Legal way to ship a firearm from state to state, NC to CA

[Toyoda]

When shipping a firearm state to state, does it have to go from FFL to FFL or can the owner ship directly to an FFL?
My brother lives in NC, my father lives in CA. Brother wants to do an interstate-interfamiel transfer of a pistol.
FFL's around my brother will not ship to california. I have an FFL here that can to the transfer, he says my brother can ship directly to him.

I found this on the ATF website, and I believe the first line states its legal you just can't use the postal service (FedEx or UPS).
Page 5, question 6.

6. May I lawfully ship a firearm directly to an out-of-State licensee, or must I have a licensee in my State ship it to him? May the licensee return the firearm to me, even if the shipment is across State lines?
Any person may ship firearms directly to a licensee in any State, with no requirement for another licensee to ship the firearm. However, handguns and other concealable firearms are not mailable through the United States Postal Service and must be shipped via private common or contract carrier (18 U.S.C. § 1715). The USPS and private common or contract carriers may also have additional restrictions on firearms shipments by unlicensed persons. Firearms shipped to FFLs for repair or any other lawful purpose may be returned to the person from whom received without transferring the firearm through an FFL in the recipient’s State of residence. FFLs may also return a replacement firearm of the same kind and type to the person from whom received (18 U.S.C. § 922(a)(2)(A)). An ATF Form 4473 is required for the return of the firearm, except in instances when a firearm is delivered to a licensee for the sole purpose of repair or customizing, and the same firearm or a replacement firearm is returned to the person from whom received (27 CFR § 478.124(a)).

 

[DavidVanVorous]

As far as hand guns are concerned, given the CA "list" of what's legal and not, no real surprise the NC FFL folks don't want to have anything to do with it.
Had you considered driving, flying or even a slow boat around the tip of S. America instead? May cost a few more $$ but a whole lot less hassle in the long run. Possibly even cheaper considering what some FFL types charge for the services...

 

[Provience]

easiest, other than in person, would be to take it all apart, send things with serial numbers to FFL and send the rest direct to the end user

 

[Toyoda]

Thank you for the answers.

No trips planned to visit, and not sure when my brother will come visit. That would solve the problem the easiest.

Doing the interstate, interfamiel gets around the wonderful California approved pistol list. The only thing it doesn't get around is our assault weapon ban.

I have an FFL here that is willing and very affordable, just got to get the other side figured out.

 

[Provience]

Thank you for the answers.

No trips planned to visit, and not sure when my brother will come visit. That would solve the problem the easiest.

Doing the interstate, interfamiel gets around the wonderful California approved pistol list. The only thing it doesn't get around is our assault weapon ban.

I have an FFL here that is willing and very affordable, just got to get the other side figured out.

in that case, the absolute easiest would for your brother to go to a local FFL and have them handle it.

Steps for how to ship firearms​

Shippers with a Federal Firearm License
Only customers holding a Federal Firearms License (FFL) and federal, state, or local government agencies may ship firearms with FedEx. Customers holding an FFL must enter into an approved FedEx Firearms Shipping Compliance Agreement before shipping any firearms with FedEx. For more information, contact your FedEx account executive.
Nonlicensee shippers
Nonlicensees are prohibited from shipping firearms with FedEx.

How to Ship Firearms | FedEx

Find out what is required to ship firearms and what licenses you need. Read our guidelines on shipping your gun, including what is prohibited and how to secure your firearm.

www.fedex.com

Special Procedures for Shipping Firearms​

UPS accepts packages containing firearms (as defined by Title 18, Chapter 44, and Title 26, Chapter 53 of the United States Code) for transportation only in the following cases:

• (a) Between licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, and licensed collectors (as defined in Title 18, Chapter 44 of the United States Code), and government agencies
• (b) Where not otherwise prohibited by federal, state or local law, such as:
  • (i) from an individual to a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector
  • (ii) from a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to an individual.

The shipper must comply with and must ensure that each shipment containing firearms complies with all federal, state and local laws applicable to the shipper, recipient, and package, including, without limitation, age restrictions.

How To Ship Firearms | UPS - United States

Information from UPS about how to ship firearms, which are considered a special-care shipment and require some extra steps before packing them up and shipping.

www.ups.com

sounds like UPS will let him ship as an individual to a FFL, but that would be more effort to securely box up his own. sending only serialized parts would make it easier to package and also get around any potential questions about CA assault weapons shifting sands

 

[Texas97]

easiest, other than in person, would be to take it all apart, send things with serial numbers to FFL and send the rest direct to the end user

its a pistol. unless its an AR pistol, why would you ever consider doing this?

you can ship guns all the time from one state to another. But there are carrier restrictions (non FFL cant ship a pistol through the post office) and i think Fedex banned shipping firearms because they are a just horrible business and people to deal with.

the other side is its up to the individual FFL if they will accept a transfer from a private individual. Most will, but many are getting pissy about it because some people dont know how to ship it and include their ID etc in the package and the receiving FFL cant log the gun into their books.

if its a pistol, id suggest taking it to an FFL and let them box up and send through their carrier of choice.

 

[Provience]

its a pistol. unless its an AR pistol, why would you ever consider doing this?

you can ship guns all the time from one state to another. But there are carrier restrictions (non FFL cant ship a pistol through the post office) and i think Fedex banned shipping firearms because they are a just horrible business and people to deal with.

the other side is its up to the individual FFL if they will accept a transfer from a private individual. Most will, but many are getting pissy about it because some people dont know how to ship it and include their ID etc in the package and the receiving FFL cant log the gun into their books.

if its a pistol, id suggest taking it to an FFL and let them box up and send through their carrier of choice.

in case the Pistol in the free US doesn't meet the definition of Pistol in CA and is instead a banned weapon of death. also to make it easier to box and ship depending on a whole bunch of things.

those are my only 2 reasons that I can come up with for considering to do that.

 

[rockmup]

Ship it yourself to an FFL in California that will accept from an individual, so long as they can have it in that state, stupid simple.

Even simpler, take it to an FFL and have them ship it. Mine charges less than it would cost me to do it, especially if I figure in my time. I'm not cheap, lol.

 

[Leadfoot21]

I do believe you cannot in any shape or form legally ship a firearm whatsoever except from FFL to FFL. I would consult a well versed FFL or three , and more than one LEO .

 

[Provience]

I do believe you cannot in any shape or form legally ship a firearm whatsoever except from FFL to FFL. I would consult a well versed FFL or three , and more than one LEO .

UPS will let you do it, fed ex and USPS won't.

links a couple posts up

 

[Leadfoot21]

UPS will let you do it, fed ex and USPS won't.

links a couple posts up

I read it , it says an individual can ship to an FFL but not individual to individual . Crossing state lines and municipalities is still stick with FFL to FFL . I feel like that’s a much safer way to cover yourself .

 

[Etyler2]

If I remember on Saturday I’ll ask my FFL here. He’s our Scoutmaster also.

 

[Texas97]

I read it , it says an individual can ship to an FFL but not individual to individual . Crossing state lines and municipalities is still stick with FFL to FFL . I feel like that’s a much safer way to cover yourself .

That's false. Interstate transfer is legal from individual to FFL. Not the other way around.

Also you can ship firearms with USPS, just not pistols unless you are an FFL.

 

[Leadfoot21]

That's false. Interstate transfer is legal from individual to FFL. Not the other way around.

Also you can ship firearms with USPS, just not pistols unless you are an FFL.

That’s what I said . An individual can ship to an FFL but I said I wouldn’t do it across state lines we were talking about ups . I would be extremely hesitant to ship person to person with usps also . You mess up in any way with usps and you’re dealing with federal offenses unlike with ups or fed ex . I’m just stating my personal opinion is I would not ship except FFL to FFL to cover my own ass . I have too much to lose to do so over a 10/20 dollar each way FFL transfer .

 

[Provience]

That's false. Interstate transfer is legal from individual to FFL. Not the other way around.

Also you can ship firearms with USPS, just not pistols unless you are an FFL.

i wonder how many alarms it would trigger if you sent one surrounded by lead powder

 

[Texas97]

That’s what I said . An individual can ship to an FFL but I said I wouldn’t do it across state lines we were talking about ups . I would be extremely hesitant to ship person to person with usps also . You mess up in any way with usps and you’re dealing with federal offenses unlike with ups or fed ex . I’m just stating my personal opinion is I would not ship except FFL to FFL to cover my own ass . I have too much to lose to do so over a 10/20 dollar each way FFL transfer .

Crossing state lines and municipalities is still stick with FFL to FFL

 

[Texas97]

That’s what I said . An individual can ship to an FFL but I said I wouldn’t do it across state lines we were talking about ups . I would be extremely hesitant to ship person to person with usps also . You mess up in any way with usps and you’re dealing with federal offenses unlike with ups or fed ex . I’m just stating my personal opinion is I would not ship except FFL to FFL to cover my own ass . I have too much to lose to do so over a 10/20 dollar each way FFL transfer .

You can ship individual to individual intrastate, provided the particular state laws allow that. Regardless of Carrier, you can't ship to an unlicensed individual across state lines. You can ship individual to FFL across state lines.

 

[PAE]

Back a few years ago the FFL shipping into calif had to apply to cal doj to get a specific number to have the shipment authorized.

I doubt they have given up this control, if anything it would have gotten more complicated and stupid.

At least this is what I remember.

https://support.gunbroker.com/hc/en-us/articles/221829548-California-Firearms-Licensee-Check-CFLC-

You can ship individual to individual intrastate, provided the particular state laws allow that. Regardless of Carrier, you can't ship to an unlicensed individual across state lines. You can ship individual to FFL across state lines.

 

[FrankenToy]

To muddy the waters a bit... Is it still allowed to ship a gun to yourself? At one time you could buy a gun in a non-resident state and then ship it home, to yourself, right? Mebbe I'm thinking of something entirely different.

 

[Toyoda]

Just to clarify, I can't find an FFL in the area of NC where my brother is at that will ship to Ca.
I have an FFL here in Ca that will accept a pistol from my brother, I just wanted to make sure that we can legally ship it.

Because the pistol is coming to Ca, I want to make sure everything we do is legal. If I didn't care about that I would have my brother ship my dad the pistol and then fill out the BOF4544A and send in the $19. This is alot cheaper and easier, but not worth the consequences if it fails.

 

[Gatorgrizz27]

To muddy the waters a bit... Is it still allowed to ship a gun to yourself? At one time you could buy a gun in a non-resident state and then ship it home, to yourself, right? Mebbe I'm thinking of something entirely different.

It was, however CA may have some restriction on that and I can’t remember if it only applied to long guns.

 

[non-OP]

You can ship any legal pistol (on or off-roster) to CA from out of state on your own to an FFL. You must use a private carrier such as FedEx or UPS.

If this is an intrafamiliar interstate gift, then the shipper needs to to include a copy of front and rear of ID and a letter stating that the firearm is a gift from father to son, son to father, etc (some CA legal vertical family relation) and include the make, model and serial of the firearm in that letter.

The receiving FFL must be willing to accept a private shipment (some don't) and must be willing to do an intrafamilial interstate transfer (most don't) and code it correctly in DROS. Expect to pay more since its not a PPT and therefore has no mandated price.

You should also ask the FFL if they release on DOJ "undetermined" status

 

[Toyoda]

What is the undetermined status?

 

[Stuck]

Thank you for the answers.

No trips planned to visit, and not sure when my brother will come visit. That would solve the problem the easiest.

Doing the interstate, interfamiel gets around the wonderful California approved pistol list. The only thing it doesn't get around is our assault weapon ban.

I have an FFL here that is willing and very affordable, just got to get the other side figured out.

What is there to figure out? The way I read your post is you and dad are in CA as is the FFL. Have your brother in NC go to FedEx and ship the gun to the FFL. Dad goes and pics up gun at FFL. Youre overthinking the issue. Its no different than you going to fedex and shipping a gun off to the manufacturer to have repairs done.

 

[Stuck]

To muddy the waters a bit... Is it still allowed to ship a gun to yourself? At one time you could buy a gun in a non-resident state and then ship it home, to yourself, right? Mebbe I'm thinking of something entirely different.

That only applys to long guns (at least post 86 I dont think you could prior either but Im not sure). If you buy a pistol out of state (legally) that FFL must send it to an FFL in your home state to do the checks (or what have you) for you to take possession.