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Leaf springs vs. Coil springs: The definitive answer?

IowaOffRoad

IowaOffRoad

King shit of turd island
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So, making plans for my 93 4Runner build. I just yanked the body off another one I had for parts this week and started doing some measuring and thinking. I am cheap and like stuff simple, but as these things already have coils in the rear, I would like to know what everyones thoughts are. My plans are to keep the IFS on 33's for a while, then solid axle the front and put 35-37's on it in the future. I have plenty of springs to choose from if using leaves to fab something for time and welding wire, but don't have any coils. After staring at the 4Runner frame for a while and taking some measurements, rather than bob the back I think I'd like to push the axle to the rear for departure angle. So I feel like these are my choices:

-lift the rear for now with spacers, then put leaves on all 4 corners when I SAS it (relocating the rear axle centerline when I do)
-lift the rear with spacers/springs, then put leaves in the front when I SAS it (this would leave the rear axle in the stock location)
-relocate the rear coil mounts on the frame, change the geometry of the links and lengthen them, adding coil mounts to the front (or coil-over mounts if I have the $) and running coils front/rear
-cutting everything off and starting from scratch with custom coil mounts/link mounts front/rear

First two are most likely to happen with my budget. Last 2 are things I could do easily up until I buy coil-overs and have to justify the expenditure to the missus. I'm also a cheap bastard when it comes to toys, but I like the fabrication challenges so if you have an economical suggestion for anything I'd like to hear it.

Also, so you know what I'm going for, this would be a dedicated wheeling rig, but will see some road time and want it to act stupid at road speeds. Probably not a KOH build or rock bouncer, more "be able to do dificult stuff and not come home in pieces".

Sell me on one of these, or other options I haven't considered with your wisdom and experience:laughing:
 
I have leafs all around, but as I get older and with my wife having 3 herniated discs and the ride being too rough, my next build will get linked. Leafs work great for wheeling, but personally I need it to ride nicer because I enjoy wheeling with my wife.
:flipoff2:
 
so wheeled both leafs and links now with FOA coil overs. i am sold on the COs. i truly do love the K,I,S,S, of leafs but the quality of the ride is so much better, also got quality seats too so between them two it is a pleasure to hit big bumps at sped, not road speed but trail speed. absorbs the hits and just keeps on going with out the spring back of a leaf.
 
I like leafs, they have some Downsides, but can be set up to work well.

Many people seem to try and compare old used junk yard leafs and $40 shocks to brand new $1200+ coilovers. So not exactly apples to apples. Good purpose built leafs and decent shocks are much better.

Also, although it's not hard to set up leafs, many people still miss the mark. I still see "shackle angle looks good" when there is no magic angle. A leaf with a lot of arch will need a more vertical shackle than a flatter leaf.

Also, with all the universal link kits and parts, seems that just kinda putting the mounts where they work is really common. Then just buying shocks and putting them on with zero tuning.



Pro's to leafs

Budget friendly
Easy to set up
Easy to maintain
Easy to repair on the trail
Usually hold wieght better
Stable

Cons to leafs

Can be rough
Can have bad axle wrap
Mounts typically hang down lower and stick out further

Pros to links (assuming proper set up)

Basically infinite tune ability (spring rate, handling characteristics, damping, ect)
Good approach and departure angles
No axle wrap
Virtually indestructible
Plush ride

Cons to links

Expensive to build
Many failure points (link ends, jam nuts coming loose, mounts cracking, links bending/breaking, ect)
More maintenance
Harder to repair on trail
Much harder to set up


I am starting to mess with spring under, you take a little clearance hit, but being so close to the tire, it's not terrible. The wrap and uptravel benefits are worth it to me. My little samurai is spua front and rear and it works good. I hate where the shackles land in the front. My plan is to move the frame up and mounts way up in order to go spring over.

My big crawler build is set up spring under rear, with 2.0x14 resi shocks and 2.5x16 air shocks in the front, but it's just a jack stand crawler so far. Best of both worlds hopefully :laughing:
 
King coilovers, all 4 corners.
Gets me airborne, and brings me come in comfort. ( and still crawls quite well.. )
 
i did have trail gear 3 inch flexy leaf springs in the front for a season, and had a mixture of different RUF ones prior, trail gear ones were great improvement for sure. and i had leafs for 5 years. the rears were 63s i really did like them, correct on shackel and shocks, it rode good but it was time to upgrade, we actually i get a screaming deal on a front dana 60 and that set me down a deep deep rabbit hole.
 
To everyone who’s gone the CO route:
What is the total cost, fabbing everything that can be and only buying what’s necessary?
Has anyone done coil suspensions using off-the-shelf Dodge/Jeep coils, or something else that’s pretty long from the factory?
 
IowaOffRoad said:
To everyone who’s gone the CO route:
What is the total cost, fabbing everything that can be and only buying what’s necessary?
Has anyone done coil suspensions using off-the-shelf Dodge/Jeep coils, or something else that’s pretty long from the factory?
Click to expand...
Total cost can vary wildly depending on all the options you pick.

Usually the cheapest is ruff stuff or Barnes type hiem joints. Depending on use, they can develop slop quickly. It can be cheaper in the long run to use a rebuildable joint.

Yes, many have used coil springs, nothing wrong with it except it's quite a bit harder to package and mount, especially in the front with steering and track bar.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
I like leafs, they have some Downsides, but can be set up to work well.

Many people seem to try and compare old used junk yard leafs and $40 shocks to brand new $1200+ coilovers. So not exactly apples to apples. Good purpose built leafs and decent shocks are much better.

Also, although it's not hard to set up leafs, many people still miss the mark. I still see "shackle angle looks good" when there is no magic angle. A leaf with a lot of arch will need a more vertical shackle than a flatter leaf.
Click to expand...


100% this

people that say leafs ride like shit simply dont know wtf theyre doing, ive built multiple rigs on leaf springs and have gotten dozens of compliments of how smooth and stable the vehicle rides, from buggies to crawlers to tow rigs to all purpose rigs.

obviously links and CO are better(when setup correctly) but lets not get carried away and act like leafs setup correctly wont work perfect for the vast majority of your average wheelers. imo it boils down to how much money you want to spend and what you feel like building, my next rig will be links because ive already built lots of leaf sprung rigs and only a couple with links, id like to get some more experience with the links.
 
As I've stated many times, I'm a cheap bastard and have reason to be as I'm the only income and have 4 kids. I like leaves for all the reasons mentioned, but am willing to spend smart money if it's a much better result.

Nobody has commented on leaves in the front and keeping the rear coils. Is this the dumbest idea ever? Taking some measurements off the frame, I thought about pushing the rear back as far as I can and building link bars and frame mounts with the proper geometry in order to utilize the factory axle mount locations for ease of replacement at a later date, and tubbing the body to incorporate wheel wells. My biggest question about this setup is the drivability and the ability to find lift springs or use a longer factory spring off something else.
With this my plan for the front would be to use 1/2T dodge leaves in the front as I have them lying around, or something else with an offset pin thats long to give more flex.
Is this a bad idea, or will it work fine and just look stupid?
 
IowaOffRoad said:
As I've stated many times, I'm a cheap bastard and have reason to be as I'm the only income and have 4 kids. I like leaves for all the reasons mentioned, but am willing to spend smart money if it's a much better result.

Nobody has commented on leaves in the front and keeping the rear coils. Is this the dumbest idea ever? Taking some measurements off the frame, I thought about pushing the rear back as far as I can and building link bars and frame mounts with the proper geometry in order to utilize the factory axle mount locations for ease of replacement at a later date, and tubbing the body to incorporate wheel wells. My biggest question about this setup is the drivability and the ability to find lift springs or use a longer factory spring off something else.
With this my plan for the front would be to use 1/2T dodge leaves in the front as I have them lying around, or something else with an offset pin thats long to give more flex.
Is this a bad idea, or will it work fine and just look stupid?
Click to expand...
link suspension doesnt have to be super expensive bling CO and fancy joints

build your own longer links utilizing cheap weld on bushing joints and theres an endless supply of jeep coil springs for dirt cheap in all kinds of different sizes. spend a little more and get some decent bushings, im thinking about trying these out next on a future excursion front 4 ink build


Metalcloak Patented Duroflex Bushings, Joints and Suspension Builder Parts

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wfo offers them as an upgrade vs cheap ruffstuff type heims, cheaper alternative to expensive fk/emf heims

i think they would be perfect for your average trail rig that sees a lot of street driving

copy something like this
www.ruffstuffspecialties.com

Toyota Mini 4 Link REAR

Check out the deal on Toyota Mini 4 Link REAR at RuffStuff Specialties
www.ruffstuffspecialties.com www.ruffstuffspecialties.com
trail-gear.com

Trail Link Four Rear Link Suspension Kit

TRAIL LINK FOUR REAR LINK SUSPENSION KIT
trail-gear.com trail-gear.com

example of cheap coils
 
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I vote leafs. If you also value your time like your wallet you'll be spending way more time getting the links under your rig to work well than you will setting up leafs. I don't necessarily agree with going through all the effort of setting up links to cheap out on joints/links/co/air shocks/etc. If you're going to spend the time spend the dime.

As far as costs go, I always run rancho 44044 on all 4 corners whether it be a zuk or yota, they also work with yj leafs so adding leafs and making packs is cheap (I usually remove 1 or 2 leafs) but you still start with a new spring. The rancho's, brackets, Bilstein shocks, and all installed costs me $600-750 for the front or rear so $1200-1500 total, that's about the cost of 2 link bracket/heim kits and you still need a shock/co/dom.

Current build I'm doing (plan on posting a build thread) is 44044, 7.17 Dana 1 tons, 18-20" belly, under a zuk...quick winter build for cheap with some springs and axles I had laying around. So yea, toss leafs under it and enjoy it, while you're wheeling start a tube buggy/buy a chassis and play with links in your free time.
 
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I didn't think 44044s had been sold for like 20 years :laughing:

I like the BDS YJ leafs, cheap, double mil wrap and lifetime warranty. (yes they actually will replace a bent spring) the no offset sucks a little, but easy to work around.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
I didn't think 44044s had been sold for like 20 years :laughing:

I like the BDS YJ leafs, cheap, double mil wrap and lifetime warranty. (yes they actually will replace a bent spring) the no offset sucks a little, but easy to work around.
Click to expand...
Haha Still around and still work as well as 20 years ago. I had a few bds springs, I prefer the 44044 because they're a tad longer and the offset pin and price, at $200 a pair they're hard to beat.
 
There's no "definitive" answer...

Both suspension systems can vary from cheap crap to really nice.

A well designed and setup leaf spring truck will be more comfortable and wheel better than a poorly designed and setup link/coilover truck.

Dollar for dollar, leaves and good shocks get you more performance and reliability... Up to a point. Once you're into the money for Deaver packs ($7-800/ea) and some 3" bypass shocks ($1-2k/ea) you're at the point where that same $8k would get you into a pretty decent link/coilover build at $2k in link hardware plus $6k in shocks/springs.
 
Wuz-A-zuk said:
Haha Still around and still work as well as 20 years ago. I had a few bds springs, I prefer the 44044 because they're a tad longer and the offset pin and price, at $200 a pair they're hard to beat.
Click to expand...
Incorrect. 44044s have been discontinued. They are unavailable.
 
Yotota said:
There's no "definitive" answer...

Both suspension systems can vary from cheap crap to really nice.

A well designed and setup leaf spring truck will be more comfortable and wheel better than a poorly designed and setup link/coilover truck.

Dollar for dollar, leaves and good shocks get you more performance and reliability... Up to a point. Once you're into the money for Deaver packs ($7-800/ea) and some 3" bypass shocks ($1-2k/ea) you're at the point where that same $8k would get you into a pretty decent link/coilover build at $2k in link hardware plus $6k in shocks/springs.
Click to expand...

100% agree.

I wheeled for years on 44044’s up front and cheap 5125’s never had an issue. Swapped to tuned 2.0 foxes and the ride quality difference was night and day. Then after 15 years of abuse, one of the 44044’s started to collapse so I went links and it’s another step forward. Not as much dollar for dollar as getting the new shocks on leaves but definitely an improvement in axle control especially. Not having spring wrap or side to side movement made a bigger difference than I would have thought in terms of steering in the rocks when you’re bound up
 
Anyone who says leaves are for poor people haven't ordered custom leaves before. I will attest to the ride quality of properly spec'd leaves with good shocks. I'm annoyed how good it rides in fact. You could go the cheap way and swap cheap leaves that fit, but if the leaves were meant for a different truck....
 
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