glacially slow machine shop build

[2020AT4]

that's how it was done
you don't have enough concrete under it to keep it from shifting when the ground freezes
get it so it isn't rocking on its feet and call it good enough

Yeah, didn’t need to be that close for general use.

At least until you start making centrifuge spindles or jet engines.

ETA: I forgot how many feet this thing has.

 

[arse_sidewards]

Carbide inserts showed up today and I finally made chips.

These started life as 80+ F-series 2wd knuckles. The cheap carbide didn't like the plasma cutter slag where I cut of chunks of the knuckle. The knuckle is a hair too small to leave enough material to fit a 3" pipe so I welded that little spot on the first one which was a mistake since I lost another couple inserts cutting the weld back down. I skipped the weld on the second one since there's more than enough contact area even without it.

Not a great surface finish by any means but perfectly fine for welding into a tube. There's some serious movement in the cross slide I need to sort out and I need to figure out some sort of stud/nut/locktite deal that keeps the bolts that hold the main gib from vibrating out of adjustment.

 

[bgaidan]

My little atlas uses this style screw on all 3 gibs. You make adjustments with a small flat head screwdriver then clamp down the hex nut to lock the screw in place. Seem to work well.

 

[arse_sidewards]

My little atlas uses this style screw on all 3 gibs. You make adjustments with a small flat head screwdriver then clamp down the hex nut to lock the screw in place. Seem to work well.

My shit came with 19th century bolts and flathead screws.

My compound gib is the only one that's that style. The rear most bolt on the compound gib has been replaced with a stud like that and the nut is missing. I guess I'll replace all three bolts with studs.

The cross slide is a tapered gib and that one isn't visibly moving.

The carriage uses two ground to size Z-brackets that have clearance holes in them so stud and nut wouldn't work unless I found some way to secure the stud in the carriage (loctite) and double nutted them to keep the nut from backing off (which is what I plan to do).

I'm also getting some flex where the compound swivels on the cross slide which I'm hoping is just the fact that I was doing an interrupted cut with a ~.120 DOC. I don't regret spending the extra money on 1" tool holders at all.

I'll try and remember to take a video when I clean up the hubs that go with those spindles today.

 

[bgaidan]

If they'd be any use, I have piles of hardened square head bolts in pretty 1/4-5/8". I fish them out of the giant bin of hardware at the scrap yard and pay .25/lb for them.

 

[bgaidan]

Oh, and not quite as good as your free score, but I found these for $25 on FB yesterday. I think I responded 7 minutes after they posted and drove 45 minutes to get them....but I had other stuff to do nearby so it was justified. Hardly ever see these around here any more, and when you do they're usually at someone's antique booth as "vintage" for $400+.

 

[Firstram]

Tore my new to me Bridgeport down to the column yesterday to clean out 35 years worth of grime and dried grease. Flushed and packed all the bearings, new oil meters/tubing and adding way covers. The only real wear is the Y axis screw/nut and in the middle of the knee dovetail on the right side, both due to plugged oil meters. The table way is smooth in the middle 1/3 on the front edge, otherwise all of the factory machining is still there.

 

[Firstram]

Oh shit, sorry for stepping on your thread, I thought I was in random things

 

[2020AT4]

Carbide inserts showed up today and I finally made chips.

These started life as 80+ F-series 2wd knuckles. The cheap carbide didn't like the plasma cutter slag where I cut of chunks of the knuckle. The knuckle is a hair too small to leave enough material to fit a 3" pipe so I welded that little spot on the first one which was a mistake since I lost another couple inserts cutting the weld back down. I skipped the weld on the second one since there's more than enough contact area even without it.

Not a great surface finish by any means but perfectly fine for welding into a tube. There's some serious movement in the cross slide I need to sort out and I need to figure out some sort of stud/nut/locktite deal that keeps the bolts that hold the main gib from vibrating out of adjustment.

Once you get everything squared away and tight if you’re still getting that chatter (two different speeds on those parts?) you can try running the lathe in reverse and with the tool holder upside down.

Some of that may be coming from the headstock bearings and this is an old trick to help combat that when it matters.

 

[arse_sidewards]

Once you get everything squared away and tight if you’re still getting that chatter (two different speeds on those parts?) you can try running the lathe in reverse and with the tool holder upside down.

Some of that may be coming from the headstock bearings and this is an old trick to help combat that when it matters.

Same speed, approximately same feed, different DOC

How much play in the headstock is acceptable? I get a few thou on the dial indicator when I tighten the chuck but I haven't measured other than just noting that the needle moves.

 

[2020AT4]

Same speed, approximately same feed, different DOC

How much play in the headstock is acceptable? I get a few thou on the dial indicator when I tighten the chuck but I haven't measured other than just noting that the needle moves.

To check that you would need to place the indicator on the top of the chuck and use a lever/bar to lift it up/down to check for deflection.

Acceptable? Idealy none.

Real world with babbit bearings .0005 per inch of bearing inner diameter is what Im reading from the good book.

It also can vary with headstock bearing separation and can be adjusted in many cases.

 

[Dethmachinefab]

No play, but with that lathe it's unavoidable. It does look more like spindle movement than a flexy tool holder. Install indicator, check axial and radial movement at chuck. Should be able to use a little 2x4 to pry on it and check.

 

[Dethmachinefab]

To check that you would need to place the indicator on the top of the chuck and use a lever/bar to lift it up/down to check for deflection.

Acceptable? Idealy none.

Real world with babbit bearings .0005 per inch of bearing inner diameter is what Im reading from the good book.

It also can vary with headstock bearing separation and can be adjusted in many cases.

Yup, beat me to it.

 

[arse_sidewards]

Just to be clear, I can SEE the tool moving like 1/8" and I can see movement in the oil bead where the compound swivels on the cross slide and the compound handle is vibrating all over the place. There's a lot of low hanging fruit before fucking with the spindle.

 

[[486]]

and I can see movement in the oil bead where the compound swivels on the cross slide

prolly got some chips pinched in there
take the compound off and clean out between them
if it's clean, then you get you out the nasty black grease (or the fancy fresh prussian blue) and start taking off the high spots, scraping with the sharpened end of a file

 

[2020AT4]

Just to be clear, I can SEE the tool moving like 1/8" and I can see movement in the oil bead where the compound swivels on the cross slide and the compound handle is vibrating all over the place. There's a lot of low hanging fruit before fucking with the spindle.

Yeah, sounds like you have your work cut out for you.

As above, clean, blue and scrape.

It sucks now but will be worth it in the long run.

 

[arse_sidewards]

After about a year and a half with bare shelf frames I finally scored some free plywood.

 

[2020AT4]

After about a year and a half with bare shelf frames I finally scored some free plywood.

Damn son you rich!

 

[arse_sidewards]

Is there any reason to use anything but the cheapest Chinese shit for the display portion of a DRO? I'm gonna ask a local supplier for a scale package for my lathe. Is it worth buying the display from them too? I can get a cheap 3-axis display for under $100. They want double that at least.

 

[posford]

If it comes together as a package and is guaranteed to work, its worth extra. How much extra is up to you. I enjoy using my tools more than working on them.

 

[2020AT4]

Tpactools is the one I mentioned earlier.

Sub $400 for a 2 axis setup.

 

[arse_sidewards]

If it comes together as a package and is guaranteed to work, its worth extra.

Is it worth paying $1200 for an $89.99 readout display? I know rent isn't free but I don't wanna pay 100% markup for the privilege of them storing it in a warehouse for me.

Tpactools is the one I mentioned earlier.

Sub $400 for a 2 axis setup.

I think I'm gonna need to call them if I want a 9ft axis. Nobody makes off the shelf glass scales in that size, it's all magnetic tape.

 

[posford]

Is it worth buying the display from them too? I can get a cheap 3-axis display for under $100. They want double that at least.

Is it worth paying $1200 for an $89.99 readout display?

So what number is real or you still just bullshitting numbers?

Mag tape is good enough for what you'll need. Want stupid accuracy occasionally get a mighty mag and a good drop indicator

 

[arse_sidewards]

Meant to say $100-200, not $1200.

These are the guys I'm gonna order from https://sra-measurement.com/

I know mag tape is fine. The reason I mentioned glass is because you can get dirt cheap glass scales from China and that's what most people seem to use.

 

[arse_sidewards]

Seem like a fair deal?

The tape is sold in 100mm increments. I'm thinking of going cheap on the tape since that will result in a substantial savings for the 3000mm I need.

The cheap chinese tape is 5μm resolution and ± 15-30 μm accuracy. So even on the high end it's only a thou and even if you figure reality will be 2-3x that it would still be fine for the overwhelming majority of what I do.

 

[CNCJerry]

Seem like a fair deal?

The tape is sold in 100mm increments. I'm thinking of going cheap on the tape since that will result in a substantial savings for the 3000mm I need.

The cheap chinese tape is 5μm resolution and ± 15-30 μm accuracy. So even on the high end it's only a thou and even if you figure reality will be 2-3x that it would still be fine for the overwhelming majority of what I do.

I was never a fan of the magnet tape type DRO, always had issue with skipping and tape balling up if a chip got caught. I installed a Newall on a 3 axis mill and it was amazing. For a few hundred $ more you can have a nice kit to fit your 2 axis lathe.

Newall NMS300

 

[arse_sidewards]

I was never a fan of the magnet tape type DRO, always had issue with skipping and tape balling up if a chip got caught. I installed a Newall on a 3 axis mill and it was amazing. For a few hundred $ more you can have a nice kit to fit your 2 axis lathe.

Newall NMS300

Did you have bare tape or was there some sort of protection over it? The channel I'm buying uses a steel strip for protection. Do you think that's good enough? This machine only gets used like 1hr per week but I also don't have hand wheel dials so I can't verify the DRO against anything unless I have the foresight to stick a dial indicator on.

Magnetic Tape Support Profile - 1500mm Length

1500mm (59 inch) single piece support profile. Protects magnetic tape from knocks, coolant and swarf.

sra-measurement.com

 

[CNCJerry]

Did you have bare tape or was there some sort of protection over it? The channel I'm buying uses a steel strip for protection. Do you think that's good enough? This machine only gets used like 1hr per week but I also don't have hand wheel dials so I can't verify the DRO against anything unless I have the foresight to stick a dial indicator on.

Magnetic Tape Support Profile - 1500mm Length

1500mm (59 inch) single piece support profile. Protects magnetic tape from knocks, coolant and swarf.

sra-measurement.com

It has been at least fifteen years since they were all removed and changed to the Newall style DRO, but if I remember we had a mix of bare tape, covered ones as well as "sealed ones" that had a rubber seal that the head poked through and hit the tape.
All three of these styles had some issues over the years, however, I am talking about a production shop these machines were used 7 days weeks 24 hours a day with coolant and chips being dumped all over them.
For what you are doing your setup should be totally fine, if it were me setting up my personal lathe for occasional uses I would be hard-pressed to not spent the extra cash on a Newall style unit for peace of mind.
Just throwing out an option you may not have seen.

 

[arse_sidewards]

Thanks for the insight.

Looks like they make an even more robust channel with a bolt on cover.

Two Part Magnetic Tape Support Profile - 300mm/ 12" Length

300mm (12 inch) two part support profile. Protects magnetic tape from knocks, coolant and swarf.

sra-measurement.com

I suspect that if I have problems it will be on the cross slide or compound and not the carriage since that channel is so much further from the chips.

Do you think it's worth it to upgrade right off the bat and never worry about it or should I run what's in the kit?

 

[CNCJerry]

Hmm, sitting at my desk looking at my 8" 20 year old Mitutoyo digital calipers, these work on the same principle as the tape DRO. The only time I can remember having an issue with them was when they would get too wet from coolant dripping on them. Looking back we had the most issues with our DRO's when we were using flood coolent.
So that being said maybe flood coolant and fine dirt and chips cause issues with tape-style DRO's, I don't know just theorizing.
Will you be running coolant on this machine? If not, I am going to guess your setup will be perfectly fine for the hobby machinist. And even if you decide to run coolant you will not be running production so it will be intermittent and should not be an issue.

Also a tip, we always put the cross side reader on the backside of the cross slide and added a piece of angle iron over it to protect it from being hit by tailstock.

A picture of our two-axis lathe with sealed type DRO and angle iron protection.