Interesting phenomena in an old ford edge

[gladman]

One of my daughter's first car was a 2010 Ford Edge. We bought it 2 years old and she used it through college, we gave her a prius (she was living in LA commuting at the time) for graduation from college and we got the edge back. Another daughter drove it for about 3 months, then my son totaled his truck and, we let him drive the Edge through college and after until he was gifted (by a relative) a Toyota Tacoma (nice gift!) We got the Edge back and it had a lot of little things fucked up from kids using the car. It was still in good shape overall, so, I fixed it up and redid the front seats and I started driving it to work (hour commute) every day to save wear and tear on my truck.

About 2 years ago, I hit 200k miles. I had a full tuneup done, new serpentine belt, new battery and I discovered the harness had issues, so I bought a new one and installed it. New tires, shocks, and some other items to get it just right for commuting.

It has been bullet proof.

Til last week. The battery light came on and since the battery was still pretty new, after looking at the serpentine belt (which looks great) I figured it was probably the alternator. I looked on youtube and the hassle to do the alternator for me was not worth it, so I called a mechanic I know and took it to him.

He calls me back and says, 'it is the battery not the alternator' I shrug and say, 'well, okay' and I get a replacement battery.

The next day, I'm driving and the battery light comes back on. I call him and he says 'bring it over' he looks at it and tests the output volts on the alternator and says, 'it is all working fine.' I ask him if it is okay to drive with battery light on and he says, 'yeah.'

I drive it friday and then this morning I hop in to head to work. Battery light comes on about mile 5. I remind myself not to sweat it.... as I keep going, after about 25 miles, more lights are coming on, then my speedometer and tach stop working. I am ready for the 'lost power' call tow truck moment.

Then all the lights start flashing wildly, I can hear the doors locking and unluckily lights goin on and going off and then the entire cluster goes dead.

Car still running. I"m about 5 miles from work. I am waiting for the car to die, but it doesn't... instead.... the cluster flashes a few times and..... all systems normal!

I drive the remaining distance to work and all good. I turn the car off and then restart it without issue.

Okay, so at lunch I go out and fire the car up annnnnnnnnnnddddd it fires right up, but battery icon back on....

I ordered a better OBDII device, should be here tomorrow...

 

[MuntCuffin]

Ford has started using "smart charge" alternators, controlled by the pcm, i believe.

When its doing that funky shit, I'd check voltage at the 2 smaller wires going to the alt. Not sure what they should be, but they shouldn't be dead, I don't think.

Wonder if you have a pcm failing.

Check grounds as well.

 

[Void_of_Light]

I'd take it to another place and have the Alt checked again. My friend went through a similar issue with his truck. He put 3 rebuilt alternators on it and they all failed within a month. Ponied up for a new one and so far, it's been good for several months.

 

[bigun]

Years ago I had problem with my starter " rebuilt" ones were failing every couple of months my dispatcher told me to go to parts house the company bought from and buy a new one using the company tax account. I never had anymore problems

 

[MuntCuffin]

Copypasta:

System operation: The PCM controlled Smart Charge charging system determines the optimal voltage setpoint for the charging system and communicates this information to the voltage regulator.

The Smart Charge charging system is designed to set a DTC when a charging system fault is present. All of the DTC can set continuous faults, but not all DTCs set as on-demand faults. The smart regenerative charge system primary strategy is stored in the BCM. The BCM receives information relating to the battery condition from the battery monitoring sensor via a LIN. The BCM calculates and sends the set value needed for the generator charging voltage via the HS-CAN to the PCM. The PCM then adjusts the value received (if necessary) and sends it to the generator via a different LIN. The charging voltage is adjusted depending on various parameters, such as the current level of engine efficiency.

The smallest possible set value for the generator voltage is 12.2 volts, while the maximum charging voltage can be anywhere between 14.5 and 14.9 volts. However, when the battery is in a refresh phase, the voltage may occasionally reach up to 15.2 volts. These refresh phases are required when the battery charge status is 80% over long periods of time, which increases the risk of sulfation in the battery cells. The PCM simultaneously controls and monitors generator output. When the current consumption is high or the battery is discharged, the PCM raises engine speed as needed to increase generator output. The generator charges the battery and at the same time supplies power for all electrical loads.

The battery is more effectively charged with a higher voltage when the battery is cold and a lower voltage when the battery is warm. The PCM turns off the generator during cranking to reduce the generator load and improve cranking speed. Once the engine starts, the PCM slowly increases generator output to the desired voltage.

The PCM reports any charging system faults and sends a message through the HS-CAN to the BCM. The BCM then sends a message over the MS-CAN to the IPC, which controls the charging system warning indicator. The status of the PCM charging system warning indicator message can be confirmed by viewing the PCM Generator Fault Indicator Lamp (GENFIL) PID. Any charging system fault detected by the PCM results in 1 or more Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs) being set and the GENFIL PID having a status of ON. If equipped with a charging system warning indicator, the IPC turns the indicator on or off. If equipped with a message center, the IPC displays the corresponding message to notify the driver of the condition.

Under certain circumstances, the charging system may have a concern but still keeps the battery charged while the vehicle is running. The LIN is normally used to initiate charging, but with a fault in this circuit the generator self-excites or begins charging on its own. The charging system warning indicator is illuminated and/or the corresponding message to notify the driver of the condition is displayed and the generator operates in a default mode (approximately 13.5 volts). This vehicle is equipped with an Electrical Energy Management system which manages battery charging and monitors the battery state of charge.

The Electrical Energy Management system also utilizes a load shed strategy to help control discharge of the battery and prevent, when possible, an excessively low battery state of charge. The BCM uses a battery monitoring sensor to monitor the battery state of charge.

The Generator current sensor and Battery current sensor serve as inputs to the Electrical Energy Management system software. If the sensors malfunction due to wiring issues or failure, a DTC will be set. In most cases the Electrical Energy Management system functions will be turned off until the sensor operation is restored. To maintain correct operation of the load shed system, any electrical devices or equipment must be grounded to the chassis ground and not the negative battery terminal. A connection to the negative battery terminal causes an inaccurate measurement of the battery state of charge and incorrect load shed system operation due to the current being used bypassing the battery monitoring sensor. Refer to the Battery Monitoring Sensor component description in this section.

Battery State of Charge: The battery monitoring system charges the battery current flow and voltage to determine the battery state of charge. During the drive cycle the battery monitorning system software monitors the charge and discharge current and increases the state of charge during charging, and decreasing it during discharge. During rest periods (key off with no electrical loads) when the vehicle enters sleep mode, the battery voltage is sampled to calibrate the state of charge.

The sensor automatically executes this calibration anytime the vehicle enters sleep mode and when the total vehicle current draw is below 400mA. It takes 4 to 6 hours in the sleep mode to calibrate the battery state of charge to high accuracy. If the system draw does not allow the battery state of charge calibration over the previous 7 to 10 days the state of charge quality factor changes to flag this and some battery monitoring system functions, which rely on the accuracy of the battery state of charge, may be temporarily turned off until a calibration takes place.
NOTE:Any devices left attached to the power socket that draw in excess of 200mA (or less depending on other battery loads), prevents a battery monitoring sensor from calibrating the battery state of charge.

 

[blay127]

theres several youtube videos of similar issues and all led back to the "smart" alternator. Will act normal for most of the time and give mechanics the all clear, but during certain conditions it trips out. need a scope to monitor it. my mom's edge was acting funny with charging/battery lights. i replaced the alternator and its been good for several months now. hopefully its that simple for you as well.

 

[gladman]

you guys are awesome. I am going to pursue the brand new alternator and hopefully not look back. if not, the pcm as well.

 

[PAE]

If you are buying rebuilt alternators they are most likely chink built and chink labor is bottom of the barrel quality.

Spend the extra $$$ and get a new ford alternator with a warranty.


Have been out of the auto electric business for like 5-6 years but the chink alternators have been the majority of alternators that are being sold by all of the auto parts stores and its a known fact that chinese labor is shit..

And just about all car / truck parts these days are chinese.

 

[NT2HLBLY]

It is possible that the altinator is passing AC current. The diode is not dead yet but dying. The amount of AC current can be checked with a volt meter under load. I don't remember the threshold for to much but the PCM does not like AC.

 

[bad zuki]

Had the exact same thing happen to a new van. 2 Alternators, New Battery, and a New PCM and the customer took the it to the dealer. Turned out to be the PCM all along and GM programed the NEW PCM wrong.

 

[Filthy McChevy]

If you are buying rebuilt alternators they are most likely chink built and chink labor is bottom of the barrel quality.

Spend the extra $$$ and get a new ford alternator with a warranty.


Have been out of the auto electric business for like 5-6 years but the chink alternators have been the majority of alternators that are being sold by all of the auto parts stores and its a known fact that chinese labor is shit..

And just about all car / truck parts these days are chinese.

The expensive as fuck ($220.00) rebuilt alternator from Oreillys in my 91 Cam ry (gotta pronounce it in Baby talk) and the replacement I got for it free with limited lifetime warranty after it crapped out in year 3 were made in Meh hee co.