Lucky Clover Racing 4800 build

[Im4yotas]

My goal with this build is to win the Ultra4 Racing 4800 KOH EMC class in a budget minded, garage built car. I think that spending the money in the smart places, with good design, plenty of experience and pairing with the right partners, along with a boat load of hard work and passion, can still beat the high dollar teams. I also want this car to look like it rolled out of one of the top fab shops, so special attention will be paid to craftsmanship.

This will probably be a long, slow build as I save and build mornings and weekends.

So far I have a 6.0 LQ4, 4L80e and a Ford NP205. Not many plans for the motor for now. Probably a mild cam and tune, plus I will have to build some headers I'm sure. Trans will be as stock as I can get away with (I'm open to suggestions for that. I have always had manuals before now). I am just about done rebuilding the tcase. Picked up an kit from Advance Adapters to mate to the trans and swap to the 32 spline input. Just waiting on a couple gaskets to finish putting it back together.

 

[Wilson]

You should subtitle this “I will beat Brad Lovell.”

 

[DesertCJ]

I'm in for the show. Cool to see some of the guys from way back on the other forum...

 

[Blase]

In to see what you come up with!

 

[Yotota]

Awesome to see this from the beginning!

I 100% respect your outlook on the race too. So many guys want to build something "just to race" as an excuse to build a cool buggy, and there's nothing wrong with that. But setting out to build the most competitive rig possible with the goal to win is commendable.

Where are you located? Once the rig is driving, testing and tuning will be just as valuable as the build itself. I know I would want to pull previous year KOH course maps and run the course at race pace as much as possible.

 

[Provience]

in would be nice to see a bit more money dumped into the motor and trans though

 

[Wilson]

I believe it was Jake’s performance that had 4l80e stuff like an electronic manual valve body. Rory from RA designs may be able to help out with that as well.

 

[mobil1syn]

Where are you located? Once the rig is driving, testing and tuning will be just as valuable as the build itself. I know I would want to pull previous year KOH course maps and run the course at race pace as much as possible.

i think he knows what hes in for ...

 

[Yotota]

i think he knows what hes in for ...

Sweet! Glad to see the OP knows his stuff.

 

[Im4yotas]

Awesome to see this from the beginning!

I 100% respect your outlook on the race too. So many guys want to build something "just to race" as an excuse to build a cool buggy, and there's nothing wrong with that. But setting out to build the most competitive rig possible with the goal to win is commendable.

Where are you located? Once the rig is driving, testing and tuning will be just as valuable as the build itself. I know I would want to pull previous year KOH course maps and run the course at race pace as much as possible.

I'm about 3 hours from the lakebed. I have spent a fair amount of time out there in the past and definitely plan on lots of test and tune. I'm pretty sure I am the first person to ever break at KOH! I was at the OG race in '07 and broke the water pump pulley while backing off of the trailer

I am working with Wayne at Alltech on some of the key elements of the design, and I will definitely be having him tune the suspension.

 

[Im4yotas]

So where do you all think are the smart places to spend the money?

Here's my thinking:

• Safety. I have a wife and kids who seem to want to keep me around. Also, co-dog in his family to think about.
• Reliability. Got to get it across the finish line. Cooling is high on this list. A lot of my reliability will come from my driving style instead of my wallet. Smooth is not only fast, it's a lot easier on the car.
• Suspension. I am limited to 1 shock per corner. Going to get the best ones available.

What else?

 

[DesertCJ]

What are you doing for axles? Personally, I'd do 14 bolts front and rear with chromo 1550 or even rockwell/violator shafts. Like you said, can't win if you don't finish. The 9"(10") stuff is bling but $$$ and after a few years of racing even the heat treated chromo housings crack...

 

[mobil1syn]

Safety
- Safecraft systems, id do two bottles. one with thermal heads the other self actuating.
- mount bottles where you can see the guages easily, for tech
- hard shell seats seem to be the thing these days

Reliability
- plumbing and wiring
- fuel system, consult with thewayne again
- steering pump failures seem to plague a lot of teams

Trans
- i think maximum trans has a manual valve body for the 80

look at what mike johnson, casey gilbert and the guys who finish on the regular do. keep it simple

 

[Im4yotas]

What are you doing for axles? Personally, I'd do 14 bolts front and rear with chromo 1550 or even rockwell/violator shafts. Like you said, can't win if you don't finish. The 9"(10") stuff is bling but $$$ and after a few years of racing even the heat treated chromo housings crack...

Still working on that. I would definitely prefer fabricated housings. Cracks aren't a huge deal, they will happen over time. Catching it before there's a problem comes down to good prep. The biggest deciding factor is overall cost, so I may end up with 05+ Super duty front and 14 bolt rear, which will slow me down in the whoops. So I'm still exploring other options, but I'm ok with it for a plan B.

 

[Provience]

Safety
- Safecraft systems, id do two bottles. one with thermal heads the other self actuating.
- mount bottles where you can see the guages easily, for tech
- hard shell seats seem to be the thing these days

Reliability
- plumbing and wiring
- fuel system, consult with thewayne again
- steering pump failures seem to plague a lot of teams

Trans
- i think maximum trans has a manual valve body for the 80

look at what mike johnson, casey gilbert and the guys who finish on the regular do. keep it simple

hard shell are also cheaper so that's a bonus.

I don't understand the need or desire for a manual valve body trans for U4. hell, I don't even see the need for a lockup converter. I do see the need for a dedicated cooler probably half the size of the engine cooler

engine: aftermarket heads to go with the cam, intake and valves. also with cooling capacity. you'd be hard pressed to have too much power with a limited budget, but a few grand can make a big difference if you can get some more RPM solidly out of the setup


also, spend money on the winch(s) so that you can drag dead bling cars out of the way when their high end parts fail

 

[DesertCJ]

Still working on that. I would definitely prefer fabricated housings. Cracks aren't a huge deal, they will happen over time. Catching it before there's a problem comes down to good prep. The biggest deciding factor is overall cost, so I may end up with 05+ Super duty front and 14 bolt rear, which will slow me down in the whoops. So I'm still exploring other options, but I'm ok with it for a plan B.

I'm curious what the real world speed difference is. I know in the shock department, there's some pretty cool stuff out now. Knee jerk is to go 3" internal bypass but honestly I don't know if that's any better than a well tuned 2.5" remote reservoir shock with DSC adjusters? Fox has the dual reservoir hoses now too with check valves to circulate the oil through the system better. You got that Wayne guy to help you though so you're golden.

 

[Im4yotas]

Safety
- Safecraft systems, id do two bottles. one with thermal heads the other self actuating.
- mount bottles where you can see the guages easily, for tech
- hard shell seats seem to be the thing these days

Reliability
- plumbing and wiring
- fuel system, consult with thewayne again
- steering pump failures seem to plague a lot of teams

Trans
- i think maximum trans has a manual valve body for the 80

look at what mike johnson, casey gilbert and the guys who finish on the regular do. keep it simple

Oh yes, seats. I put in my order just before KOH. Went with the PRP Alpha. It was snowing on the lakebed that day, so I added the seat heater

At almost $1300 a pop shipped, I went way over budget. But it fell into the safety category and my wonderful wife insisted. Who am I to argue?
When I raced KOH in 2009, we spent over 9 hours in the car and were sore for days. That was in my mid 20's and I will be 40 or close to it by the time I'm racing this. Comfort will be a much bigger focus this time around.

I have spent a lot of time around hydraulics since the last car, so I have some ideas on how to handle the steering.

Good stuff on the Safecraft bottles, thanks.

 

[Wilson]

My Lovell comment earlier was somewhat tongue in cheek, but that is a 15 year old promod car that consistently finishes and wins. It never “kills it” in the desert, but Roger is consistent, can pick through the rocks and the car is small and nimble enough to get around plugs.
I would keep things simple and light. Fab’d 9/10” housings with ‘05+ outers and cups/ bearings in the back. Run the tallest axle ratio that you are comfortable with. Since you’re working with Wayne, fox IBP’s all around. Largest cooling package that you can fit, heads, cam, but nothing too exotic. 8274 or a zeon (I love the free spool that is easy to pull and the clutch activation/ range on the remote.

 

[CDA 455 II]

Subscribed

 

[YotaAtieToo]

I'm curious what the real world speed difference is. I know in the shock department, there's some pretty cool stuff out now. Knee jerk is to go 3" internal bypass but honestly I don't know if that's any better than a well tuned 2.5" remote reservoir shock with DSC adjusters? Fox has the dual reservoir hoses now too with check valves to circulate the oil through the system better. You got that Wayne guy to help you though so you're golden.

Why would you want dsc's on a race rig?

I was told by accutune that the internal bypasses are basically only made for single shock class race rigs.

As far as axles. The 9/10" stuff can be done semi budget, the race gears are ~$1200+ though. I have never bought that they are night and day lighter than the same D60 given everything else from. The diff out is the same. Most people are comparing a full spider 9. However, being able to weld mounts wherever you want, and being able to swap diffs quickly would be a good thing with a race rig.

 

[DesertCJ]

Why DSCs? Same as why I'd want them on a trail rig, to dial things in without taking the shock apart. If you have someone else taking them apart and revalving then yeah who cares but I'm lead to believe that there is a more finite level of tuning available then with valve shims alone?

 

[Im4yotas]

My Lovell comment earlier was somewhat tongue in cheek, but that is a 15 year old promod car that consistently finishes and wins. It never “kills it” in the desert, but Roger is consistent, can pick through the rocks and the car is small and nimble enough to get around plugs.
I would keep things simple and light. Fab’d 9/10” housings with ‘05+ outers and cups/ bearings in the back. Run the tallest axle ratio that you are comfortable with. Since you’re working with Wayne, fox IBP’s all around. Largest cooling package that you can fit, heads, cam, but nothing too exotic. 8274 or a zeon (I love the free spool that is easy to pull and the clutch activation/ range on the remote.

Brad's consistency has helped steer a lot of my decision making. Almost everything about designing one of these cars is about compromise. A lot of people have been compromising rock crawling ability for go fast a little too much I think.

 

[Im4yotas]

also, spend money on the winch(s) so that you can drag dead bling cars out of the way when their high end parts fail

Lol. I did notice the Lazernut car using a rear winch on Deadblow. That looked pretty handy!

 

[DesertCJ]

Brad's consistency has helped steer a lot of my decision making. Almost everything about designing one of these cars is about compromise. A lot of people have been compromising rock crawling ability for go fast a little too much I think.

I'd have to agree. The ifs rigs don't crawl for shit but it is entertaining watching them bash and smash through the trails though. The high tire pressures aren't helping the situation.

 

[Im4yotas]

Since it will be a little while before all of the fun pictures with me hacking tubes in place and booger welding them together, I figure I will show some of what I have been up to while saving and collecting parts.

I started with very few fabrication tools after having to sell almost everything a few years ago. Since I am saving money for racecar parts, I don't want to spend a ton on tools. So, while saving, I am spending the time to build everything I can. I am working in a 3 car garage, so I have some room, but not a ton.

First, I built a welding table. 3' x 4' with 4 locking casters to easily roll around and use space efficiently. It's a 3/8" thick top with 1/4" x 4" vertical stiffening ribs underneath, and a 2 x 2 pattern of 5/8 holes. It is SO nice to be able to clamp anywhere on the table instead of only within a few inches of an edge as with my previous tables.

Next, I built a rolling base for my vise out of whatever remnant material I could get. Then I picked up a drill press for $100 that spun way too fast. I added some belts and pulleys to slow it down and increase the torque.

 

[Im4yotas]

I will be adding some of these to the shop and tools forum if you guys are interested in more detail.

I built a super handy quick release portaband table. So far, I am planning on doing most of my chop saw/horizontal band saw type of cutting with the portaband, so it will go back and forth a ton. I needed a very easy quick release, and I am happy with how this one works! Much sturdier, simpler and faster than other ones I have used.

[Edit] Adding a video of the quick release in action:

 

[Pitbullcruiser]

Yes! Garage built U4 rigs are the best!

 

[desertPOS]

Subscribed Will the new rig have eyes on the back of it?

 

[HYDRODYNAMIC]

What and how you are describing your build is similar to what I am doing with the big difference is I have no intentions of racing so I made room for 4 seats.
You can go through my build for details on all the different reasons for doing what I did.
Strongly suggest starting with a GoatBuilt subframe and skid pan as it is light and stronger than chromo. Same materials and design as what high end shops are doing at an affordable price. Same goes for the axle brackets. Do everything else yourself.
What I would change on mine if I was going to race:
2" tube to meet spec and be safe for speed but less tube and no heavy wall on the bottom which means it will dent and need to be changed out but it is lighter and faster.
Stick with a junkyard 05 SD 60 and Ford 10.5 and put the axle money into 40 spline RCV's, or alloys of choice, and Mark Williams brakes or other light weight brake kit.
More up travel at least 8"
Shorter wheelbase I extended mine 6" for the rear seats
No doubler as the drivetrain will be too long without extending the wheelbase
Lighter winch, keep it low and close to the crank pulley.
2.5" x 16" IBP on the fronts and 3.0" 14" IBP on rear trailing arms
Build spare tire compartment into the chassis. Many racers add them later and they end up high or hang out and drag.
Build everything lighter, cut out weight everywhere

 

[Im4yotas]

Subscribed Will the new rig have eyes on the back of it?

Hey, what's up! No, I don't think there will be any eyes on this one 👀. Probably just a spare hanging off the back. I'm pretty sure the old rig is still sporting the eyes, anyways. That's definitely where they belong.