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Low Volume US Car Mfg's SEMA LAW

Provience

Provience

Kill!
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https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/ent...he-engines/ar-BB1dhTKr?ocid=spartan-ntp-feeds

SEMA sent out a celebratory press release January 21 announcing that the long-awaited law to allow low-volume carmakers to build cars with complete drivetrains in them was finally ready.

“NHTSA has completed a regulation permitting low-volume motor vehicle manufacturers to begin selling replica cars that resemble vehicles produced at least 25 years ago,” SEMA said.
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https://www.autoweek.com/news/a1882...akers-get-big-break-motor-vehicle-safety-act/

So let’s all go party in the streets, right? Well, not just yet. According to The California Air Resources Board (CARB), responsible for clean air in California and by extension, the world, says no. The low-volume carmakers were under the assumption they could use so-called“crate motors” from GM, Ford and MOPAR in their builds. But CARB says any engine put in a“new” car, even an old-car replica, must meet today’s emission standards, which seems directly contrary to the law just passed and now fully enacted. Can CARB overrule the Federal government? And is that what it’s doing?

“NHTSA’s new rule really is all about exempting these special construction low-volume cars from safety standards, not emission standards,” said CARB spokesman Stanley Young.“It does open the door for them to legally sell whole cars as opposed to only DIY kits to build your own. CARB adopted a reg in 2018 to adopt a set of standards for engines used in these kind of vehicles.”
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let us all hope that there is enough of a loophole or delay from CARB taking over the federal government that several states are able to move forward and allow this to flower as it beautifully should!
 
All you need is an evap can and cats to meet emissions regs with these overpriced rich-guy cars and their overpriced off-the-shelf crate engines. What's the problem?
 
Norm said:
That's good for everyone but California :laughing:
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as long as EPA and CARB can be divorced, yes.

fuck I hope that CA hippy in the whitehouse doesn't fuck this up. 4 more years and there might be hope again! but i'm going to rejoice at the prospect regardless. IDEALLY with GM and F backing off the gas car market, it will get more lenient for small volume stuff.
 
realsquash said:
Change from what, though?
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the exact tested layout. one of the examples given in one of the articles linked makes a reference to exhaust manifold design, which has long been a CARB shitpoint. i.e. get your 5.0 coyote rated with a mid drop exhaust for one model, can't swap to a rear drop in the next model without recertifying the whole system.

so getting and O.E. (or other...blueprint????) to have a tested and certified platform for their crate motor that works in many scenarios would be difficult.
 
realsquash said:
All you need is an evap can and cats to meet emissions regs with these overpriced rich-guy cars and their overpriced off-the-shelf crate engines. What's the problem?
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Yeah, only people this will seriously negatively affect is the people that want to make a bundle selling them.
 
Filthy McChevy said:
Yeah, only people this will seriously negatively affect is the people that want to make a bundle selling them.
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i think a low volume hand built $45k car with "delorian" or "morgan" level of performance would be sweet.

even if they do end up needing to be $100k
 
Provience said:
i think a low volume hand built $45k car with "delorian" or "morgan" level of performance would be sweet.

even if they do end up needing to be $100k
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They will all be $150k+. CARB can suck it, there's no way to win with those guys, SEMA or not. And for the record I feel like SEMA is roughly equivalent to the NRA nowadays. I didn't rejoin them this year after having been a member for 9 years and having a booth at the show. They refuse to take any sort of political position on a number of issues. I am not happy with that aspect of SEMA.
 
Provience said:
i think a low volume hand built $45k car with "delorian" or "morgan" level of performance would be sweet.

even if they do end up needing to be $100k
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You ever driven a delorean? Performance isnt anywhere in the experience. An early 90s camry has better "performance".
 
Carb has a new fiend in the white house....
I bet carb causes a $5k bump at minimum, if this floats.
 
87manche said:
sure doesn't seem to be a problem for anyone other than californians.

and GM already fixed that problem.
https://www.chevrolet.com/performance-parts/crate-engines/e-rod-lt1
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Chevrolet Performance’s lineup of E-ROD high-performance crate engine systems are eligible for installation in millions of 1995-and-earlier vehicles in California.
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1995 or earlier, that is one of the potholes they are talking about, how will the ultimate issue of a 2021 model near production car get by when the closest GM crate certified engine was last certified for 1995 model year.

i sure as hell hope that the non-CARB aligned states (there's 10 of them?) do NOT have an issue and somebody like, say bomber fab, can sell a "road bomber" like a trail bomber chassis with a street light kit and be legal beagal as a MFG in the state of NV rather than selling "Kits" only for homebuilt cars.

the potential is high and i've got time on my side.
 
realsquash said:
They will all be $150k+. CARB can suck it, there's no way to win with those guys, SEMA or not. And for the record I feel like SEMA is roughly equivalent to the NRA nowadays. I didn't rejoin them this year after having been a member for 9 years and having a booth at the show. They refuse to take any sort of political position on a number of issues. I am not happy with that aspect of SEMA.
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i'm certain they will start high.

but holy fuck, people are all about the roxor, with the low volume deal being a NHTSA loop-hole, suddenly making something that is stripped down and will go 70mph down the highway with normal registration and none of the nanny shit would be dope.as.fuck.
 
Provience said:
i'm certain they will start high.

but holy fuck, people are all about the roxor, with the low volume deal being a NHTSA loop-hole, suddenly making something that is stripped down and will go 70mph down the highway with normal registration and none of the nanny shit would be dope.as.fuck.
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I still want a Morgan 3-wheeler :)
 
https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/new...-emissions/ar-BB1dm6U8?ocid=spartan-ntp-feeds

fuck fuck, come on.....low volume! 4 more years and maybe we can disjoin the EPA from CARB again and long enough to get some shit approved/grandfathered in.

I don't know HOW but there needs to be a state willing to entice small volume MFG's and get a completely CARB FREE system.

WASHINGTON — Toyota, Fiat Chrysler (now known as Stellantis following its merger with Peugeot) and other major automakers said on Tuesday they were joining General Motors in abandoning support for former President Donald Trump's effort to bar California from setting its own zero emission vehicle rules.

The automakers, which also included Hyundai, Kia, Mitsubishi, Mazda and Subaru, said in a joint statement they were withdrawing from an ongoing legal challenge to California's emission-setting powers, "in a gesture of good faith and to find a constructive path forward" with President Joe Biden.




The automakers, along with the National Automobile Dealers Association, said they were aligned "with the Biden administration’s goals to achieve year-over-year improvements in fuel economy standards."

Nissan in December withdrew from the challenge after GM's decision in November shocked the industry and won praise from Biden.

On Monday, the Justice Department asked the U.S. Appeals Court for the District of Columbia to put the California emissions litigation on hold to "ensure due respect for the prerogative of the executive branch to reconsider the policy decisions of a prior administration."
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Provience said:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/new...-emissions/ar-BB1dm6U8?ocid=spartan-ntp-feeds

fuck fuck, come on.....low volume! 4 more years and maybe we can disjoin the EPA from CARB again and long enough to get some shit approved/grandfathered in.

I don't know HOW but there needs to be a state willing to entice small volume MFG's and get a completely CARB FREE system.
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Most of them actually design their shit to meet CA emissions and sell them in all the states so the marketing department is OK'd to go ahead with BS like this because it doesn't change anything they do. But in the eyes of Prius owners they are super woke.
 
Provience said:
but holy fuck, people are all about the roxor, with the low volume deal being a NHTSA loop-hole, suddenly making something that is stripped down and will go 70mph down the highway with normal registration and none of the nanny shit would be dope.as.fuck.
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Thats sorta what all this is for, right? Vehicles like the Roxor?

The first guy to start repoping 80s Toyota Pickups will make a small fortune
 
realsquash said:
Most of them actually design their shit to meet CA emissions and sell them in all the states so the marketing department is OK'd to go ahead with BS like this because it doesn't change anything they do. But in the eyes of Prius owners they are super woke.
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fully agree, but them signaling and championing "single standard in the USA" and "CARB lead the way" piss me off :laughing:

which is why the low volume thing SHOULD be good. so how do we figure out to get a 49 state (or really 35 state or so) emissions legal vehicle? nobody trying to sell 10k cars a year would neglect CA and NY, but somebody trying to sell 500 or 100 a year just might. getting the engine manufactured wholly outside of those CARB states will be the issue, I can't imagine trying to make a low volume sales pitch to somebody trying to do millions of volume.

hell, fuck it. make flatheads great again :smokin: there has GOT to be a way to use something closer to pre-war style manufacturing and get 300 hp with a little bit of boost for some neat low volume street legal 2021 creature comfort style vehicles, or some 80hp econo boxes.
 
I don't see what's the big hang up here, just don't sell your low volume car in CA?

So are we for or against states rights to make their own regulations this week? I thought centralized regulatory power from the federal government was bad, now it's good and what people are crying for in this case?
 
posford said:
Thats sorta what all this is for, right? Vehicles like the Roxor?

The first guy to start repoping 80s Toyota Pickups will make a small fortune
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Icon is doing just that and makes a fortune.
 
Slander said:
I don't see what's the big hang up here, just don't sell your low volume car in CA?

So are we for or against states rights to make their own regulations this week? I thought centralized regulatory power from the federal government was bad, now it's good and what people are crying for in this case?
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the big holdup will be if the EPA adopts CARB as a national standard, which they did during the Obama years and trump EO'd to death and redirected, but Biden is already undoing those EO's.

with harris as VP there is going to again be massive pressure to have CA set the national standard
 
Provience said:
the big holdup will be if the EPA adopts CARB as a national standard, which they did during the Obama years and trump EO'd to death and redirected, but Biden is already undoing those EO's.

with harris as VP there is going to again be massive pressure to have CA set the national standard
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Ahhh ok, yea that would be annoying.

If a state wants to ban whatever, let them, but don't force that onto evreyone else, what's the point of state governments?

I say let them ram this down the throats of america, maybe the sane states will break away.
 
Slander said:
Ahhh ok, yea that would be annoying.

If a state wants to ban whatever, let them, but don't force that onto evreyone else, what's the point of state governments?

I say let them ram this down the throats of america, maybe the sane states will break away.
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this is another reason why the big auto MFG's are jumping all over the green restrictions and increased regulations. gotta keep those barriers high to keep the peasants out.
 
maybe, just maybe, with edlebrock relocating to the atlantic they will be more likely to support non-CA specific stuff.
 
Provience said:
this is another reason why the big auto MFG's are jumping all over the green restrictions and increased regulations. gotta keep those barriers high to keep the peasants out.
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Oh for sure!! Big corporations love big government and a massive regulatory state. It's the ass backwards marketing of our two "teams" we are presented with.

the other option is state level nullification pot law style. Just don't enforce the federal law and there is really jack shit the feds can do..... For now!
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