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Hardbody SAS, Just like Momma used to do it

dentedsub

dentedsub

Haberdasher
Joined
Jun 2, 2020
Member Number
1767
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Close but no cigar
I know there are a bunch of D21 SAS's ou there but I don't remember any on the old thread and I guess it will be the first here. This is my first build thread and will probably be used as much for questions as sharing my experience.
So here's the plan:
1990 Nissan Hardbody D21, 4wd, 2.4L 4 banger, 5 speed manual. Kinda ugly.
Picture1110211340_1.jpg

'84 Wagoneer Dana 44, nothing special there.
5.13s, spartan locker
4" YJ springs from Zone (hopefully not too tall, want to keep it low)
Trail gear front hangars and LII rear sliders instead of shackles
H233B rear with 5.13s and lockrite
Planning on 33s
This is the one I did the trans for here fs5w71 2wd to 4wd conversion
There will be more obviously but I just want to get the axle under it first. This is my first time setting up gears so hopefully I don't screw anything up.


DSCN9764[1].JPG

I almost have the axle disassembled and ready to install the gears and everything else.
DSCN9765[1].JPG
 
I don't have much of a plan. I'm hoping to keep it near stock height. Its why I got a 4 cyl. They have a rear sump oil pan and I'm hoping The axle will stuff identical to where the current diff is. I can't get any good measurements until I start cutting.

I didn't get much progress done this weekend, just new ball joints installed and locker put in the housing. One of my kids fell off a ladder Friday night and we ended up calling an ambulance just to be safe. Luckily she's just bruised and sore.
 
We just did a first gen X with slider boxes and I'm very impressed. They worked way better than I expected them too. Pretty sure he used the same ones you have.

v8GRC0IV0TCmwWpkzGA2-RiSW=w1250-h937-no?authuser=0.jpg
 
Good to hear. I always planned on using the calmini shackle kit until I heard about their problems getting parts out. I was reminded of the sliding shackles and figured it would be a lot easier then drilling holes in the frame and hopefully helps keep it a little lower too.
 
Just for an update, there isn't much. I've got the axle at work and mostly been working on it during lunch, so 30-40 minutes at a time. I tried taking measurements according the dana manual but I must be doing something wrong. What I got was this;
DSCN9780.JPG
I've ended up just doing it by feel which sucks and is taking for ever. I've had the pinion out over a dozen times. I was stupid and installed the bearings on the dif housing so now I got to pull them off to correct the backlash.
 
I think I'm ready to buton up the gears finally. This is my latest pattern and I don't think I am capable of getting it any better.
DSCN9813.JPG
 
I couldn't let it be, heres my new pattern. I think its a lot better but I wish I could figure out what is causing the lines.

DSCN9821.JPG

DSCN9823.JPG
 
are you doing a spring under or spring over? If spring over, you'll be at least 6-7" taller than stock.

Also, I suspect those YJ springs will be too soft. when I had a SUA Frontier reg cab (basically your truck but newer), I ran Rough Country 8011s up front, then switched to Rancho 44044s. The ranchos were too soft and flattened out a bunch under the weight of the truck. The Rough countries were too stiff. I ended up spec'ing out custom Alcans for up front with a 1200lb spring rate on each corner and went spring over. The leaf packs were actually inverted a little bit to keep the ride height down (think stock squarebody looking springs)

You're going to need to clearance the Tcase Xmember for the front driveshaft as well. Move the axle as far forward as you can get away with, even if you have to extend the spring hanger out a bit in front of the truck. The driveline angle will thank you. You can ream the stock pitman arm to work with jeep steering linkage....I just used stock FSJ stuff before upgrading years later to Parts Mike DOM linkages using Chevy 1/2 ton outers.
 
I'm leaving it spring under.
Thats a bummer about the springs. I was thinking a YJ with the 6 weighed about as much as a hardbody.
Its interesting 44044s were too soft since they are made a good sized v8 suv. I looked for them but they aren't available any more. I'll try what I have and cross my fingers. Maybe it will be fine until I throw a winch on the front.
Depending on the year and size of your Frontier there might be a big weight difference. Mines only a regular cap short bed and will have maybe a decade's worth less electronics in it.
I kept all the stock steering with the axle. I read somewhere the fsj tie rods fit in the hardbody pitman arm, if not its an easy fix like you said. If it all works out I'll replace it with new stock stuff for now.
I haven't done the crossmember yet but its on my list. I didn't realize it needed modified until a few weeks ago.

I was planning on putting the axle an inch forward from where everything sits now. Can I go any further without moving the steering box?

I really thought I would be done by now. It took me so long to set up the gears by the time they were done I got busy with Christmas and everythng else.
 
you could go further forward. If you don't you'll find yourself limted to about 33" rubber without a lot of fender trimming if you keep it low.

The FSJ stuff does not fit the stock pitman arm, but you can get a tapered reamer and make it fit, which is what I did on all the Nissan SASs I worked on. My Frontier was a '98 reg cab short box too, so it's damn near the same truck as your HB, except with the twin cam motor.

Also consider gearing....your HB has either 4.375s or 4.625s. The dana doesn't match either way. you can get 5.143s for an H233B rear, and maybe a C200 as well. 4.90s are also out there for H233Bs. Either of those will match well with 5.13 or 4.88 Dana gears in front, respectively.

shackles are the other fun part. you should go through the frame. Calmini did offer a Leaf SAS kit for the HB. If you call them they might be able to give you a set of the templates for punching the hole through the frame rails to mount shackles Also consider reinforcing the thin part of the frame around the steering box and in the same area on the pass side, as I experienced quite a bit of cracking over the years and ended up plating the frame in those areas.
 
I'm only planning on 33s for now, this is my daily. I'll try to go a little farther forward, I was worried about the steering geometry and the YJ leaves are longer tha I wanted and already look like they will stick out 3-4 inches past the frame. I like the idea of going farther forward, there isn't much fender to trim behind the tire.

My c200 has 4.11s, but there is no way I'm putting money into it. The plan is to pick up a H233 from a 90s v6. It should bolt up and Summit has 5.13s for it to match the front. My math tells me with 33s my RPMs should only go up about 150 at 70 mph.

I actually bought these sliders
LII-SBK%201%20%28Small%29.jpg

They're huge but should be a lot faster than drilling through the frame. My original plan was the calmini kit but from what I hear they would take my money and never ship them to me.
 
dentedsub said:
I'm only planning on 33s for now, this is my daily. I'll try to go a little farther forward, I was worried about the steering geometry and the YJ leaves are longer tha I wanted and already look like they will stick out 3-4 inches past the frame. I like the idea of going farther forward, there isn't much fender to trim behind the tire.

My c200 has 4.11s, but there is no way I'm putting money into it. The plan is to pick up a H233 from a 90s v6. It should bolt up and Summit has 5.13s for it to match the front. My math tells me with 33s my RPMs should only go up about 150 at 70 mph.

I actually bought these sliders
LII-SBK%201%20%28Small%29.jpg

They're huge but should be a lot faster than drilling through the frame. My original plan was the calmini kit but from what I hear they would take my money and never ship them to me.
Click to expand...
there are no stock H233Bs with 5.14s, and Nissan gear sets are pricey.

You're better off finding a 2002-2004 Xterra rear with factory 4.90s and matching the front with 4.88s. You will have to flip the spring perches to the top of the axle though. Also, the D22 H233Bs have the beefier 33 spline shafts vs. the 31 spline shafts in the D21 series.
 
Yukon has 5.13s for H233Bs.
Can you get lunch box lockers for 33 spline H233Bs? I haven't seen them but maybe I'm looking in the wrong places. I don't want to spend a grand on an ARB. I don't want a locker thats worth more than the truck.
 
D-Rat said:
are you doing a spring under or spring over? If spring over, you'll be at least 6-7" taller than stock.

Also, I suspect those YJ springs will be too soft. when I had a SUA Frontier reg cab (basically your truck but newer), I ran Rough Country 8011s up front, then switched to Rancho 44044s. The ranchos were too soft and flattened out a bunch under the weight of the truck. The Rough countries were too stiff. I ended up spec'ing out custom Alcans for up front with a 1200lb spring rate on each corner and went spring over. The leaf packs were actually inverted a little bit to keep the ride height down (think stock squarebody looking springs)

You're going to need to clearance the Tcase Xmember for the front driveshaft as well. Move the axle as far forward as you can get away with, even if you have to extend the spring hanger out a bit in front of the truck. The driveline angle will thank you. You can ream the stock pitman arm to work with jeep steering linkage....I just used stock FSJ stuff before upgrading years later to Parts Mike DOM linkages using Chevy 1/2 ton outers.
Click to expand...

You bought the 44044s new or got them used? I've seen those used under dozens of Toyotas, some with V6 and V8s and never thought they were too soft. They're like a 6 or 7 leaf pack stock. If anything they were too stiff. I can't imagine one of these little trucks to be drastically heavier than a Toyota.

I ran almost identical YJ leafs on my 4runner and they were great. I ran them with the bottom leaf pulled for a bit while they broke in and later added it back. It was a 4cyl, but had a big steel bumper and an 8274 on the front.

Running a flat or negative leaf is retarded. You might get it to ride soft on dirt roads, but that's about it. Arch is good when you have many thin leafs, just cheap lift springs give people the wrong impression.
 
These were cheap but they're not 44044s. I couldn't find any and apparantly they're not in production any more. I didn't see any other wagoneer springs for decent price. IIRC I could'nt buy any front lift springs with out buying the whole kit either. I bought some new Zone 4inch YJ springs I found on Ebay. I was dumb though and didn't read the specs in the ad. I didn't realize they were so much longer than stock YJ springs until I got them.
bgaidan said:
Click to expand...
This'll work. Its good to have options since my local salvage yards don't like to keep anything thats more than 10 or 15 years old.
 
dentedsub said:
These were cheap but they're not 44044s. I couldn't find any and apparantly they're not in production any more. I didn't see any other wagoneer springs for decent price. IIRC I could'nt buy any front lift springs with out buying the whole kit either. I bought some new Zone 4inch YJ springs I found on Ebay. I was dumb though and didn't read the specs in the ad. I didn't realize they were so much longer than stock YJ springs until I got them.

This'll work. Its good to have options since my local salvage yards don't like to keep anything thats more than 10 or 15 years old.
Click to expand...

Standard YJ is 47", but with more arch, you'll get a longer leaf.

If they don't work out, BDS are good, military wrapped both ends, made in Canada and lifetime warranty. Yes, they will replace a bent leaf. I came off a 3' undercut right to the front of the leaf and bent it right next to the eye. Sent them a Pic and he said OK, cut the main leaf in half and send me a Pic. They sent out a leaf quickly and even payed for shipping. :smokin:
 
YotaAtieToo said:
You bought the 44044s new or got them used? I've seen those used under dozens of Toyotas, some with V6 and V8s and never thought they were too soft. They're like a 6 or 7 leaf pack stock. If anything they were too stiff. I can't imagine one of these little trucks to be drastically heavier than a Toyota.

I ran almost identical YJ leafs on my 4runner and they were great. I ran them with the bottom leaf pulled for a bit while they broke in and later added it back. It was a 4cyl, but had a big steel bumper and an 8274 on the front.

Running a flat or negative leaf is retarded. You might get it to ride soft on dirt roads, but that's about it. Arch is good when you have many thin leafs, just cheap lift springs give people the wrong impression.
Click to expand...
I thought they were soft on my Frontier.

I ran flat Alcan packs for a long time on that same truck when I swapped from SUA to SOA to keep ride hight about the same. They worked well. I think they were 8 leaf packs. Retarded? :flipoff2: That truck has been all over the west on gobs of trails. I sold it to someone in CA about a year ago after I bought it back from the widow of the guy I sold it to in 2017. I ran that thing almost 20 years.
 
D-Rat said:
I thought they were soft on my Frontier.
Click to expand...

Were they new? If not, someone may have pulled leafs.

D-Rat said:
I ran flat Alcan packs for a long time on that same truck when I swapped from SUA to SOA to keep ride hight about the same. They worked well. I think they were 8 leaf packs. Retarded? :flipoff2: That truck has been all over the west on gobs of trails. I sold it to someone in CA about a year ago after I bought it back from the widow of the guy I sold it to in 2017. I ran that thing almost 20 years.
Click to expand...

I'm surprised they built them flat. Most spring shops won't build flat leafs as you're not supposed to invert them. They may have worked. I know guys running flat Toyota rears up front for years with no issues. I'd bend them in 2 trips on my samurai.

Why didn't you stay spua with the custom pack?
 
YotaAtieToo said:
Were they new? If not, someone may have pulled leafs.



I'm surprised they built them flat. Most spring shops won't build flat leafs as you're not supposed to invert them. They may have worked. I know guys running flat Toyota rears up front for years with no issues. I'd bend them in 2 trips on my samurai.

Why didn't you stay spua with the custom pack?
Click to expand...
better clearance under the axle with SOA. The 44044s I had were brand new. The truck was a reg cab 4 banger but it weighed about 4600lbs without me in it. Lots of armor, exo cage, etc.....

Flat springs....ever see a squarebody chevy? OEM springs are all inverted up front.....GM bulit millions of them.
 
D-Rat said:
better clearance under the axle with SOA. The 44044s I had were brand new. The truck was a reg cab 4 banger but it weighed about 4600lbs without me in it. Lots of armor, exo cage, etc.....

Flat springs....ever see a squarebody chevy? OEM springs are all inverted up front.....GM bulit millions of them.
Click to expand...

Ya, because 70s square body is the leaf set up I was to emulate on a rock crawler :laughing:

Free arch gives more travel, look at most Deaver long travel leafs. If it worked for you, that's cool, I just think it's not the best way.
 
dentedsub said:
I know there are a bunch of D21 SAS's ou there but I don't remember any on the old thread and I guess it will be the first here. This is my first build thread and will probably be used as much for questions as sharing my experience.
So here's the plan:
1990 Nissan Hardbody D21, 4wd, 2.4L 4 banger, 5 speed manual. Kinda ugly.
Picture1110211340_1.jpg

'84 Wagoneer Dana 44, nothing special there.
5.13s, spartan locker
4" YJ springs from Zone (hopefully not too tall, want to keep it low)
Trail gear front hangars and LII rear sliders instead of shackles
H233B rear with 5.13s and lockrite
Planning on 33s
This is the one I did the trans for here fs5w71 2wd to 4wd conversion
There will be more obviously but I just want to get the axle under it first. This is my first time setting up gears so hopefully I don't screw anything up.


DSCN9764[1].JPG

I almost have the axle disassembled and ready to install the gears and everything else.
DSCN9765[1].JPG
Click to expand...
Right now I'm in the planning stages and parts Gathering of my 95 Pathfinder solid-axle swap and I went with the Bonney Motorsports front hanger and liquid iron Industries slider boxes because trying to drill that shackle hole in the frame into the body mount in that part of the frame and keeping it straight is apparently very complicated.
 
Got most of the front end disassembled. Is any of that crap worth anything to anybody? Can I put maybe the hubs, axle shaft or diff on ebay and make a few bucks?
 
dentedsub said:
Got most of the front end disassembled. Is any of that crap worth anything to anybody? Can I put maybe the hubs, axle shaft or diff on ebay and make a few bucks?
Click to expand...
Pretty much all worthless unless they're manual hubs. Even the shafts aren't worth shipping because you can pick them up online shipped for less than retail shipping cost. Better off giving them to someone local that wheels. Same with the diff. They're so plentiful at the junk yards that you can't compete with pick n pull prices.
 
Some progress made. Everything finally dropped out, now its on to cutting.
DSCN9911.JPG


I think the last guy never washed off the mud. All this came out with the forward crossmember.
DSCN9912.JPG

DSCN9910.JPG
 
Little teaser pic
DSCN9914[1].JPG


This is what is stopping me from going any farther forward;
DSCN9917[1].JPG

Pitman arm is a little behind the tie rod, if it was true crossover I guess it wouldn't matter but i figure since its the Jeep t-steering it will bind when stuffed.
 
dentedsub said:
Little teaser pic
DSCN9914[1].JPG


This is what is stopping me from going any farther forward;
DSCN9917[1].JPG

Pitman arm is a little behind the tie rod, if it was true crossover I guess it wouldn't matter but i figure since its the Jeep t-steering it will bind when stuffed.
Click to expand...
A pass side flat top knuckle with a hi steer arm and a true crossover drag link will help bumpsteer significantly
 
D-Rat said:
A pass side flat top knuckle with a hi steer arm and a true crossover drag link will help bumpsteer significantly
Click to expand...
True, but thats not in the budget yet. I might do when I add locking hubs.

Next question, does anyone know if chev brake lines will bolt up or does Nissan use some weird metric size? I'm looking for a simple way to get longer brake lines.
 
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