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I'm teaching myself to tune GM Gen 4 V8 engines w/ HP Tuners

zlathim

This was all my idea
Joined
May 19, 2020
Member Number
131
Messages
260
Loc
Boise
Specifically, my 2010 Camaro SS. It is a 6.2L LS3 with a manual 6 speed transmission. If you dont want to read techincal details, specs, etc, back out now.


To hit the highlights, the car has a cold air intake (wow!), headers (double wow!) a cam (even better wow!) and 4.10 rear differential gears, up from the 3.45 stock arrangement ( I just jizzed level of wow!). It has a GPI LS3 SS2 camshaft with related valvetrain mods. Springs, hardened pushrods, solid trunnion bushings, etc.

The base tune that I was working with was provided by GPI, who sold me the camshaft and a bunch of other shit, including the HP tuners hardware. I bought all this several years ago. I have the MPVI2 version of HP tuners. The remote tune that I bought was supplied in .hpt format, for whatever that is worth. But just purchasing the HP Tuners hardware isn't the end of the expense. I also found out that I needed to purchase 2 $50 credits in order to modify the tune on my Camaro. That stuck in my craw, but whatever.

I should probably mention here that when I was building this car 3 years ago, I installed an AEM wideband gauge/controller and set it up for a serial to USB connector arrangement to connect to the laptop. Apparently, you need a driver to run serial to USB, which was one of the many hurdles my tech-challenged ass had in this endeavor.

Anyway, I had all the hardware and related components on the car for a couple years at least, always intending to learn to tune someday. Well, I finally decided to give it a go a couple of weeks ago. I started by watching a bunch of "Goat Rope Garage" videos on YouTube. He has a lot of information about tuning GM vehicles, but he moves really fast and I had a hard time following him at first, especially when he was building histographs and getting the tune ready for datalogging. I had to watch them over and over whiile having my laptop open following along in the HP tuners software (free to download here: HP Tuners Software Downloads – HP Tuners) .

After about a week of watching Goat Rope Garage, I figured out how to get my wideband talking to HP Tuners (driver issue) and started to datalog. Then I built a tune that would make my car run on just the MAF sensor for air calculations, loaded it into the ECU, and started to log data. It turned out that the remote tune I bought is a MAF only tune. The volumetric efficiency tables weren't being used.

The first thing I learned, which coincidentally also happend to be the easiest thing to learn, and the first thing that needed to be done in the process, was tuning the MAF scale. The remote tune that I was running (which ran pretty good for the 18 months I ran it) was about 8% off on the MAF frequency scale. After logging and tuning 3 times, I had the MAF reading within 1% of the commanded AFR vs. wideband AFR (in lambda).

I mentioned before that the remote tune I bought was specifically MAF based, but I also wanted to tune the volumetric efficiency tables (actually virtual volumetric efficiency tables on the Gen 4 GM platform, but that's a conversation for another time). Because the tune was set up to run off the MAF, the VE tables were not even close. The car would run, but it would barely idle. It was super rich in the lower RPM ranges and lean up top ( I'm glad I took 4* of timing out before I started to datalog running strictly off the VE tables). I basically had to start from scratch. I'm only datalogging on the street and don't have a dyno at my disposal, so this process has been very time consuming. I feel like I'm about 1/2 way there after tuning for about 12 hours over the last two days.

When I get finished with the air, I will move on to the spark advance tables.

If anone here gives a fuck, I'll continue to post my progress. Questions, concerns, heartaches?
 
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Sounds like a cool thing to learn. I’m somewhat cuisines how you do it.
That's what I thought. I'm curious to learn too, but the learning curve is steep. I've got enough confidence to keep moving forward, but the thought of bricking my ECU or causing mechanical damage to the enigine is always in the back of my mind. I almost wish I have an old chevy truck to screw around with instead of my hotrod Camaro, but I figure now is the time to learn.
 
No questions yet, but I'll follow along. I'll be replacing the pooped L76 in my G8 with a reworked L9H when I have some time.
 
I am in. Going to be going down this road in the spring and trying to purchase the mvpi3 and aem 30-0334 x series wideband on any discount this week or around the holiday. Have a already tuned 03 c5z with a couple things done to it and it really needs cleaned up. Poor idle, eyes burning from it being so rich kinda thing. Needs more driveability and reliability.
 
i bought hp tuners years ago, still haven't learned it. so I'm following. i will be putting the cam in my caprice soon so i will force myself to learn it.
 
I’ve wondered about this too, but never played with it. Looks like the 3 camps are buying a tune from a trusted source, downloading a tune the could be solid or a 💣 , and then tuning it yourself.

It would be nice if the the programs displayed stuff like this, where safe fuel/timing values appear green, stuff that is pushing it is yellow, and stuff that will cause damage appears red.

F7D743AF-52AD-4553-A677-A4C1FA10C8BB.png


I’m learning how to operate my CNC and it’s easy to screw stuff up. Nothing like plunging a 1 1/8” diameter bit 1” deep into dried red oak at 25k rpm because you’re on the second level of the program rather than the first. :laughing:
 
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Hell yeah. Keep posting, I love this shit

My experience is with Megasquirt but my brother ran a 800whp turbo ls drag car self tuned on HP tuners. Wish I would have learned a bit more from him on that platform.
 
I bought Holley Terminator X.

Figure I'll let it sort itself out and I can still go in and mess around if I want.
 
I should probably mention here that when I was building this car 3 years ago, I installed an AEM wideband gauge/controller and set it up for a serial to USB connector arrangement to connect to the laptop. Apparently, you need a driver to run serial to USB, which was one of the many hurdles my tech-challenged ass had in this endeavor.

They make an OBD2 pass through gauge adapter for that very reason. Works amazing.

I bought Holley Terminator X.

Figure I'll let it sort itself out and I can still go in and mess around if I want.
It won't.
 
Specifically, my 2010 Camaro SS. It is a 6.2L LS3 with a manual 6 speed transmission. If you dont want to read techincal details, specs, etc, back out now.


To hit the highlights, the car has a cold air intake (wow!), headers (double wow!) a cam (even better wow!) and 4.10 rear differential gears, up from the 3.45 stock arrangement ( I just jizzed level of wow!). It has a GPI LS3 SS2 camshaft with related valvetrain mods. Springs, hardened pushrods, solide trunnion bushings, etc.

The base tune that I was working with was provided by GPI, who sold me the camshaft and a bunch of other shit, including the HP tuners hardware. I bought all this several years ago. I have the MPVI2 version of HP tuners. The remote tune that I bought was supplied in .hpt format, for whatever that is worth. But just purchasing the HP Tuners hardware isn't the end of the expense. I also found out that I needed to purchase 2 $50 credits in order to modify the tune on my Camaro. That stuck in my craw, but whatever.

I should probably mention here that when I was building this car 3 years ago, I installed an AEM wideband gauge/controller and set it up for a serial to USB connector arrangement to connect to the laptop. Apparently, you need a driver to run serial to USB, which was one of the many hurdles my tech-challenged ass had in this endeavor.

Anyway, I had all the hardware and related components on the car for a couple years at least, always intending to learn to tune someday. Well, I finally decided to give it a go a couple of weeks ago. I started by watching a bunch of "Goat Rope Garage" videos on YouTube. He has a lot of information about tuning GM vehicles, but he moves really fast and I had a hard time following him at first, especially when he was building histographs and getting the tune ready for datalogging. I had to watch them over and over whiile having my laptop open following along in the HP tuners software (free to download here: HP Tuners Software Downloads – HP Tuners) .

After about a week of watching Goat Rope Garage, I figured out how to get my wideband talking to HP Tuners (driver issue) and started to datalog. Then I built a tune that would make my car run on just the MAF sensor for air calculations, loaded it into the ECU, and started to log data. It turned out that the remote tune I bought is a MAF only tune. The volumetric efficiency tables weren't being used.

The first thing I learned, which coincidentally also happend to be the easiest thing to learn, and the first thing that needed to be done in the process, was tuning the MAF scale. The remote tune that I was running (which ran pretty good for the 18 months I ran it) was about 8% off on the MAF frequency scale. After logging and tuning 3 times, I had the MAF reading within 1% of the commanded AFR vs. wideband AFR (in lambda).

I mentioned before that the remote tune I bought was specifically MAF based, but I also wanted to tune the volumetric efficiency tables (actually virtual volumetric efficiency tables on the Gen 4 GM platform, but that's a conversation for another time). Because the tune was set up to run off the MAF, the VE tables were not even close. The car would run, but it would barely idle. It was super rich in the lower RPM ranges and lean up top ( I'm glad I took 4* of timing out before I started to datalog running strictly off the VE tables). I basically had to start from scratch. I'm only datalogging on the street and don't have a dyno at my disposal, so this process has been very time consuming. I feel like I'm about 1/2 way there after tuning for about 12 hours over the last two days.

When I get finished with the air, I will move on to the spark advance tables.

If anone here gives a fuck, I'll continue to post my progress. Questions, concerns, heartaches?
You may find out if your open loop runs bad, your going to have to do your VVE table , then maf. I know I did. Yes, VVE is in play also with gen 4 tuning when running a maf.
 
I started in on this stuff when there was only LS1 Edit. Was too scared to fuck anything up on my cars, so I just let the "pros" do it. A lot of my friends at the time were playing around with tuning as well.

I really wanna learn this stuff though.
 
The whole credits thing is odd but the way they do it. I need to buy 4 I think for my Tundra.
I'm wanting to put a Harrop supercharger on it so I've been studying.
Happy to follow along
 
I did a Megasquirt on my shitty old truck. Its been a learning experience.

I have 6 things to say:

1. SAVE SAVE SAVE. SAVE EVERY FAWKING FILE.
2. ONE CHANGE AT A TIME. Increments FTW.
3. Get a notebook and detail your changes and which files its saved under. I'll data log on a trip and then I'll make a new tune. Then I'll forget to upload it. Or I'll wonder when I've made changes, etc. Having a log in a notebook is crucial.
4. Dedicated laptop. I use my laptop for everything so its kinda a hassle to unplug it from the dock and take it out to the garage. So then I do less tuning.
5. Tune the main maps during the summer. Winter tuning is all kinds of fuckery and warm up tuning can throw you off.
6. Live tuning. Have someone drive your shit while you sit in the passenger seat and make adjustments on the fly. You can get more done in a 30 minute drive vs data logging and then changing the tune back at the garage.

Overall do it. If you can tune and know how EFI works, you'll become a wizard. And wizards are cool.
 
I've been using hptuners for 10 years or so and its the right tool for the job. My only caution is to avoid updating it. Over the past few years they have been removing features due to epa concerns. On the most recent version you have to go through an online training program to get a code that allows you to do what you usually need to do.
The hptuners forums are very useful.
 
They changed their business model.
Cheaper price for the MPVI, they sell the first credits separate now.
That sucks. Interestingly enough, when I upgraded to the wireless format, they reset all my credits.

I don't like that I have to have it cabled to write, though.
 
Lol they fuck up a lot


How do you want that to work? WIFI? (I'm legit asking, cause some ECUs will work remotely)
All my writes have to be via USB cable.

WIFI or Bluetooth writes would be awesome, but I was told cable by design, so you don't lose connectivity and brick the ecm.
 
I was gonna say, that's the reason that very few manufacturers enable that possibility.

Bluetooth is usually not even an option.
 
I was gonna say, that's the reason that very few manufacturers enable that possibility.

Bluetooth is usually not even an option.
Eh, it's not the OEM's doing it, it's HPTuners.

I can read via Bluetooth. The ECM has no idea how the dongle is connected.
 
Eh, it's not the OEM's doing it, it's HPTuners.
That's what I meant.
The manufacturers of tuning solutions don't want to enable wireless write because they know that people will fuck it up and complain about bricked ECUs
 
Terminator X Max here and although it's different anything learned from your endeavors is a good thing and vice versa in my world. So I'll be tagging along for the ride to see if I can pick up tidbits here and there.

And I hear you about watching the videos and having to re-watch multiple times to understand what they're doing and why.
 
I’m interested! I’ve got a magnacharger I wanna put on my truck. Anyone used LSdroid?
 
This is great I will be following along. I've got a gen 3 6.0 LQ4 going into my 63 Nova. I had $150 tunes do a basic can tune and delete Vats 2nd O2's etc, but since then I bought a SS2 cam for it. I wonder if they have a tune for that cam? It is very popular.
 
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