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Larboc finally starts building a shop.

This is in the ballpark of being affordable, but would it really be a significant improvement over what I'm doing or save any time. Seems like the wrong tool for the job? $900 a week.
https://catalog.mrmqt.com/product/ca...-asphalt/53279

I bugged the local contractor re-doing the highway and their Bomag style Cat roller is a rental, is busy, has a significant motor problem, and they can't rent it out.

Edit: What about this guy? I can't tell if it vibrates or not. https://wausau.craigslist.org/grd/d/pittsville-compactor/7181300283.html

These are the wrong kind of compactor. They are asphalt style compactor. They don’t hit anywhere near as hard as a bomag style. You fire up the bomag and you can feel the ground vibrate 100+Yds away.

My dad did the dirt work for addition onto a shop that did laser cutting. He had wait till the machines were not running to use the compactor as it was screwing the machines up. They did not like being vibrated like that.
 
These are the wrong kind of compactor. They are asphalt style compactor. They don’t hit anywhere near as hard as a bomag style. You fire up the bomag and you can feel the ground vibrate 100+Yds away.

My dad did the dirt work for addition onto a shop that did laser cutting. He had wait till the machines were not running to use the compactor as it was screwing the machines up. They did not like being vibrated like that.

That's what I figured. I'm working on getting the loaded dump truck further and further out on the fill. I'm starting to be able to get the steers on it but it takes a while. I move the truck about 6" every time.
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I stopped and bugged the highway crew again and this time the foreman was in the group of people I was bothering and I asked about hiring them to come pack it. He said he would if it was closer but he couldn't drive it 2 miles down the county road and they didn't have a way to haul it since it was a rental. I told him what I was doing and that it was virtually the same sand as they were working with and he said they put it on in 2' lifts by backing dump trucks up and spreading with a dozer, wet it, and hit it with the roller, and it passes compaction at 95%. Because it's so clean they will get their water truck stuck if they try to drive over it very far, similar results to what I was running into with my loaded dump truck tires, the sand squirts out horizontally. Once it gets a topping of crushed rock it will hold up anything. He said it's nice stuff that drains well and I shouldn't have any problems doing what I'm doing in 4" lifts with the plate compactor aside from it taking a forever.
The engineer spec'd out a slope of 1:2 covered with topsoil for the new section of road they put in which was a corner in a wet area and their fill site is probably 10' above the surrounding site at the thickest point. So I'm going with that. They didn't use any different aggregate to contain the sand.
 
I stopped and bugged the highway crew again and this time the foreman was in the group of people I was bothering and I asked about hiring them to come pack it. He said he would if it was closer but he couldn't drive it 2 miles down the county road and they didn't have a way to haul it since it was a rental. I told him what I was doing and that it was virtually the same sand as they were working with and he said they put it on in 2' lifts by backing dump trucks up and spreading with a dozer, wet it, and hit it with the roller, and it passes compaction at 95%. Because it's so clean they will get their water truck stuck if they try to drive over it very far, similar results to what I was running into with my loaded dump truck tires, the sand squirts out horizontally. Once it gets a topping of crushed rock it will hold up anything. He said it's nice stuff that drains well and I shouldn't have any problems doing what I'm doing in 4" lifts with the plate compactor aside from it taking a forever.
The engineer spec'd out a slope of 1:2 covered with topsoil for the new section of road they put in which was a corner in a wet area and their fill site is probably 10' above the surrounding site at the thickest point. So I'm going with that. They didn't use any different aggregate to contain the sand.

Did you watch the video I posted?

Not sure about cost, and I missed how thick all this sand will be, but a few layers of fabric could be worth it.
 
I stopped and bugged the highway crew again and this time the foreman was in the group of people I was bothering and I asked about hiring them to come pack it. He said he would if it was closer but he couldn't drive it 2 miles down the county road and they didn't have a way to haul it since it was a rental. I told him what I was doing and that it was virtually the same sand as they were working with and he said they put it on in 2' lifts by backing dump trucks up and spreading with a dozer, wet it, and hit it with the roller, and it passes compaction at 95%. Because it's so clean they will get their water truck stuck if they try to drive over it very far, similar results to what I was running into with my loaded dump truck tires, the sand squirts out horizontally. Once it gets a topping of crushed rock it will hold up anything. He said it's nice stuff that drains well and I shouldn't have any problems doing what I'm doing in 4" lifts with the plate compactor aside from it taking a forever.
The engineer spec'd out a slope of 1:2 covered with topsoil for the new section of road they put in which was a corner in a wet area and their fill site is probably 10' above the surrounding site at the thickest point. So I'm going with that. They didn't use any different aggregate to contain the sand.

I do grading and site work for a living, and yes for sure there's different types of sand, but they can all be made to work for a building pad. Your sand appears to have very little if any clay content to it at all, so yes you'll wheel hop in it, only under ideal circumstances may you ever "proof roll" it with a loaded dump truck until it's totally level. My suggestion for the section(s) you're building up the most, is to go ahead outside of the building pad and pile the topsoil up and slope it and compact it as like a dam to keep the loose sand from shifting outwards. Keep adding topsoil in lifts to contain your new higher lifts of sand, but don't go ahead and build the topsoil to finished height because it will dam up water in heavy rains.I would also consider putting a layer of that loose sand under your topsoil slope as the base layer, so that any water on your pad will drain through the loose sand, and out under the topsoil around it, instead of super saturating your sand foundation and turning it into a pumping, or worse, quicksand situation. I have built foundations on beach sand on the outer banks of NC where you couldn't even turn a bulldozer on it without screwing up the sand because it was so loose, but get it in there to height, wet it, and top it with a thin layer of ABC gravel (or whatever they call it there) and it will stabilize and compact and you can proof roll it. If you have any questions feel free to ask.

Since i have two sand mines of my own, each with varying types of sand, for deep fills like that I use the sections of our pit that most contractors don't like because the sand is "ugly" with softball sized balls of clay in it, but it packs like concrete just by driving dump trucks on it loaded, unless it's raining like hell and the stockpile is saturated, then it'll pump.
 
I read most of this thread, but might have missed something.

Watch this video and consider putting some layers of fabric down between the layers of sand.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0olpSN6_TCc

I just watched this video, and yes that method will work too, but geotextile fabric isn't cheap. I'm doing a major project near the local airport covering 5 acres with nonwoven fabric right now. That could surely help your compaction, but the method I mentioned in last post, basically building a dam around your pad with dirt that sticks together better, will provide similar results and you have the soil stockpiled anyway, so use it. When I do high lifts like that for a section of a parking lot or building pad, I use the stripped off topsoil from clearing the actual pad or lot, and as I said use it to dam up the sand I haul in so it can't keep settling outwards.
 
I just watched this video, and yes that method will work too, but geotextile fabric isn't cheap. I'm doing a major project near the local airport covering 5 acres with nonwoven fabric right now. That could surely help your compaction, but the method I mentioned in last post, basically building a dam around your pad with dirt that sticks together better, will provide similar results and you have the soil stockpiled anyway, so use it. When I do high lifts like that for a section of a parking lot or building pad, I use the stripped off topsoil from clearing the actual pad or lot, and as I said use it to dam up the sand I haul in so it can't keep settling outwards.

Thank you very much for your input, what you say makes sense and is pretty much what I'm doing.
Regarding the fabric, looks very interesting but it makes me nervous to use something "creative" for this. I'd rather keep in conventional and not be able to build as close to the edge then to risk some unknown side effect of the fabric, mostly due to the risk of me not installing it right.

I'm up to 500 yards hauled and compacted now, ended up expanding the fill area a bit more and happened a big burn pit's remains that I had to dig out and refill with sand. Lot's of metal appliances and car parts. I even found a Ford catalytic converter which was odd since this house was built in '76.

I can now back the dump truck fully loaded over 75% of the site and I've got a surplus 9hp fire pump going to wet it down. It has been dry and warm here and it was getting impossible to keep the sand wet to the point of puddles with my harbor freight sprinkler pump. Even at idle it moves a butt load of water. While driving my loaded pickup back and forth I just let it idle and keep the ruts flooded. Clean sand like this is best compacted when either completely saturated or bone dry.
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I'm getting sick and tired of pulling the plate compactor around for 2 hours every time I lift 3" so I'm going to build a larger plate compactor for the 3pt of my tractor. Wish I'd done it from the beginning.

My routine now is
1) Dump 30-50 yards of sand
2) Spread it 3-4" thick
3) Soak it with ~25,000 gallons of water
4) Drive back and forth over everything with 10k lb pickup twice, criss crossing
5) Soak with 12,000 gallons of water
6) Drive back and forth with dump truck loaded to 50klbs over as much as possible
7) Smooth out ruts with loader bucket on tractor
8) Driver samurai over it to pack down fluff from smoothing
9) Hose it down again till puddles start forming
10) Spend 2-4 hrs on the plate compactor
11) Bring a little topsoil to the edges to hold sand back.
repeat


After this routine the 120psi dump truck drive tires only make 1/2" or so ruts when I back up to dump the next round of fill. I'm spending extra time with the pickup and the plate at the low edges where I can't get the dump truck to yet but after another lift or two the grade should be low enough I can get the truck on everything. The dump truck burns a ton of gas doing the packing, pretty much WOT in reverse and forward kneeding the sand at 1/2mph for a half hour.
 
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My routine now is
1) Dump 30-50 yards of sand
2) Spread it 3-4" thick
3) Soak it with ~25,000 gallons of water
4) Drive back and forth over everything with 10k lb pickup twice, criss crossing
5) Soak with 12,000 gallons of water
6) Drive back and forth with dump truck loaded to 50klbs over as much as possible
7) Smooth out ruts with loader bucket on tractor
8) Driver samurai over it to pack down fluff from smoothing
9) Hose it down again till puddles start forming
10) Spend 2-4 hrs on the plate compactor
11) Bring a little topsoil to the edges to hold sand back.
repeat

Soaking the absolute shit out of it will help a bunch on it's own. it will "wash" the grains of sand together kinda like wet sand at the beach where waves hit it compared to the dry sand past the waves. I don't know your time table for actually putting anything on this pad, or don't remember, i think you said it above, but soaking the hell out of it repeatedly will pack it for sure.
 
Soaking the absolute shit out of it will help a bunch on it's own. it will "wash" the grains of sand together kinda like wet sand at the beach where waves hit it compared to the dry sand past the waves. I don't know your time table for actually putting anything on this pad, or don't remember, i think you said it above, but soaking the hell out of it repeatedly will pack it for sure.

I read that soaking granular soils to the point of puddling would be best so that's what I've been doing. I almost drained the pond I am pulling from every lift till we started getting some rain again. I thought it would make it easier to get stuck but it really doesn't. Not like "mud" at all. Seems to be working but I really have to keep the hose moving to keep it soaking evenly. One-manning a 2.5" double jacket fire line and keeping the kink out for an hour is a workout though.
Planning on pouring concrete as soon as the ground thaws. Early June 2021 hopefully. If lumber prices haven't come down by then though I'll wait to pour the slab.
 
I read that soaking granular soils to the point of puddling would be best so that's what I've been doing. I almost drained the pond I am pulling from every lift till we started getting some rain again. I thought it would make it easier to get stuck but it really doesn't. Not like "mud" at all. Seems to be working but I really have to keep the hose moving to keep it soaking evenly. One-manning a 2.5" double jacket fire line and keeping the kink out for an hour is a workout though.
Planning on pouring concrete as soon as the ground thaws. Early June 2021 hopefully. If lumber prices haven't come down by then though I'll wait to pour the slab.

By June 2021 you'll have damn near 100% compaction whether you run that plate compactor over it anymore or not. Freeze/thaw will loosen the top little bit, but if you get it to grade and you can drive over it with a half loaded dump truck and it's not pumping, (ground goes down and comes back up like driving across a trampoline or mattress), the wheel hopping won't matter. You're golden.
 
Got about 750 yards hauled now, I'm out of topsoil to back it up and it's getting to be winter so I'll likely not get much done on it this year and try to slip the county another couple of 30 packs of busch to get another 200 yards of ditching material. I'd say another 100 yards of sand after that and I'll be GTG next spring. I'm able to get the fully loaded dump over the whole thing but holy cow does it go through a lot of gas doing the whole thing. Probably takes 5 gallons to run it over the entire site doing a 6" advance each pass.
I also finally cornered a local contractor who was using their Bomag with their logo on the side and they said they will come roll it for $125-$250 when they have a gap in their schedule so I told them to do that, just give me a heads up so I can wet it. Wish I'd found the right guy before. I tried calling their office this summer and they said they didn't have one, always rent. :rolleyes:
I'll have them come do it again next year when I get the site right up to where I want it.

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110320202.jpg
 
Looks good, and if that much of it is compacted already, you could strip away some of your outer "dam" and refill that with the loose sand, and use a thinner "dam" of the packable topsoil in between as the border for the pad, with more loose sand to keep your damn from falling over, assuming you aren't having to drive up the dam slope to get onto the pad. I hope that makes sense in text without drawing a picture.
 
If the contractor falls through, sunbelt has a 48" smooth drum for $235/day - and probably another $100 each way for delivery and pickup if you can't move it yourself.
 
Lol the op is up in god’s county. I’m sure the nearest sunbelt is probably the one in my town 200 miles away.
 
Sigh... I thought the hard part about building a new garage was going to be getting the money... Turns out the credit union couldn't write me a check fast enough. The Town was fine with size and where I want it, but I can't for the life of me find anyone to build the damn thing. I DO NOT have the skills to do it myself, at least not the site work and concrete, but I swear everyone comes out and looks at the 10% slope of yard I've got and says fuck that.

It's weird to have money in hand but no one seems to want to take it... Maybe it's a sign...

Good on you OP for doing this shit yourself.
 
Sigh... I thought the hard part about building a new garage was going to be getting the money... Turns out the credit union couldn't write me a check fast enough. The Town was fine with size and where I want it, but I can't for the life of me find anyone to build the damn thing. I DO NOT have the skills to do it myself, at least not the site work and concrete, but I swear everyone comes out and looks at the 10% slope of yard I've got and says fuck that.

It's weird to have money in hand but no one seems to want to take it... Maybe it's a sign...

Good on you OP for doing this shit yourself.

Interesting problem to have but I suppose it makes sense. Site work introduces unknowns and if they've already got simple jobs lined up to keep busy then they are going for those first. I'd say start on it yourself even if it takes longer. Lumber prices are still double what they should be for it to make sense to start building anything that's not critical IMHO. I'm not planning to borrow money for this so project is going to wait until lumber prices have calmed down a bit more, looks like things should be stabilized by spring.

Side note, it's pretty much winter here so I'm going to be turning the site in to an ice rink shortly.
 
Sigh... I thought the hard part about building a new garage was going to be getting the money... Turns out the credit union couldn't write me a check fast enough. The Town was fine with size and where I want it, but I can't for the life of me find anyone to build the damn thing. I DO NOT have the skills to do it myself, at least not the site work and concrete, but I swear everyone comes out and looks at the 10% slope of yard I've got and says fuck that.

It's weird to have money in hand but no one seems to want to take it... Maybe it's a sign...

Good on you OP for doing this shit yourself.

Interest rates are crazy low and people are building and renovating like mad, despite the whole pandemic and shut down thing. It's really mind boggling.

I've hear the same story from several people - can't even get contractors to come out to give a quote on work.

Depending on the terms of the loan, if you can sit on it for a while without drawing, there's got to be a crash coming. Contractors will get hungry and prices will drop.
 
Back at it! Finally got some time and rain about a month ago to start hauling and pounding fill again, hauled about 150 yards of sand. Also, last year I hauled in about 50 yards of topsoil/rocks that I've used to build up the edges.
It's getting better leveled out, and I "proofed" my "drive on everything with a fully loaded dump truck and then plate compactor in 2" lift method" of compaction after striking out with local bomag sources. My dump truck loaded to 24 tons or so doesn't really rut, at least under the drives.

Probably another foot average of fill and I think I'll be ready for it to set over winter and pour a slab in the spring.



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Called a couple places with Bomags again, got a hard "no" from one, the other said "we'll call you when we've got some down time". Hopefully I get a call back, but I think it's just too small of a job for anyone to want to mess with. I sent this to Panz already, and he also thinks it's overpriced. Log in or sign up to view
If I can get the guy to call me back and it's something I can haul behind a pickup, I might see if I can low ball him and try renting it out to others.
 
Called a couple places with Bomags again, got a hard "no" from one, the other said "we'll call you when we've got some down time". Hopefully I get a call back, but I think it's just too small of a job for anyone to want to mess with. I sent this to Panz already, and he also thinks it's overpriced. Log in or sign up to view
If I can get the guy to call me back and it's something I can haul behind a pickup, I might see if I can low ball him and try renting it out to others.
Dang, I've got an old one sitting here. Wish you were closer. Needs some work but it does work occasionally when I feed it enough ether to fire up lol.
 
just pour your floating slab extra thick with double rebar and it'll settle the sand on its own
might not end up perfectly level, but...
 
Talked to the guy with that towable unit. Says it's 6k or so lbs, no idea on compaction force. Used to have wheels that would attach to you could pull it down the road with a pickup, under 6' wide without wheels. He used it with 10" lifts and pulled it with a dozer, worked well. Nice guy, I hate to offer what I'd be willing to pay. I'm thinking its more of a $1500 unit, am I off base?
 
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