to my sub panel, finally get the exhaust routed out properly, and hopefully get dead River out Thursday to hook it to the tank.

I am debating if I want to do the flare nuts or just let them do it when they come to hook it up.

also if I have time, I may go ahead and do some work in the basement in what we have decided to set up as a craft room for the kids. I was going to take a wall out and open the small second basement room up into the main room to make the play area bigger, but it already has some old school wall mounted built in desk and shelving in there, so the wife thought it would be a great craft room for the kids. Bought some chalkboard paint to do one of the walls in there so they can draw on it as much as they like.

 

[92 Green YJ]

So I forgot to post these the other day. While the in laws were here we of course had to take them to 1A Relics to browse around. While there I found this old Acorn vending machine rack for $65. Considering I used to deal with these as part of my old job, I just could resist grabbing them for the man cave. Figure I’ll fill them with gum balls, and some bulk candy and make the kids pony up when they want some.

now onto today’s progress.

after staring at it for a while, o decided to not route the exhaust of the heater thru the wall with the thimble I bought. I just didn’t see a good way to do it cleanly and make it not look stupid. Also with the requirements listed in the book to vent horizontal, it just wasn’t going to work. So I went verticalish instead. The way the roof is shaped on the garage, there is a lower strip that angles out away from the almost vertical section where the windows are above the soffit. I had enough of a gap to work and run the pipe thru here, so I cut a 4&1/4” hole thru the roof in this spot and routed my exhaust up thru it with a cap. All joints are screwed and wrapped with duct tape (imagine that, duct tape being used for its intended purpose).

then I also went ahead and ran the new flexible 1/2” copper tube with copper clips. Didn’t flare the ends. I’ll let dead River do that when they come out to hook it to the propane. I also finished running the #6 bonding wire from the gas line to the ground bar on my sub panel in the garage.

so then I called to get an appointment to hook it up. December 14th. All well. Taking a break then I’m gonna head down to the basement to work on the kids craft room a bit.

 

[92 Green YJ]

Waiting for the first coat of chalkboard paint to dry. Realized I haven’t really shared any pics of the basement apart from some of the utility room. Now this is a work in progress, but for the most part the kids have the basement as their play area. All their toys and stuff will,live down here. Eventually will put a couch, tv, etc down here.
so this is the main area at the bottom of the stairs.

picture above the door on the right leads to the utility room/second laundry room/second kitchen.

Door on the left is a full bathroom with shitter, sink, and shower.

down at the very end of the basement across from the stairs that go to the outside door is a small room we have set up as a storage room. All the various holiday crap, long term storage stuff, etc lives here.

then there is the second room next to the storage room which we have decided to set up as the kids craft room. Big open wall on the left is the one I am painting with chalkboard paint.

 

[92 Green YJ]

Wow, this stuff is taking a long time to dry. At this point I think I’m just gonna let it go overnight and roll on another coat tomorrow.

and yes I know I painted the outlets. I’m going to be ripping them out and replacing them in the next week or so anyway.

 

[budget76]

you painted the trim too little tape would have saved you a bunch of annoying re-painting

 

[aczlan]

after staring at it for a while, o decided to not route the exhaust of the heater thru the wall with the thimble I bought. I just didn’t see a good way to do it cleanly and make it not look stupid. Also with the requirements listed in the book to vent horizontal, it just wasn’t going to work. So I went verticalish instead. The way the roof is shaped on the garage, there is a lower strip that angles out away from the almost vertical section where the windows are above the soffit. I had enough of a gap to work and run the pipe thru here, so I cut a 4&1/4” hole thru the roof in this spot and routed my exhaust up thru it with a cap. All joints are screwed and wrapped with duct tape (imagine that, duct tape being used for its intended purpose).

then I also went ahead and ran the new flexible 1/2” copper tube with copper clips. Didn’t flare the ends. I’ll let dead River do that when they come out

What are your required clearances for that exhaust? A lot of them want 2+ inches of clearance to the exhaust.

Aaron Z

 

[92 Green YJ]

you painted the trim too little tape would have saved you a bunch of annoying re-painting

Yeah I know. I brought the tape down with me and was all set to do it, then I just said to hell with it. Clearly I’m not as good at cutting in as I think I am. I’m thinking a little MEK should take it right off though.

What are your required clearances for that exhaust? A lot of them want 2+ inches of clearance to the exhaust.

Aaron Z

it’s the angle of the picture, the exhaust isn’t actually touching anything and there is a few inches of space around it.

 

[aczlan]

it’s the angle of the picture, the exhaust isn’t actually touching anything and there is a few inches of space around it.

Makes sense, will your tape be a problem (ie:will it not like being heated)?

Aaron Z

 

[92 Green YJ]

Makes sense, will your tape be a problem (ie:will it not like being heated)?

Aaron Z

Hopefully not. I sprung for the high end outdoor rated stuff.

 

[92 Green YJ]

In the kitchen with the wife while she is making dinner and looked out the window to see our first snow! I doubt it will stick but here it is.

 

[djljeep]

Makes sense, will your tape be a problem (ie:will it not like being heated)?

Aaron Z

I was thinking that too. Looks like he used normal fabric/plastic Duck Tape, and I think what should've been used was the foil backed metallic Duct Tape, but again, not an HVAC tech... I have some other thoughts I will reserve as I'm not a propane tech either. Dead River will either hook it up or they won't. I think you might end up paying a little more to have them make the connection inside, but it's probably worth it in this case - A lot of propane techs and municipal inspectors are very edgy about Propane in Maine, and they have some additional leakdown test requirements because of this little doosie a couple years back. Maine fire marshal confirms Farmington blast was caused by bollard severing gas line

 

[92 Green YJ]

I was thinking that too. Looks like he used normal fabric/plastic Duck Tape, and I think what should've been used was the foil backed metallic Duct Tape, but again, not an HVAC tech... I have some other thoughts I will reserve as I'm not a propane tech either. Dead River will either hook it up or they won't. I think you might end up paying a little more to have them make the connection inside, but it's probably worth it in this case - A lot of propane techs and municipal inspectors are very edgy about Propane in Maine, and they have some additional leakdown test requirements because of this little doosie a couple years back. Maine fire marshal confirms Farmington blast was caused by bollard severing gas line

Yeah I used the fabric duct tape, I do however have a roll of the other stuff. If you think I need to change That I will. I’m tired of fucking with this thing and just want it running.

and yeah, that’s why I didn’t do the flares. I don’t know if it has to be single or double flair, and I’m not confident enough in my ability to do it so it won’t leak. I did dope all the threaded fittings for the whip and the shut off valve as the tech suggested last time she was here. I’m ok paying a few bucks to have a pro do the hook up and leak down testing. They did a leak down test when they installed the other tank for the stove too.

 

[[486]]

Yeah I used the fabric duct tape, I do however have a roll of the other stuff. If you think I need to change That I will. I’m tired of fucking with this thing and just want it running.

and yeah, that’s why I didn’t do the flares. I don’t know if it has to be single or double flair, and I’m not confident enough in my ability to do it so it won’t leak. I did dope all the threaded fittings for the whip and the shut off valve as the tech suggested last time she was here. I’m ok paying a few bucks to have a pro do the hook up and leak down testing. They did a leak down test when they installed the other tank for the stove too.

if you just want it going for now
bbq grill regulators are generally the 11" of water that furnaces generally ask for

just swap out the new-age commie fitting for a proper POL and stick it in a 100lber directly under the furnace
eta: it'll also let you know just how amazingly fast you'll be going through that 420lb tank

 

[92 Green YJ]

if you just want it going for now
bbq grill regulators are generally the 11" of water that furnaces generally ask for

just swap out the new-age commie fitting for a proper POL and stick it in a 100lber directly under the furnace
eta: it'll also let you know just how amazingly fast you'll be going through that 420lb tank

well I’m not planning to run the heater out there full time. So far the garage seems to hold at least ten to 15 degrees warmer than the outside. I think if I add some trim around the doors to seal the air gaps that will improve. There are currently no edge seals at all around the doors. I put this heater on an Ecobee 3 thermostat. So basically if I’m going to go spend some time working out there, I figure I’ll fire the heater up via my phone or echo like a half hour before I want to head out there and let it warm up some. I’ll shit it off when I am finished out there for the day. So hopefully I won’t be chugging quite that much pane.