Machinists step in

[Provience]

Not thaaat much. But it doesn't take much of a jump to kill a carbide end mill. A lot of it depends on the cutter geometry and the angle at which the part meets the tool. Taking a pass that's 75% the diameter of the cutter is going to turn out a lot better than if you're trying to true up a face with a .005" cut.

right, but in this thread people have said even light cuts jump too much to climb mill I've done 100% D side cutting at 100% D depth, but hand feed and slow and haven't had it snap a cutter from the table. typically i don't run that much, but if i need an approximate 1/4" cut in some 1/4" wall tube, it gets hit with a 1/4" endmill

 

[arse_sidewards]

right, but in this thread people have said even light cuts jump too much to climb mill I've done 100% D side cutting at 100% D depth, but hand feed and slow and haven't had it snap a cutter from the table. typically i don't run that much, but if i need an approximate 1/4" cut in some 1/4" wall tube, it gets hit with a 1/4" endmill

Light cuts are what you want to watch out for. Think of it like doing a burnout. Are you gonna make more forward progress spinning the tire in 2" of mud or half the tire's diameter of mud?

 

[WaterH]

Ok, I guess I don't know what climb mill is. Or more specifically, I may think it's the opposite of what it is. I always thought climb milling ment the piece feeds in to the endmill against the direction of its turning. (So the endmill won't pull the piece in) by you guys description, I will be conventional milling in one side and conventional back. (My mill table has some play)

 

[rockmup]

there still isn't any value added for hand crank one off jobs for spraying your table with water i don't get it, i don't see it. dry, air, oil...good enough for government work

Reading is difficult I guess, I didn't say do it, I didn't say I'd do it. I said it was better than nothing, period. I didn't think the obvious choices needed to be said.

 

[posford]

Reading is difficult I guess, I didn't say do it, I didn't say I'd do it. I said it was better than nothing, period. I didn't think the obvious choices needed to be said.

You could say the same about using mayonnaise as a personal lubricant. Doesn't mean you should use it.

Ok, I guess I don't know what climb mill is. Or more specifically, I may think it's the opposite of what it is. I always thought climb milling ment the piece feeds in to the endmill against the direction of its turning. (So the endmill won't pull the piece in) by you guys description, I will be conventional milling in one side and conventional back. (My mill table has some play)

Google climb versus conventional milling for nice pictures and explanation.

Light cuts are what you want to watch out for. Think of it like doing a burnout. Are you gonna make more forward progress spinning the tire in 2" of mud or half the tire's diameter of mud?

Burnouts in the mud? Thanks for confirming you've never been offroad lesbaru boi

 

[bdkw1]

.007 backlash? I'd fucking send it to. Most of the machines in the current work place have .020-.050. They all need new screws, adjusting them is pretty futile at this point.

 

[Provience]

.007 backlash? I'd fucking send it to. Most of the machines in the current work place have .020-.050. They all need new screws, adjusting them is pretty futile at this point.

machine is maybe 15 years old and we are far from a production shop

 

[bdkw1]

These are all 40 or older. Not a key way left in any spindle. Yet as well used as they are the quill feeds still work on all of them, must be some kind of miracle.

 

[Firstram]

 

[Isdtbower]

My lead screws are at least this "loose." Learned though....... from this crazy thread.

Adjusted the ways last month when I had a 300lb block of alum on the table. The table will rise and fall when it moves off center. I would put additional weight on the other side to help prevent that. (equilibrate the offset weight)

Drilling holes can get rid of metal fast, but does leave interrupted cuts and edges to really grab the tool. Learned to resist that also.

50 years of recreational/garage milling. Has never been pretty. Usually taking the mill beyond it's max capabilities. A mentor was a WWII ships machinist with a can-do attitude.

 

[2020AT4]

Not thaaat much. But it doesn't take much of a jump to kill a carbide end mill. A lot of it depends on the cutter geometry and the angle at which the part meets the tool. Taking a pass that's 75% the diameter of the cutter is going to turn out a lot better than if you're trying to true up a face with a .005" cut.

You could also have slop in the knee.

Taking that up depends a lot on your mill. Some have set screws, some handles on the ways and others a big handle under the X crank.

 

[2020AT4]

These are all 40 or older. Not a key way left in any spindle. Yet as well used as they are the quill feeds still work on all of them, must be some kind of miracle.

We have 40-50 yr old machines that work as good as new.

Then again we know how to use them.

It is a poor workman who blames his tools.

 

[2020AT4]

My lead screws are at least this "loose." Learned though....... from this crazy thread.

Adjusted the ways last month when I had a 300lb block of alum on the table. The table will rise and fall when it moves off center. I would put additional weight on the other side to help prevent that. (equilibrate the offset weight)

Drilling holes can get rid of metal fast, but does leave interrupted cuts and edges to really grab the tool. Learned to resist that also.

50 years of recreational/garage milling. Has never been pretty. Usually taking the mill beyond it's max capabilities. A mentor was a WWII ships machinist with a can-do attitude.

You definitely want to check your knee if it’s shipping around like that.

Back in the day when you started at a new job you were assigned a machine, usually the biggest piece of shit they had.

If you could make parts on that you would most likely see out your first month and get moved to a better machine and the difficulty of your work would increase.

Do that long enough and your pay would go up exponentially, hence the reason I’m not impressed with people who “Get paid”, as there’s an ass for every seat. I’ve personally worked with plenty of oxygen thieves, but hey, sometimes you need nothing more than an extra pair of hands.

An old timer showed me how to “Map” the first ragged out old boat anchor I was assigned to.

You basically put a bushing in the vise and indicated it. Then by moving the table side/side/up/down indicating and recording every move over the machines entire range of movement, you would wind up with a “Map” of the machines idiosyncrasys.

Knowing this you can make good parts and show the boss your big shiny brain.

 

[Provience]

50 years of recreational/garage milling. Has never been pretty.

everything you touch turns to gold! "never been pretty..."

 

[posford]

everything you touch turns to gold! "never been pretty..."

yeah no shit? I recall the picture on the old site with a beautifully machined billet aluminum trailing arm strapped to a lathe I think, using it as a horizontal mill to thread the end hole. Crafty as fuck man!

 

[arse_sidewards]

yeah no shit? I recall the picture on the old site with a beautifully machined billet aluminum trailing arm strapped to a lathe I think, using it as a horizontal mill to thread the end hole. Crafty as fuck man!

Desperate and crafty.

 

[2020AT4]

yeah no shit? I recall the picture on the old site with a beautifully machined billet aluminum trailing arm strapped to a lathe I think, using it as a horizontal mill to thread the end hole. Crafty as fuck man!

Now thats something I can admire.

 

[bdkw1]

We have 40-50 yr old machines that work as good as new.

Then again we know how to use them.

It is a poor workman who blames his tools.

Who's blaming the tools? The owners for lack of upkeep maybe. I still make good parts on them, I am just careful about climb milling on any of them.

But your a douchecanoe with a hard on to prove how superior you are to everyone, so go ahead and twist that response however you see fit.

Weren't you also spouting off in the bridge thread what a gods gift to engineering you were? Any other god like talents we should know about so we can worship you for them too?

 

[Isdtbower]

Yeh. I do get myself into some deep trouble. With more cool tools you feel like you can do anything.

And yeh. I have bent and broken a similar tool like the OP with a shitty set-up. Sometimes you learn. Sometimes, in the heat of the moment, you forget and do it again!

I don't like climb milling unless the last pass and only a few thousands. Seems to leave a better finish. Going to love tightening my mill up. Cheers.

Just having some fun. The trailing arm started as 300lbs 7075. That is what tilted the mill table when run from end to end. About 20 set-ups to get it done. Now about 90 lbs. Here is the threading of the heim the guys are talking about. Just have to out think it. I bought a tap and there was no way to drive it. Too much HP. Sketchy was doing those two threads on something you had about 100 hrs in EACH. I practiced first!

 

[2020AT4]

Who's blaming the tools? The owners for lack of upkeep maybe. I still make good parts on them, I am just careful about climb milling on any of them.

But your a douchecanoe with a hard on to prove how superior you are to everyone, so go ahead and twist that response however you see fit.

Weren't you also spouting off in the bridge thread what a gods gift to engineering you were? Any other god like talents we should know about so we can worship you for them too?

My my my, whos triggered now?

You have gone from Im a know nothing, to me being on my high horse, to me now proclaiming Im a god.

Which is it?

And this from the guy making clouds of smoke and pissing the entire shop off trying to cool a milling operation with WD-40.

Just stop.

 

[2020AT4]

Yeh. I do get myself into some deep trouble. With more cool tools you feel like you can do anything.

And yeh. I have bent and broken a similar tool like the OP with a shitty set-up. Sometimes you learn. Sometimes, in the heat of the moment, you forget and do it again!

I don't like climb milling unless the last pass and only a few thousands. Seems to leave a better finish. Going to love tightening my mill up. Cheers.

Just having some fun. The trailing arm started as 300lbs 7075. That is what tilted the mill table when run from end to end. About 20 set-ups to get it done. Now about 90 lbs. Here is the threading of the heim the guys are talking about. Just have to out think it. I bought a tap and there was no way to drive it. Too much HP. Sketchy was doing those two threads on something you had about 100 hrs in EACH. I practiced first!

See, thats it in a nutshell.


Your planning and setup is key to a good outcome. Most jobs are 80% setting things up and thinking them through and 18% actual work.

The other 2% is drinking coffee.

 

[Isdtbower]

I would have to do this in a quiet shop. No distractions. My wife knows to open and then close the door when the equipment is running. I get the message, and go to the door when I can. No phones either.

I wanted to do the threading on the mill as I could hold the part easier....But no way ...So you get inventive. I had to buy the boring head with a straight shank. Whatever it takes at this point. On month thinking. 4 hour making some parts and set-up. 4 hours- Drill/bore/thread. Done.

To the OP. Most of my crashes was because I got greedy on depth and feed. Manually, you WANT to go for it...but shouldn't. If it's hard to crank...back off.

Actually, I am surprised I even opened a "machinists step in" thread. But how we learn sometimes. Thanks.

 

[2020AT4]

Yeh. I do get myself into some deep trouble. With more cool tools you feel like you can do anything.

And yeh. I have bent and broken a similar tool like the OP with a shitty set-up. Sometimes you learn. Sometimes, in the heat of the moment, you forget and do it again!

I don't like climb milling unless the last pass and only a few thousands. Seems to leave a better finish. Going to love tightening my mill up. Cheers.

Just having some fun. The trailing arm started as 300lbs 7075. That is what tilted the mill table when run from end to end. About 20 set-ups to get it done. Now about 90 lbs. Here is the threading of the heim the guys are talking about. Just have to out think it. I bought a tap and there was no way to drive it. Too much HP. Sketchy was doing those two threads on something you had about 100 hrs in EACH. I practiced first!

Watched these a couple times and I have a couple questions if you dont mind.

It looks like you have a threading insert in the boring bar, but with not having a compound did you have any problems with the chip crowding the tool?

How much of a lead out/under cut did you have at the bottom of the hole? The Boring head looks really close when you stop.

And really just curious, why not start at the bottom of the hole and work the threads out? It takes a lot more thought, but IMO lessens the chance of a screwup.

All of this may amount to it being aluminum and it being slit and clamped in the end, but I wanted to pick your brain.

 

[2020AT4]

I would have to do this in a quiet shop. No distractions. My wife knows to open and then close the door when the equipment is running. I get the message, and go to the door when I can. No phones either.

I wanted to do the threading on the mill as I could hold the part easier....But no way ...So you get inventive. I had to buy the boring head with a straight shank. Whatever it takes at this point. On month thinking. 4 hour making some parts and set-up. 4 hours- Drill/bore/thread. Done.

To the OP. Most of my crashes was because I got greedy on depth and feed. Manually, you WANT to go for it...but shouldn't. If it's hard to crank...back off.

Actually, I am surprised I even opened a "machinists step in" thread. But how we learn sometimes. Thanks.

Sigh...


I set up a doorbell button with a light for my wife to use before she bursts in, she still just bursts in.

I for one glad you chimed in, looking forward to more.

 

[300sniper]

This thread makes me laugh. On a lead screw machine, it doesn't matter if there's .007" or .070" of backlash, climb milling makes no sense. The lead screw will never be constantly loaded. The climbing action will constantly be fighting the feed. Conventional milling will always have the lead screw loaded consistently while in the cut.

Is climb milling on a lead screw knee mill going to break tools? Maybe not. Is it the correct way to run it? Nope.

 

[Isdtbower]

Sigh...


I set up a doorbell button with a light for my wife to use before she bursts in, she still just bursts in.

I for one glad you chimed in, looking forward to more.

Thanks for pointing up the "other ways." From making aluminum links since the 70's, I never liked the end of threads near the end of the hole. Probably because I couldn't afford big diameter 7075. And back then 3/4" was big so it could be taped in the lathe.

I actually didn't think about inside out because I knew that I could stop the feed if I SAW it was messed up. I was pretty happy I did it that way as I missed the numbers fairly often. It was easy to engage between the numbers also. All that is retrospect as I generally had that procedure in my mind, and went with it.

Yes the feed stop was close to crashing but I had good control of that. I could stop with the boring head exact every time....And got lucky!

I seem to be cautious about what I have been doing on my build. Basically a Ultra4 IFS/IRS in billet. Everything is done first in wood to make sure I can even set the part up to machine. Even then I may wait a month or so before billet to see weak spots or other ideas. I don't do CAD so the wood is my reference for set-ups, tooling, and ultimately strength of the part. If I can break the wood with a hammer, it gets re-designed. I am procrastinating a IFS top bulkhead part right now where I saw some improvements but want to add winch mounting. A slow process, but I have just as much fun in the garage as out wheeling. Different fun. Never gets old. The billet part is because I am done just beating the shit out of my stuff and rebuilding new pretty much the same next week. Did that riding internationally on offroad Mtr Cycles. And as many are doing, you can have some pretty nice stuff and survive 95% of the nasties. So I am going to go for 85%.