Hummer H3 Build

[06h3]

Since spring is here and summer is basically here I decided to throw the half doors on, we had many nice spring days so I would use the Hummer for grocery store runs and going to the gym just like I used to daily back in the old days!

The next 2 weekends were spent working on the truck but last weekend I went wheeling again to shakedown my buddy's toyota on 43s! He has the Chevy K30 but just picked up the fresh build with 1 tons, links and 43s on his old toyota. It is badass! The frame was cut off in front of the firewall and behind the cab, it was an extensive build.

My sister didnt start the day off well, she did so well last time I think she was over confident driving around in 2wd screwing around on a dirt road

I would say she learned quickly...or so I hope. She was almost too calm and that kind of irritated me, I wanted her to be scared shitless so she would not drive like an idiot.

Playing around on an optional obstacle on a warmup trail

Here is me doing the chicken dance I guess (?) while spotting my sister....

Since I put my half doors on it had to rain of course....

It reminded me of UA 2018 on the east coast, momentum and no crawling

Carnage for the day was a brake line issue but about 8 months ago I had some male brake line fittings laying around and just welded up the hole. It allowed me to disconnect the hardline at the brake booster and just plug the hole where I had the leak, it was a quick 5 min fix.

Already got the brake line replaced and rebled the brakes (which I hate doing!!!!) I thought I was ready to go wheeling again this weekend but noticed my 3rd leaf in my leaf pack cracked. I am just reposting a pic from after UA....last time it was a cheap add a leaf I did it to, now its an OE leaf.

Are my leaf spring days numbered and its time to link the back?

I have been happy with my leafs though, its amazing they are 16 years old and factory H3 springs. I have switched back and forth between 2 sets, one original to my H3 and the other is an OE set that was very well used as well.

That leaves me with a cracked add a leaf once, a ever so slightly bent main leaf once and now a bent support leaf.

 

[DMANbluesfreak]

I cracked a ~20 year old OE leaf that then took out ALL the other support leaves. I was left with only the main - that was a scary, slow drive home but I made it. I started carrying a spare main that could be cut into a support leaf and also did a lot of research. If you're still happy with the leaves, I might recommend you give ORD (for custom Alcan springs) a call or get in touch with Deaver. The lead times will be bananas right now, but they offer packs with thinner, but more leaves in them. These thinner leaves are less prone to stress fractures like what you saw above and should hopefully last longer. Plus they'll ride a bit better I'd guess. I'm rocking a used set of Alcans now that I got a few months ago and they are noticeably better than the OE springs despite not being 'tuned' for my truck (but it is from a similar truck).

Ultimately, the anti-wrap bar doesn't exactly lend itself to leaf longevity as at some point in the wheel travel, the springs aren't flexing perfectly (there'll be a forced "S" shape). That said, I think your leaves are lasting longer than without one, since the wheel hop would be even harder on them. I guess what I'm trying to say is that OE springs weren't ever designed for what we put them through, so a nice set of aftermarket springs would probably last you another decade or so. It's worth considering at least.

 

[06h3]

I cracked a ~20 year old OE leaf that then took out ALL the other support leaves. I was left with only the main - that was a scary, slow drive home but I made it. I started carrying a spare main that could be cut into a support leaf and also did a lot of research. If you're still happy with the leaves, I might recommend you give ORD (for custom Alcan springs) a call or get in touch with Deaver. The lead times will be bananas right now, but they offer packs with thinner, but more leaves in them. These thinner leaves are less prone to stress fractures like what you saw above and should hopefully last longer. Plus they'll ride a bit better I'd guess. I'm rocking a used set of Alcans now that I got a few months ago and they are noticeably better than the OE springs despite not being 'tuned' for my truck (but it is from a similar truck).

Ultimately, the anti-wrap bar doesn't exactly lend itself to leaf longevity as at some point in the wheel travel, the springs aren't flexing perfectly (there'll be a forced "S" shape). That said, I think your leaves are lasting longer than without one, since the wheel hop would be even harder on them. I guess what I'm trying to say is that OE springs weren't ever designed for what we put them through, so a nice set of aftermarket springs would probably last you another decade or so. It's worth considering at least.

Interesting, I would consider aftermarket leafs but at the same time I could probably link it for just as much by the time I get decent shocks and leafs. I then run into another problem which is fitting the damn coilovers. For now I will keep rocking the stock springs (already replaced it) and see what happens next.

 

[06h3]

So an update, I got the brake line fixed and the leaf spring fixed and hit the trail again.

We ran a tough local trail. We had 2 guys come down from Washington for the long 3 day weekend, I only was available to wheel on saturday so I did a day trip.

We started off on an easier but fun "OG" trail then went to one of the newer tough trails.

A SAS'd sidekick on 35s and toyota axles

the beast of a toyota

That is all I have for the first trail, it was fun and uneventful. The next trail was a little ways from the one we were at. Half the group trailered their rigs, hit the pavement and drove down to the new trail, we just took 7-8 miles of dirt roads to get there.

The trail starts off like this....

You know if a little toyota is rubbin, getting squeaky through is like fitting 30 lbs of shit in a 2lb bag. The exo has really saved this thing from becoming a POS tin can...Now its just a POS.

Once you get past that tight spot pictured above you come here...

This picture doesnt show the big holes but it shows you gotta go up, around that rock and out the top. You start on the right side, and come across as seen below. If you start far left your tire drops in the hole and you land on your axle tube.

Then you cut left, if you cut left too early your driver rear will lift and flop you over, so you go past the rock and shimmy over, it is very difficult for a bigger rig to shimmy over, I dont think I would have been able to do it without doing the front dig, a smaller rig like a wrangler can shimmy.

This is where it puts you after a front dig. At this point I have hit my cage about 5 times lol

Here are some other pics of the gatekeeper.

I think this puts it in perspective on how tight it is.

Lifting tire and where you front dig, I have about 8in of droop and still dont have all 4 on the ground.

That gatekeeper gets you all sorts of bound up, the toyota broke a main leaf, so we back the hummer up, break out the premier power welder, raise the idle and get to welding....

We didnt get a finished product pic on the trail but this is what we did, weld the main leaf to the 2nd leaf and hose clamps for moral support. it finished out the day with no issues!

 

[06h3]

Onto the next main obstacle.

Now the next obstacle...

There are a few line choices. Not shown is the ledge to get up to this point which took some effort.

Here is a shot of the 3 line choices.

The middle one was a no go for me, the toyota struggled on that one, the rear steer buggy and the little samuari buggy went right which, if I could get myself lined up on the rocks properly I think I would go that route, the left line looks easy but what isnt shown is a GIANT hole on the ride side, it swallows a 43in tire. It gave me flashbacks to Moab, super undercut, big giant hole that WILL destory a rear shaft, so I decided to climb over the giant hole instead of going into it.

It was sketchy but it worked! At this point last time I had already winched 2 times at the gatekeeper and then winched on this line, last time I went in the giant hole not over it.

I was pumped!

Here is the little sami buggy, it is so nimble and small it dances through these rocks with ease!

Then I got to this spot....

Last time I took the line on the opposite side of that bush, it has a tough climb but I did it last time. It felt sketchy and figured I would try this new line. It SUCKED! I kept getting diffed out, getting nowhere, reverse, forward, hard driver, hard passenger, nothing would work. Finally front dig, reverse, hard passenger got me free, only to get diffed out again!


So then I pulled cable....

Then off to this obstacle, had to winch last time but this time I walked it!

Exo savin the day....as it got tight in here too.

Overall, this was my only body damage...

The taillight was taken out, if it wasnt for the cage the roof line would be destroyed along with the B pillar and D pillar.

That is really only the halfway point on the trail but there is a turn out. No one has ever cut the trail further then that point....I had a bday dinner to get to and the toyota didnt want to risk the spring issue so we popped out there and the toyota, sami buggy and rear steer buggy continued on till 10pm. We got to that point around 6:30 pm. I aired up the tires and drove home under my own power!

 

[06h3]

Overall, I was stoked with how the Hummer did, it is no buggy but it I was so happy with its performance. One guys said he was shocked at how well it did and another said imagine what it could do with rear steer....

Rear steer, if used properly can do magical things, or screw you up but man....rear steer is tempting.

Here is a video of the day.

 

[DMANbluesfreak]

Links in the rear would certainly be better for rear steering angle if you do ever go that route.

Man, that video was awesome. Your rig did amazing on those tricky obstacles!

 

[06h3]

Links in the rear would certainly be better for rear steering angle if you do ever go that route.

Man, that video was awesome. Your rig did amazing on those tricky obstacles!

Thanks! The front dig really helped on a few of these.

I do have a question and maybe you can help here. I ran Johnny joints for years on my links. I started wearing them out quicker and quicker so I went to heims. Around that same time I removed my upper link bracket that I did on the SAS originally in 2014 and added an adjustable one to get more frame side seperation.

Long story short I have cracked the bracket a couple times now and it seems to happen when I am fully drooped out. I welded it back up each time. I am sure the 43s are putting a lot more load on everything but here is my question/theory?

The old setup, had the frame end lower, the upper link was damn near flat. the new link setup has the upper link at a downward angle at ride height, when drooping out I wonder if the angle is too severe and under load it is pushing the bracket up (cracks show upward force in my opinion)

Thoughts?

cracks are happening on the top of the link bracket where it welds to the frame, the bottom portion where it welds to the frame and the lower portion of the link hole bracket

 

[DMANbluesfreak]

Yeah it definitely is going to impart a force vector that is less in-line with the truck (AKA more force in the upward direction as you hypothesized). Pair that with being fully drooped and having more power and lower gears and bigger tires.... you get the picture. Remember the direction the axle wants to rotate when driving forward offroad and you'll see that the upper link is in compression, so it jives with your theory.

I'd probably recommend you redo the mount or at least reinforce it with something to better tie it into the 'cup' shape. I'd really like to see pictures of the crack/tear, because that would help us determine where the reinforcement should be.

Motobilt's for example, has a bit more tie-in for those vertical plates where I believe yours is tearing:

If you're going to go through the effort of redoing anything - do it better than this, though

 

[06h3]

Thanks for the input! I will try to get some pics, I did do a tie in off the crossmember but in the wrong direction.

 

[Bmxbry9]

Dude those trails are sick! Seeing the rig working is killer!

 

[06h3]

Dude those trails are sick! Seeing the rig working is killer!

Thanks!!!

 

[GGRR 4555]

So an update, I got the brake line fixed and the leaf spring fixed and hit the trail again.

We ran a tough local trail. We had 2 guys come down from Washington for the long 3 day weekend, I only was available to wheel on saturday so I did a day trip.

We started off on an easier but fun "OG" trail then went to one of the newer tough trails.

A SAS'd sidekick on 35s and toyota axles

the beast of a toyota

That is all I have for the first trail, it was fun and uneventful. The next trail was a little ways from the one we were at. Half the group trailered their rigs, hit the pavement and drove down to the new trail, we just took 7-8 miles of dirt roads to get there.

The trail starts off like this....

You know if a little toyota is rubbin, getting squeaky through is like fitting 30 lbs of shit in a 2lb bag. The exo has really saved this thing from becoming a POS tin can...Now its just a POS.

Once you get past that tight spot pictured above you come here...

This picture doesnt show the big holes but it shows you gotta go up, around that rock and out the top. You start on the right side, and come across as seen below. If you start far left your tire drops in the hole and you land on your axle tube.

Then you cut left, if you cut left too early your driver rear will lift and flop you over, so you go past the rock and shimmy over, it is very difficult for a bigger rig to shimmy over, I dont think I would have been able to do it without doing the front dig, a smaller rig like a wrangler can shimmy.

This is where it puts you after a front dig. At this point I have hit my cage about 5 times lol

Here are some other pics of the gatekeeper.

I think this puts it in perspective on how tight it is.

Lifting tire and where you front dig, I have about 8in of droop and still dont have all 4 on the ground.

That gatekeeper gets you all sorts of bound up, the toyota broke a main leaf, so we back the hummer up, break out the premier power welder, raise the idle and get to welding....

We didnt get a finished product pic on the trail but this is what we did, weld the main leaf to the 2nd leaf and hose clamps for moral support. it finished out the day with no issues!

Some wicked Hummer shots here!

 

[06h3]

I thought I would give an update, no pics but I took my brother wheeling when he was visiting up here. I took him on some easier trails and he said they were a good confidence builder since he hasnt been wheeling in 2 years and then gave me crap that they were too easy. Next time I will make sure to jack his day up.

I am going to do a round of TLC because I want to do some trails in the fall and try to get a week out at the hammers in October. It has been hot as hell here, like record breaking heat so I havent done much wheeling as of late.

I would like to get my currie anti rock sway bar done, replace my D60 front u joints since they are 4 year old spicers, repack wheel bearings, redo my suck down winch, reinforce/replace my upper 3rd link mount, rebuild my lower johnny joints and lastly the most miserable one yet. Driveshafts, I hate driveshafts, they are expensive and a disposable item for me (and I assume most) as they get hammered.

I plan to do another change in driveshafts which will cost me a ton in parts.

Front, I am going with a Toyota CV. I picked up one, and I found I can pull enough angle out of one to go back to a CV. I will do a toyota CV to a 1410 slip yoke. I will be using a NWF 30 spline Toyota triple drilled flange.

Rear. I have a 1410 single u joint on the t case end with a slip yoke up top and a 1350 single fixed yoke on the bottom at the axle.

I will use the 1410 single u joint on the axle end (so use the slip yoke down below now) and a 1350 CV up top. I ran single u joints on both ends of the rear for years. My angles were perfect and I had no vibes. Since doing the 205 doubler, my angles arent the same as they used to be and I get vibes at higher speeds. I have dealt with it for 2 years now but I am over it. So I ordered a 1410 Eaton HO72 yoke and I need to order a 32 spline 1350 CV Flange for the top.

I will ask for thick wall and hopefully this is the end of it.

 

[06h3]

Time for an update, I had 2 loose johnny joints (both lower axle ends) so I rebuilt those, I replaced my spicer u joints in my D60 shafts with new ones since they were in since 2017.

I also had bent my track bar a little. I already had a bend in it for diff clearance but I bent it a bit more when bound up. I was pretty surprised as its been problem free for about 4 years now but im sure the 43s dont make the track bars life any easier. I hate having to adjust it when there is a bend in it so I got one of those new ruffstuff adjusters that allow you to adjust links with bends in them.

I also added some plate to strengthen the bend in the track bar.

I am a little worried that welding in that track bar brace as it put a ton of heat in the tube and weakened it but who knows, I am probably overreacting.

You can also see the cool adjuster ruffstuff came out with.

I did the same for the drag link end since I have a bend in that too....

To have the axle centered I had to put the joint out this much. I am not sure if that has enough engagement.

The heim joint threaded portion is 2.1 in according to ruffstuff and they ask for 7/8 engagement on the weld in bung.

I have the threaded portion in at 1.25in and at 2.1 in that leaves me at .85in, they ask for 7/8 engagement.

The other side is threaded in just under 100%

The right answer is to pull it all apart and to pull some out on the traditional bung and bring the new bung in a tad but I am being lazy...I will probably do that another day.

I am super pumped to make able to make adjustments with little effort from now on though!

I also shipped out my toyota double cardan end to drivelinetech, hes building a toyota driveline for me with a 1410 joint on the axle end. I am using a NWF NP205 toyota flange, they ask for a 2.125 seal and of course my 205 has the smaller 1.75 seal, since I wanted to keep the same seal in case I have to put my old flange back in I had the flange seal surface turned down to 1.76.

I went to the junkayrd and picked up 3 sets of toyota driveline bolts. They are some crazy 12.9 super high strength stuff so I wanted OEM.

My only concern with the NWF flange is that it is 1/2in thick, I dont think the oem flange is that thick and I worry it will cause the bolts to be too short.

I will wait and see on that.

Finally, I picked up a 6l80E!!!

Driving my moms 08 Yukon XL denali 12 years ago I was amazed at how fast and how well that trans worked with the 6.2L It made that heavy SUV feel quick. I knew I needed one for the H3 and the time has finally come.

I still need more parts, a shifter, wiring, some tuning but I am pumped. I was told I can have it tuned to start in any gear I want when I have it in Manual mode. One thing I dont like about auto transmissions is even if you put it in 2 or 3 it always starts in 1. Now I can start in 3rd for wheel speed if I want. It should be awesome!

 

[pennsylvaniaboy]

curious on tuning.....I want to go auto, but the old th350/400 route seems to be dying.. but adding tunes to a 4l80/4l85/6l80, etc seems tricky?

 

[06h3]

curious on tuning.....I want to go auto, but the old th350/400 route seems to be dying.. but adding tunes to a 4l80/4l85/6l80, etc seems tricky?

I am unsure of who I will use yet. I am leaning towards zero gravity performance. I am also considering true blue motorsports or the guy who did my V8 engine swap harness.

I personally would never consider a TH400 or TH350 but understand why there is still a following.

from a tuning standpoint all I’m asking for is optimized yet OE like shift points when the trans is in D. When I put it to M, I want to be able to start in any gear. Even OE 6L80Es in M always start in 1st from what I remember. (Maybe someone can chime in on that) but they can tune it so if I am in M and hit the plus button to 4th gear I want to start in 4th gear. That will be the main portion of tuning.

I am not sold on the GM 8 or 10 speed yet, from what I have heard the 8 speed was a total pile of shit, the 10 speed is better but it’s pretty new.

if it was easy enough to adapt an 8HP70 from a Jeep, dodge or ram I would. The 8HP70 is stout as hell and everytime I drive a vehicle with the 8HP70 (not often) I am impressed.

so I settled on the 6L80E. They are stout, they have been around for a while, they solve my main problem, which is the 3-4 split. Your either screaming or lugging in my opinion. The 6L80E splits that gap and I personally have enjoyed driving vehicles with them.

Why would I stay away from the TH400 and TH350?

For the average person a 3 speed means you need to under gear your axles or scream down the highway. If your on the trail only I can see the benefit, no computers, it’s easy, but the ability to stay in low range when going from trail to trail or obstacle to obstacle is nice with the transmissions that have more gears and maybe they applies more towards west coast wheeling and not parks. For a trail rig only I see the appeal in some aspects, for a rig on the road and trail I see zero appeal to a TH400.

I get why racers use em, they have so much power and the TH400 has been around for so long they know what you need to build a bomb proof trans and the more power you have the less gear options you need.

Some may disagree but that’s my .02

 

[DMANbluesfreak]

I'm excited for you. The other major downside of the 4l80e besides the 3-4 shift (which doesn't bug me as much as it does you, seemingly) is the LONNNNNNGGG 1st gear. I can hit 60mph in 1st, it's nuts. The doubler was NEEDED because of that. With the 6L80E, you almost don't need a doubler if you have a 2.72:1 or 4:1 transfer case.

I've wanted a 6 speed for a long time, but converting my entire rig to GenIV will be a pretty big financial burden. Maybe someday. Take notes please

 

[06h3]

I'm excited for you. The other major downside of the 4l80e besides the 3-4 shift (which doesn't bug me as much as it does you, seemingly) is the LONNNNNNGGG 1st gear. I can hit 60mph in 1st, it's nuts. The doubler was NEEDED because of that. With the 6L80E, you almost don't need a doubler if you have a 2.72:1 or 4:1 transfer case.

I've wanted a 6 speed for a long time, but converting my entire rig to GenIV will be a pretty big financial burden. Maybe someday. Take notes please

Will do!
I bet it’s because your OD ratio is .75 and mine is .69 so I have some additional rpm drop then a 4L80E

the 4L60E has a 3.06 1st gear, 4L80E 2.48 1st gear

sounds like we complain about the opposite reasons. Mine is 4th gear, yours is 1st gear.

Sounds like we need a 4L80E with a 4L60E 1st gear ratio

 

[DMANbluesfreak]

Oh dang, I forgot you still were rockin the 4l60/65e. That makes more sense!

You'd think with the 4l80e being more for 'towing' that the 1st gear would be shorter, but who knows why they did it like this (except because it carried over from the TH400).

The 6l80e definitely solves both of our problems quite well. If it can be configured to start in other gears, that would be amazing too. My 4l60e and 4l80e would start in 2nd if I put the gear selector in 2nd, but ONLY at ~half throttle or less. Enough MAP and it would kick down into 1st anyway. It's tough on those loose hillclimbs where you need wheel speed, but single low isn't enough oomph.

 

[06h3]

Oh dang, I forgot you still were rockin the 4l60/65e. That makes more sense!

You'd think with the 4l80e being more for 'towing' that the 1st gear would be shorter, but who knows why they did it like this (except because it carried over from the TH400).

The 6l80e definitely solves both of our problems quite well. If it can be configured to start in other gears, that would be amazing too. My 4l60e and 4l80e would start in 2nd if I put the gear selector in 2nd, but ONLY at ~half throttle or less. Enough MAP and it would kick down into 1st anyway. It's tough on those loose hillclimbs where you need wheel speed, but single low isn't enough oomph.

I’m being told by the tuner that it can. If I want to start in 4th I put it in M (manual) push the plus button to 4th and it will start and hold 4th under any circumstance. Obviously OE tuning isn’t like that but they can tune it to be like that.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

6l80/90s are awesome. You get a low enough 1st that high range is actually usable.

What's you plans for tcases with the new trans?

I can't remember if you're 203 or planitary doubler?

Edit: what are these trails called? North ID has me seriously missing good rock crawling. I need to come down and see what my little Sami can do

 

[06h3]

6l80/90s are awesome. You get a low enough 1st that high range is actually usable.

What's you plans for tcases with the new trans?

I can't remember if you're 203 or planitary doubler?

Edit: what are these trails called? North ID has me seriously missing good rock crawling. I need to come down and see what my little Sami can do

I have a planetary doubler. I’ll just go to the junkyard and swap in a 32 spline input or reach out to Chris Bowman, he’s the go to guy for transmissions and doubler setups around here. He probably has a shelf of 32 spline inputs.

length is basically the same as a 4L60E so no major modifications there. I contemplated a 6L90E but it is about 1.5in longer then the 4L60E and 6L80E. That’s enough of a difference to require driveline lengthening/shortening and Crossmember changes. The only bummer in my eyes is the GVWR/GCWR. The 4L60E is rated at 15,500 GCWR while the 6L80E is rated at 15,000 GCWR which I do find comical. I did find a 2014 max tow package Silverado 1500 with a GCWR of 17,500 lbs, I’m pretty sure it has a 6L80E but maybe it’s a 90E, so it either negates the 15,000 GCWR or they derate the 90E. Either way I find it crazy that the 6L90E jumps to 21,000 GCWR when they share 75% of the same parts. I almost never ever tow with the hummer but have towed here and there in dire need situations. I figure for the infrequency of going over 15,000 GCWR it isn’t worth the Crossmember and driveline changes where a 6L80E will prevent those changes.

as for rock crawling it’s in the “Owyhees” as they call it. I’m in Meridian and less then an hour from almost all the pics and videos posted. I find the trails here to be like Reno. Hush hush, you can run them if you show up and someone takes you. No one posts coordinates out of fear of it getting ruined. Either way, if you ever wanna come down let me know and I’ll show you around. There’s a ton of stuff to offer and I haven’t even scratched the surface. I’ve been up in your neck of the woods and I feel like there has to be some rock crawling. I have heard of the “compressor” trail or something further south by CDA. There’s plenty of rocks, it just seems to be hiking trails though, I’m sure there’s some hidden gems that some people will share. CA wheeling is plastered all over the Internet. You can download coordinates to just about every hammer trail, fordyce, rubicon, slickrock, hellhole, big bear, corral canyon down in SD. Idaho and Nevada seem to be the opposite. I have met some good guys that have no problem showing me around and I’ve seen an out of stater post up coordinates after a visit once and I felt like some locals wanted to jump through the computer and strangle the guy.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

I have a planetary doubler. I’ll just go to the junkyard and swap in a 32 spline input or reach out to Chris Bowman, he’s the go to guy for transmissions and doubler setups around here. He probably has a shelf of 32 spline inputs.

The ratios of the 6l80 with the doubler will be awesome. I'm curious what you will think doing a direct swap with no other changes.

length is basically the same as a 4L60E so no major modifications there. I contemplated a 6L90E but it is about 1.5in longer then the 4L60E and 6L80E. That’s enough of a difference to require driveline lengthening/shortening and Crossmember changes. The only bummer in my eyes is the GVWR/GCWR. The 4L60E is rated at 15,500 GCWR while the 6L80E is rated at 15,000 GCWR which I do find comical. I did find a 2014 max tow package Silverado 1500 with a GCWR of 17,500 lbs, I’m pretty sure it has a 6L80E but maybe it’s a 90E, so it either negates the 15,000 GCWR or they derate the 90E. Either way I find it crazy that the 6L90E jumps to 21,000 GCWR when they share 75% of the same parts. I almost never ever tow with the hummer but have towed here and there in dire need situations. I figure for the infrequency of going over 15,000 GCWR it isn’t worth the Crossmember and driveline changes where a 6L80E will prevent those changes.

Ratings are funny these days, my wife's 2015 F150 probably has certain ratings that are the same or higher than my 97 F350. That doesn't mean I'd hook a 16k lb trailer behind it and take off into the desert like I have in my truck.

as for rock crawling it’s in the “Owyhees” as they call it. I’m in Meridian and less then an hour from almost all the pics and videos posted. I find the trails here to be like Reno. Hush hush, you can run them if you show up and someone takes you. No one posts coordinates out of fear of it getting ruined. Either way, if you ever wanna come down let me know and I’ll show you around. There’s a ton of stuff to offer and I haven’t even scratched the surface. I’ve been up in your neck of the woods and I feel like there has to be some rock crawling. I have heard of the “compressor” trail or something further south by CDA. There’s plenty of rocks, it just seems to be hiking trails though, I’m sure there’s some hidden gems that some people will share. CA wheeling is plastered all over the Internet. You can download coordinates to just about every hammer trail, fordyce, rubicon, slickrock, hellhole, big bear, corral canyon down in SD. Idaho and Nevada seem to be the opposite. I have met some good guys that have no problem showing me around and I’ve seen an out of stater post up coordinates after a visit once and I felt like some locals wanted to jump through the computer and strangle the guy.

Hiking trails is no joke, I've probably done close to 1500 miles of dirt road exploring since we've moved up here. There is one neat lake called Roman nose, very reminiscent of the high Sierra lakes I grew up with, but is a groomed gravel road to get in and very yuppied up like Yosemite, wooden planks so you don't walk in the mud, ect. Other than that, they leave every single cool area for hiking. It's mind blowing and so disappointing that I really doubt we'll stay up here. When we came up a few years ago, we just happened to find another lake, had a mild trail into it, but enough to keep stock rigs and Subarus out. Looking at the sat view, there was dozens more like it and lots of granite everywhere in the Selkirks. Well when we went back, there was signs everywhere saying it was private timber land. I don't know what the odds were that we found that lake the first time with only a few hours of exploring, but we did. Which gave me a hugely false impression of the area.

I knew there wouldn't be a trail like Fordyce, but I figured there would be some cool lakes to check out. I swear I havent found one. They also really seem to try and make everything a dead end. Driving 2 hours up a switchback road, just to find a road that previously went through, blocked off can be infuriating. I've even found on X off road to be fairly inaccurate.

There is a little bit of "wheelin" down closer to cda. It's pretty lame though, like 33s and no lockers might be a slight challenge. And again, I'm pretty sure theyre dead ends and you have to run the trail back out too.

We do have dirt bikes, which is pretty awesome around here, lots of great single track. But not very family friendly with young kids. I usually just end up by myself, which isn't a great idea either.

I'd like to come check out the real rock trails down south, but it's like 9 hours. So even for a 3 day weekend, is a long haul.

 

[06h3]

YotaAtieToo that is hugely disappointing. I feel like Idaho is like CA in the sense that southern ID is very desertish like SoCal and northern ID is very NorCal with the trees and lakes but maybe up north just doesn’t have the trails.

It would be nice to get a group behind you to allow you to create a good rock crawling trail. I do wonder how CA got some many good trails even though it’s so anti wheeling.

I get asked this by the locals and the biggest difference I see from the hammers to a Boise type trail is trail width. Hammers seems to have gotten wider trails over the years with 90in wide KOH cars trying to pass each other. Here I need a shoehorn at times so your sami will fit right in. I basically use my cage as a slider all the time to pivot off rocks.

where do you think you will end up long term?

 

[YotaAtieToo]

YotaAtieToo that is hugely disappointing. I feel like Idaho is like CA in the sense that southern ID is very desertish like SoCal and northern ID is very NorCal with the trees and lakes but maybe up north just doesn’t have the trails.

It would be nice to get a group behind you to allow you to create a good rock crawling trail. I do wonder how CA got some many good trails even though it’s so anti wheeling.

I get asked this by the locals and the biggest difference I see from the hammers to a Boise type trail is trail width. Hammers seems to have gotten wider trails over the years with 90in wide KOH cars trying to pass each other. Here I need a shoehorn at times so your sami will fit right in. I basically use my cage as a slider all the time to pivot off rocks.

where do you think you will end up long term?

Most of Californias good trails started out as roads to mines. I think the reason they stayed open is that there are so many people into wheelin that they would actually push back on closures, and/or volunteer time and material to fix the issues. I think the reason those roads became difficult was probably just wear and tear from lots of traffic, combined with crazy amounts of rain and snow melt run off.

There is so much granite around me, its mind blowing that there are no rock crawling trails. Again, I wasn't expecting Fordyce, but just a few lakes I could get to for some nice camping or day trips would be sweet.

My wife suggested that, it's just not going to happen up here, at least in Bonners. For better or worse, it's a farm town. There just isnt much recreation done by the locals. If you look at a map, you'd think river boats would be big, but I very rarely see one.

I don't know, we're going to give it an honest shot before we leave, there is alway the chance I havent found that one area. We may just move a little further south closer to sandpoint or cda. Southern ID, but a mountain town, SD, UT, NV, TN? I always said I didn't want to be one of those people who is constantly moving trying to find that perfect place, but who knows.

 

[DMANbluesfreak]

Often times the GCWR is assigned by the weakest component of the transmission. Older 4L80E transmissions were only rated a tiny bit higher than the 4l60e because of the PARKING PAWL. GM made a 4l80e that accepted a trans mounted drum parking brake and the GCWR shot up by a few thousand pounds. I forget what years and such this all applied.

Final note - you can get a 32 spline input shaft for 95+ NP241 (and NV246) on eBay for under $50 FYI.

 

[06h3]

DMANbluesfreak thanks for that info. The heaviest thing I could ever imagine towing is flat towing my F550 if it broke down. That would be 19,500 GCWR (hummer and truck together) which is quite a bit over. It would be like 100 miles max going slow and flat towing (or let’s be real, a tow strap lol) either way it did concern me a bit but I guess I won’t worry about it much.

YotaAtieToo I get what you mean. Finding a place you like can be tough. I grew up in NY, moved to so cal when I was 13. I hated my parents and CA because they took me away from my friends just before going to HS but I came to love so cal with time. When I got my license and could drive I got into wheeling and loved the desert, made friends, etc. I then moved to Sacramento for a year due to work. I can’t say I liked or didn’t like Sacramento. I was there for such a short time before work moved me to a choice of Spokane, Boise Area, SLC or MT. Boise seemed to have the best wheeling from what I saw (BLM land) winters that are mild enough for my wife and not too far from the desert or mtns. I think we will stay here but give it 15 years of politicians ruining it, that may change. When I moved to So Cal I was in Santa Clarita. A quiet little valley, before I left, 13 years later, the open land was closing and being built out before my eyes. No place is perfect but finding a place to make you happy is important.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Well, I wasn't trying to make this about choosing where to live.

I was actually pretty happy where I was, despite the state I was in. Lots of good wheelin and exploring minutes away, plus Fordyce, Rubicon, and moon rocks with in a few hours. I grew up there and knew enough people that it made a lot of things easier.

The fire burned the whole town and it just wasn't the same. Then I it was the whole paranoia thing for 8 months out of the year waiting for the next fire. As we speak the largest single fire in CA history is burning the whole area we lived camping and exploring. So I don't regret moving.

I never in a million years thought one of the most conservative states in the union would be so locked down public land wise. Oh well, live and learn.

 

[Lincoln]

Well, I wasn't trying to make this about choosing where to live.

I was actually pretty happy where I was, despite the state I was in. Lots of good wheelin and exploring minutes away, plus Fordyce, Rubicon, and moon rocks with in a few hours. I grew up there and knew enough people that it made a lot of things easier.

The fire burned the whole town and it just wasn't the same. Then I it was the whole paranoia thing for 8 months out of the year waiting for the next fire. As we speak the largest single fire in CA history is burning the whole area we lived camping and exploring. So I don't regret moving.

I never in a million years thought one of the most conservative states in the union would be so locked down public land wise. Oh well, live and learn.

Don’t listen to him, He is just another alien moving through. If I was a guessing man I would bet he needed a , may at the intersection of Blackcat and Columbia. Just guessing though.