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Hard Facing MIG Wire - Any Guidance?

AlxJ64

AlxJ64

Rust is Paint
Joined
Feb 3, 2021
Member Number
3436
Messages
734
Loc
Richmond / Cville - VA
Maybe a "Tuesday" question for some, and maybe the answer is "nothing"... but thought I'd ask.

I have a project coming up that requires some hard facing of some tine teeth on an excavator rake. A friend provided me a roll of 0.045" 700HT fluxcore filler to run in my Multimatic 255. Also have some AR400 pieces that would ideally be attached to increase the tine size at the bottom. Will be attaching and welding on A50 HRPO, clean, never been in the dirt.

Planning to preheat some as per other guidance but figured I'd ask in here if anyone has any warnings or tips for this kind of work. Being done in the shop, on my acorn table so no outdoor concerns with wind or moisture.

One thing that someone said in my searching is that I need to have barbed V groover rollers to drive this stuff, otherwise it slips or breaks.

Thanks!

Screen Shot 2024-09-20 at 12.12.21 PM.png
 
Are you planning on sticking the AR plate down with the hard facing wire too?
 
Hmmm, not sure how I feel about that. Having never used hard facing for structural stuff I have no frame of reference to how well it works. The other thought is if someone has to replace those later, grinding of the HF weld will bring the suck. Torch action may be required. But that's the next guys problem :lmao:
 
When I worked at the quarry we would hard face over the at and face of the teeth. But would not use the hard face to weld the plate to the bucket with it or the teeth. We never preheated it either.
 
bdkw1 said:
Hmmm, not sure how I feel about that. Having never used hard facing for structural stuff I have no frame of reference to how well it works. The other thought is if someone has to replace those later, grinding of the HF weld will bring the suck. Torch action may be required. But that's the next guys problem :lmao:
Click to expand...
Yea, there's a good chance the next guy will be me anyways; unless I sell the whole thing and then it is indeed someone else's problem.

Thoughts on why to not use the hard facing filler for the plate attachment? I'd figure you'd want the weld to hold up and not get worn away if its getting exposed to abrasion. But if its a metalurgical / fusion / cracking issue, then I get it for sure.

NorCalJalopy said:
When I worked at the quarry we would hard face over the at and face of the teeth. But would not use the hard face to weld the plate to the bucket with it or the teeth. We never preheated it either.
Click to expand...

The preheat idea is going off of what some others have told me about welding AR and HY type steels. I had a bad experience once where some plate type was mixed up, I was a dumb kid and didn't know any better, and failed to preheat properly.
 
I would pre-heat. For attachment I would use regular er70. It's ductile enough not to crack off and I know it will work. For something like that, it would suck if the HF wire didn't work out. Other than a wire change there really isn't a downside to useing regular wire to attach them.

Hoping someone with actual experience using HF structurally can chime in, I'd like to know.......
 
The loader bucket on my old tractor was repaired with hardface rod before I owned it, and cracked at every single HF weld. I'd also suggest the ER70 for anything structural.
 
Has anyone been as dumb as i was to think jard facing meant a FULL FACE and not just x's and single beads on a surface?


:context:
We had a grooved roller drum that a 8" chain link rolled through, the chain goes in the groove narrow ways to keep the chain from rotating and centerd in its trough.

Over time the groove got ate the fuck out and i had to fill it back in and fix the groove. 40hrs and 100lbs of rod later im about to finish and i get the bright idea of throwing a hardface cap on it to prevent this shit.

I went full tard and laid a full cap weld face just like id been doing. Well it cross cracked the weld bead about every inch.

Idk if i fucked up and did it wrong or i fucked up and used it wrong or i fucked up and should have welded it to a hollow circumferance or wtf ever excuse you can think of.
 
AlxJ64 said:
Maybe a "Tuesday" question for some, and maybe the answer is "nothing"... but thought I'd ask.

I have a project coming up that requires some hard facing of some tine teeth on an excavator rake. A friend provided me a roll of 0.045" 700HT fluxcore filler to run in my Multimatic 255. Also have some AR400 pieces that would ideally be attached to increase the tine size at the bottom. Will be attaching and welding on A50 HRPO, clean, never been in the dirt.

Planning to preheat some as per other guidance but figured I'd ask in here if anyone has any warnings or tips for this kind of work. Being done in the shop, on my acorn table so no outdoor concerns with wind or moisture.

One thing that someone said in my searching is that I need to have barbed V groover rollers to drive this stuff, otherwise it slips or breaks.

Thanks!

Screen Shot 2024-09-20 at 12.12.21 PM.png
Click to expand...
the term is knurled rollers, they are cheap in the comparison of this project
 
I have only used Stoody rod for hard facing. and I would never use hard face on anything that I thought for a second that might need to be removed later with a abrasive wheel of any kind
 
I've only spent a little time behind the gun hard facing but we used to do a ton at work.

1: hard facing will crack, don't get excited about it

2: it isn't structural, I would dual shield over ER70 especially if it's over 1/4" for attaching the AR.

3: it generally runs like shit as compared to a hard wire or dual shield

4: I would recommend wearing a respirator under your helmet.
 
Hard surface wire is a no go for being used to join plates together. Dual sheild is all we run when welding ar plate. Hard surface wire is kinda fickle on the settings. Some hard surface wires we swap the polarity so it builds up higher.
 
Thanks for all of the comments. This is good information. The knurled rollers have been ordered for the 255 and I will be waiting another week to get started on it.
 
I had some "shin guards" to weld to some ripper shanks. Had no clue wtf I was doing so I just busted them up into the sections and migged them to the ripper shank all the way around each piece of shin guard. Almost every single one of them cracked right in the middle from pulling, but I haven't lost any off the ripper shanks yet. As long as they stay on IDGAF. :laughing:
Those ripper shanks were getting quite worn and there was about 20 hours of buildup work total on those 7 shanks.


IMG_2023-04-26_16-16-40.jpeg
 
Maybe it's already clear, my understanding is hard facing is to give you a really hard wear surface for abrasion, it's not structural. Martensite is pretty hard grin structure, also brittle, and to avoid cracks need a very slow cooldown. IICR
 
AKnate said:
I've always just used regular er70s6 for buildup.
Click to expand...
That is what I did on those ripper shanks. Welded up the worn spot with the mig welder using standard wire and then put the shin guards on over that. I even bought hard facing rod thinking I was going to use it and then said fuck it, that's enough welding for me for now.
 
So here is the plan then.
Build the entire assembly with normal settings, mild steel welding practices, etc.
Then heat and use mild solid core gas shielded filler to attached the AR400 side guards to the tines.

Go back and install the new drive rollers, guide, and adjust settings to run the 0.045" 700HT hard facing, and then just build up over the other welds and surfaces with that. Expect some cracking but thats no big deal because its just a sacrificial wear surface.

Will report back when this is all done.

20240927_113641.jpg
 
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