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iBooster Electric Brake Booster

chaplinfj60 said:
so you just downloaded this and put into what ever cad software and exported it as a stl for a 3d printer? was it that simple?
Click to expand...
Correct.

And if you don't have CAD I can export it as a STL for you, maybe update that model now that I have the 3D scan too.
 
snivilous said:
Correct.

And if you don't have CAD I can export it as a STL for you, maybe update that model now that I have the 3D scan too.
Click to expand...
either way is cool. i have solid works for makers and i struggle using it but i can figure out how to export as a stl pretty easy. but thanks again. and that is just gen 2 correct?
 
chaplinfj60 said:
either way is cool. i have solid works for makers and i struggle using it but i can figure out how to export as a stl pretty easy. but thanks again. and that is just gen 2 correct?
Click to expand...
In that case yea, just open it then save as .stl. Correct it's the Gen2 with the car master on the end. That model is pretty close, but it's not identical to the real thing since I just used a tape measure to approximate everything.
 
snivilous said:
In that case yea, just open it then save as .stl. Correct it's the Gen2 with the car master on the end. That model is pretty close, but it's not identical to the real thing since I just used a tape measure to approximate everything.
Click to expand...
but it will be perfect for getting an idea of how it will sort out.
 
chaplinfj60 said:
i am a long ways away from that. would be cool just to have a mock up piece to toss in the location and get an idea super awesome and thanks
Click to expand...

I borrowed White Rhino's 3D printed booster and it was great for that. Once I knew it should be able to fit, I went and grabbed the real part. No regerts.
 
awesome. and still up in the air after reading this thing about 3 times in the last two days about small MC or go with the big ford one. i too am running 2006 SD front axle. and 14 bolt. so having the ford MC mock up in there will be help full for sure'
 
JohnnyJ said:
snivilous - last update you mentioned a "wall" with the F250 master. Any update on that, or not enough of a big deal to chase?
Click to expand...
Can't say, I went to the larger master, did 10 miles of racing and broke and parked it until a week ago :grinpimp: I'll have it out wheeling and some crawling for the first time since the master swap in a week or two and give an update on how it feels in the rocks.
 
snivilous said:
Gumbybronco

19+ superduty master mates to the iBooster. Excuse some of the jank, still test fitting things.

PXL_20240601_173642894.jpg


3/8" spacer (3x 1/8" spacers in my case) sets the master back to the correct spot

PXL_20240601_173645713.jpg


The studs on the ibooster are too short though, and seemingly go through the entire thing so can't be pressed out and replaced easily. I put a threaded spacer onto the studs, but that's then too big for the master so I drilled the ears on the master to 5/8". And since I'm just janking it together and the spacer sat proud, I threw some oversized nuts on and then a bolt threads into the spacer to clamp the master down....
Click to expand...

Someone mentioned that it was "difficult" to adjust the pushrod length in a iBooster, which is what I'm guessing you're getting around here... Is that to say that it is impossible to adjust the pushrod length, or that it's just too tricky a job (requires disassembly etc)?
 
iti_uk said:
Someone mentioned that it was "difficult" to adjust the pushrod length in a iBooster, which is what I'm guessing you're getting around here... Is that to say that it is impossible to adjust the pushrod length, or that it's just too tricky a job (requires disassembly etc)?
Click to expand...
There's no way to adjust it without taking it apart as far as I know, which I haven't fucked with. As I recall the SuperFastMatt video on the 1st post of this thread he disassembles the iBooster if you want to go that route, but as Winchested said you probably will still need to fabricate a solution.

I would think cutting it and/or running a die over it to turn it into a stud would be a good solution.
 
snivilous said:
There's no way to adjust it without taking it apart as far as I know, which I haven't fucked with. As I recall the SuperFastMatt video on the 1st post of this thread he disassembles the iBooster if you want to go that route, but as Winchested said you probably will still need to fabricate a solution.

I would think cutting it and/or running a die over it to turn it into a stud would be a good solution.
Click to expand...
That's exactly how I did my 2005 hydroboost as the rod is staked in and not removable.
 
BTW, the guy that does the controller (for hill hold control?) posted CAD files:

sghinnovations.com

Documentation - SGH Innovations

sghinnovations.com sghinnovations.com

Also some really good info:

docs.google.com

Tesla iBooster Gen 2 User Manual

Tesla iBooster Gen2 User Manual V0.2 - 20/03/24 - Seb Smith Hardware A CAD model of the Model 3 RHD iBooster can be downloaded from here. The ibooster can operate in any direction, however if keeping the original fluid reservoir it must by tilted 12 degrees axially and 5 degrees pitch up. The ...
docs.google.com docs.google.com

white-rhino said:
Maybe I missed it. Is there an advantage to the gen1 or gen2?
Click to expand...
Gen 1 is a 300w motor, Gen 2 is a 450W motor and smaller.
 
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snivilous said:
There's no way to adjust it without taking it apart as far as I know, which I haven't fucked with. As I recall the SuperFastMatt video on the 1st post of this thread he disassembles the iBooster if you want to go that route, but as Winchested said you probably will still need to fabricate a solution.

I would think cutting it and/or running a die over it to turn it into a stud would be a good solution.
Click to expand...
Ah okay. In the spirit of keeping each element "off-the-shelf", I guess that leaves me with using a spacer. Thanks.

Also, that linked document that Grendel put up is very specific to a particular Gen2-master combo without stating that it is. The Gen2 doesn't have ports, M12 or otherwise. The master cylinder does and that's pretty much independent of the iBooster and different in each application. Even the Gen2 iBooster is different out of each source - the bulkhead mounting studs are vehicle-specific, and the drive motor and controller orientation differs too. Love the idea of the document, but it should be accurate.

Chris
 
iti_uk said:
Ah okay. In the spirit of keeping each element "off-the-shelf", I guess that leaves me with using a spacer. Thanks.

Also, that linked document that Grendel put up is very specific to a particular Gen2-master combo without stating that it is. The Gen2 doesn't have ports, M12 or otherwise. The master cylinder does and that's pretty much independent of the iBooster and different in each application. Even the Gen2 iBooster is different out of each source - the bulkhead mounting studs are vehicle-specific, and the drive motor and controller orientation differs too. Love the idea of the document, but it should be accurate.

Chris
Click to expand...
That doc is specific to a Tesla, as stated. It's the reason I bought one.
 
irate4x4.com

Johnny's Goatbuilt JHF buggy build

Is that the extruded type fuel rail? That's an interesting idea. This makes me wonder if I might go with a stock LS2 set of fuel rails. Yeah, at that point we were using the extruded aluminum rails. We later changed from a Camaro intake to a truck intake and changed to modified stock truck...
irate4x4.com irate4x4.com
 
JohnnyJ said:
snivilous - last update you mentioned a "wall" with the F250 master. Any update on that, or not enough of a big deal to chase?
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Did a bunch of crawling today, I definitely like the F250 master more but feel like I have some kinks to work out. I still have the wall feeling, I suspect it's the master bottoming out I'm feeling but I plan to do some diagnostics later this week to figure it out. I bought a brake pressure gauge so will do some testing and more measuring of everything.

In NEUTRAL I had plenty of braking power, I could be on a super steep face and lock up the tires fine. Having it in gear on a steep face there wasn't enough braking (6.7 LS stroker at idle with a 4L80e and 3:1 case). I'm hoping I just need to bleed the brakes better. I can lock up the brakes in gear on level ground, though I wish there was a bit more power behind it.

The F250 master has to have enough flow, and since the pedal feels pretty linear on effort until the wall that's why I think it's the master bottoming. The pedal effort isn't super high and there's plenty of travel, so the fact there's not a lot of pressure (seemingly) I think would mean it's a bleeding issue? Though the brakes don't seem spongy so.... I'll plug in the pressure tester and see what's happening.
 
snivilous said:
In NEUTRAL I had plenty of braking power, I could be on a super steep face and lock up the tires fine. Having it in gear on a steep face there wasn't enough braking (6.7 LS stroker at idle with a 4L80e and 3:1 case). I'm hoping I just need to bleed the brakes better. I can lock up the brakes in gear on level ground, though I wish there was a bit more power behind it.
Click to expand...
your torque converter is wrong

snivilous said:
The F250 master has to have enough flow, and since the pedal feels pretty linear on effort until the wall that's why I think it's the master bottoming. The pedal effort isn't super high and there's plenty of travel, so the fact there's not a lot of pressure (seemingly) I think would mean it's a bleeding issue? Though the brakes don't seem spongy so.... I'll plug in the pressure tester and see what's happening.
Click to expand...
I have the same problem. Did you use a new master?
 
snivilous said:
It is a stock converter so would make sense. The converter is just grabbing too much at idle?
Click to expand...
:eek:
Yeah you're fucking yourself up hard with that.

You won't believe how much power is left on the table, and with the correct converter and it won't push at idle.

snivilous said:
eBay used master.
Click to expand...
Same here and I'm not convinced it's good.
 
Bebop said:
your torque converter is wrong
Click to expand...
Obviously, different set ups will work better with different ranges, but out of curiosity what stall speed do you run on your TC?
 
Haven't put much brain power into this, just came in from the shop and measuring stuff.

The booster seems to move at 1:1 between the input and output shafts, this was my understanding that the motor applied assistance but didn't amplify the motion but I wanted to verify that. The booster total motion possible is ~2.0". The F250 master total motion seems to be at least 1.75" based on my dissected parts and just pressing down on the pistons.

1730165433148.png


Master piston nominal position on the one installed:

1730165469863.png


I am getting 0.625" of motion at the iBooster input shaft when I feel the "wall". Pressing as hard as I possibly can I get about 0.875" of motion. My pedal setup is a bit odd, but based on my pedal motion of 2.25" at the wall, and ~2.75" at full force, that's a motion ratio of ~3.1 to ~3.6x how I had it configured.

There's not easy access with the pressure tester I got for the front calipers, so I plugged into a rear. This is "normal" force before the wall (~725psi):

1730165724083.png


This is at the "wall" when the force/motion required jumps up considerably (also ~725psi):

1730165746140.png


And this is full force pushing as hard as I can (~1350psi):

1730165794752.png


After this I extended the brake pedal down by 1.0" (albeit I did NOT measure the motion ratio, so the increase could be anything) and the full force pressure was (~1575psi):

1730165847370.png



The brake pressure tester came with a sheet and said the front discs they recommend spiking to 1000-1200psi, and rear discs 800-1000psi. Dragzine article says 1000-1200psi, Motortrend article says 1400psi with power assist. TBM brake article says 950-1000psi nominal and spiking to 1400-1500psi. Granted, this is all for street recommendations.

Conclusions: There might not be anything wrong with my brakes at all? Maybe the entirety of my issue is what Bebop said and it's just the torque converter overpowering the brakes. I know brake pads make a big difference, so I should probably invest in something good instead of whatever shit I got from NAPA or whatever I have. I also think going to the higher motion ratio will help, that will push the "wall of effort" a bit closer to the 1000psi mark. I also plan to take off one of the front calipers to get a measurement of the front brake pressure just to confirm there's nothing wrong with it.

At the end of the day, I suspect there's nothing inherently wrong with the brakes and just a combination of multiple factors that just eased it over the edge of being able to lock it up on a steep face in low range: a fairly low motion ratio, a torque converter that isn't unlocking enough at idle, and shitty brake pads.
 
Sean said:
Obviously, different set ups will work better with different ranges, but out of curiosity what stall speed do you run on your TC?
Click to expand...
There is a lot more to it than stall speed.
TC size is a big factor.

snivilous : could you measure the pedal travel with the new motion ratio?
 
snivilous said:
Haven't put much brain power into this, just came in from the shop and measuring stuff.

The booster seems to move at 1:1 between the input and output shafts, this was my understanding that the motor applied assistance but didn't amplify the motion but I wanted to verify that. The booster total motion possible is ~2.0". The F250 master total motion seems to be at least 1.75" based on my dissected parts and just pressing down on the pistons.

1730165433148.png


Master piston nominal position on the one installed:

1730165469863.png


I am getting 0.625" of motion at the iBooster input shaft when I feel the "wall". Pressing as hard as I possibly can I get about 0.875" of motion. My pedal setup is a bit odd, but based on my pedal motion of 2.25" at the wall, and ~2.75" at full force, that's a motion ratio of ~3.1 to ~3.6x how I had it configured.

There's not easy access with the pressure tester I got for the front calipers, so I plugged into a rear. This is "normal" force before the wall (~725psi):

1730165724083.png


This is at the "wall" when the force/motion required jumps up considerably (also ~725psi):

1730165746140.png


And this is full force pushing as hard as I can (~1350psi):

1730165794752.png


After this I extended the brake pedal down by 1.0" (albeit I did NOT measure the motion ratio, so the increase could be anything) and the full force pressure was (~1575psi):

1730165847370.png



The brake pressure tester came with a sheet and said the front discs they recommend spiking to 1000-1200psi, and rear discs 800-1000psi. Dragzine article says 1000-1200psi, Motortrend article says 1400psi with power assist. TBM brake article says 950-1000psi nominal and spiking to 1400-1500psi. Granted, this is all for street recommendations.

Conclusions: There might not be anything wrong with my brakes at all? Maybe the entirety of my issue is what Bebop said and it's just the torque converter overpowering the brakes. I know brake pads make a big difference, so I should probably invest in something good instead of whatever shit I got from NAPA or whatever I have. I also think going to the higher motion ratio will help, that will push the "wall of effort" a bit closer to the 1000psi mark. I also plan to take off one of the front calipers to get a measurement of the front brake pressure just to confirm there's nothing wrong with it.

At the end of the day, I suspect there's nothing inherently wrong with the brakes and just a combination of multiple factors that just eased it over the edge of being able to lock it up on a steep face in low range: a fairly low motion ratio, a torque converter that isn't unlocking enough at idle, and shitty brake pads.
Click to expand...

I'm with Bebop and I'd address your TC before doing anything else. I had a similar issue in my CJ5 where it just pushed through my brakes and I thought the brakes were the issue.
 
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