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Future of KOH 4400 chassis/car development?

Treefrog said:
I could not find a minimum weight in the rulebook or the rule additions. I was asking if there was a particular section or if that rule was somewhere else.
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Ah my bad. Thought you were asking for the rule book but see that wasn’t the case now.
 
so about that sxs being on the podium


sprung weight is good for going fast, the light weightness of the sxs will be always be a problem for them against the 4400 guys
 
well everyone said SFA was dead after Shannon won and then it wasn't, now it is.

Bit of a knee jerk reaction. Still comes down to which doens't break. Is there are 75% of car running IFS it's pretty reasonble to figure less of them will be up front. Knee jerk reaction of what racer spend money on doesn't indicate it's a better performer.
 
I am curious to see how mid pack side by sides compare to mid pack 4400 cars. I can't help but wonder how much of SXS's running towards the front of the field is car vs driver.
 
Treefrog said:
I think the solid axle guys need to step up to the level of the IFS guys. Single seat, mid engine, fancy computer shocks, etc. With the current race of bypasses, the tried and proven method of fabricated ford 9s and front engines front engines will probably never get first again, unless all of the top ifs cars break.

I do wonder how much long solid rear will reign king.
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Hard to see solid rear going away. Easier to get big travel numbers and does way better on uphill rock sections. Also damn near bullet proof and simple compared to irs.

Except for driveshafts, I was surprised how many had driveshaft issues this year. If you can make a lower link hold up, how can you not make a driveshaft hold up?

Then again with someone mentioning the live valve system being able to stiffen the front up on down hills, the same could be applied to irs on up hills to help with the ground clearance loss and shitty wieght transfer of irs.
 
One of my circles friends Nick Alegri placed 6th last year and 4th this year in 4800 and is apparently already working on a new 4400 car for next year.... for what I would consider "bigish money".
Jeffh555 any idea what his plans are?
 
2big bronco said:
One of my circles friends Nick Alegri placed 6th last year and 4th this year in 4800 and is apparently already working on a new 4400 car for next year.... for what I would consider "bigish money".
Jeffh555 any idea what his plans are?
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Had an impressive run during the EMC.
 
SLOWPOKE693 said:
Cade Rodds winch line being fucked like 2ft out was total amature hour shit. Part of race prep should be unspooling the line and respooling it loosely so it's not pinched and won't come out. And the freespool not working is unacceptable....
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Usually you want to start out with winch lines tight to the drum and outward. If not, a hard pull will slice the tension-ed rope between the layers and you can't pull it out the next time you hand spool out to that spot. He might have had to winch previously and the co driver could not rewind the rope right or something along those lines. He did try some pretty enlightening stuff to try and get it unstuck. Not a rookie from what I saw.

What WAS interesting was the amount of rope that broke. Even on cars that would have had new rope. I wonder if pits should stock a new winch line and practice changing it. This was not a year for small winches. I always thought a grapple hook or similar would be helpful. (Don't get stuck. GAS it)
 
Was looking up something else and stumbled across this article with numbers on Raul's UFO.
offroadracer.com

UFO Motorsport’s “El Diablo 2.0” Ultra 4 | OffRoadRacer.com

There have been a lot of amazing off-road race vehicles built over the past 50+ years but the true test of a vehicle is winning races. Sadly some vehicles never get matched with driver capable of…
offroadracer.com offroadracer.com
 
JR4X said:
My bad, and I even know that :homer:

We gotta get them to start losing weight. I heard someone say today that the Gomez cars are weighing 5800 ish pounds in full dress with the driver in it. Bailey Campbell’s car weighs 6315 ish same full dress driver co driver and 80 gallons of fuel. Clearly a 3000 pound car with a smaller footprint has some advantage. And this year we hit zero lakebeds so the ability to go 120 mph wasn’t put into use even for the fleeting seconds they usually get.
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We are playing here with sprung and unsprung weight. The cars have to get heavier to resist the extra motion weight of 42" tires with liners (150#+) and now portals (50lbs+). I believe UFO (Joe Thompson) has resisted the portals because the front is relatively lite, and only sees weight on braking. I know I was warned about tilting front shocks inward or rearward. It had more to do with force location than progressive/regressive geometry.

When lay down shocks were introduced to offroad Moto in the early 70.s, there was a lot of trial and error with air shocks. The riders also had to get used to the transition from 5" to 8" to 12" of rear travel. Once the valving and pressures were worked out, springs were re-introduced to solve the heat/pressure issue. In the case of race cars visibility over the hood is a major issue and where lay down compromises can be made.

A rear engine car can help controlling the REAL heavy rear axles. There is room for straight up shocks. Newer TT's with 36" articulation are sporting shocks close to 8feet.

Again. Live valve is changing a LOT of this thinking.
 
JR4X said:
And this year we hit zero lakebeds so the ability to go 120 mph wasn’t put into use even for the fleeting seconds they usually get.
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I said this to a buddy before the race. That if the UTV's had a chance this would the year because there wasn't going to be anywhere that the full size rigs had a top speed advantage.
 
Isdtbower said:
Usually you want to start out with winch lines tight to the drum and outward. If not, a hard pull will slice the tension-ed rope between the layers and you can't pull it out the next time you hand spool out to that spot. He might have had to winch previously and the co driver could not rewind the rope right or something along those lines. He did try some pretty enlightening stuff to try and get it unstuck. Not a rookie from what I saw.

What WAS interesting was the amount of rope that broke. Even on cars that would have had new rope. I wonder if pits should stock a new winch line and practice changing it. This was not a year for small winches. I always thought a grapple hook or similar would be helpful. (Don't get stuck. GAS it)
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Only thing I've found that somewhat works to keep the rope from "slicing in" as you put it, is to criss cross it.

Spooling it neatly like steel cable will result in rope so stuck you will not get it by hand.
 
crazybluerider said:
I said this to a buddy before the race. That if the UTV's had a chance this would the year because there wasn't going to be anywhere that the full size rigs had a top speed advantage.
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Hunter Miller told me straight out that their 4400 X3's are absolutely frightening to drive above 80mph in the desert but in their Maverick R's it feels like a Sunday drive at 100+ mph. The cars they build for next year's 4400 race will be able to hang in the desert with the big cars much better than previous years.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
Only thing I've found that somewhat works to keep the rope from "slicing in" as you put it, is to criss cross it.

Spooling it neatly like steel cable will result in rope so stuck you will not get it by hand.
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Precisely this. Takes away 90% of the stuck rope issues. The only downside is that it takes up more room on the drum.

These guys should have a good, hard look at how the Europeans handle winching. Even outside of winch trials, a good winch is important. Hell, Mr Gigglepin Jim Marsden is out there every year. He even proved the importance years ago when the "won" the EMC in his Land Rover racer (and then got DQed for the full hydro steering).
 
elbekko said:
Precisely this. Takes away 90% of the stuck rope issues. The only downside is that it takes up more room on the drum.

These guys should have a good, hard look at how the Europeans handle winching. Even outside of winch trials, a good winch is important. Hell, Mr Gigglepin Jim Marsden is out there every year. He even proved the importance years ago when the "won" the EMC in his Land Rover racer (and then got DQed for the full hydro steering).
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Jim always has a heart attack when watching U4 racers attempt to winch. It’s comical for me at his comments.
 
2big bronco said:
One of my circles friends Nick Alegri placed 6th last year and 4th this year in 4800 and is apparently already working on a new 4400 car for next year.... for what I would consider "bigish money".
Jeffh555 any idea what his plans are?
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Allegri with two L’s. L

His plans was to not tell anyone he’s building a 4400 car, not sure who or when that changed.

New car is not going to be a dedicated KOH car like Scherer’s, but wider and with more fuel like Currie’s trophy Jeep or Campbell’s class 1. He plans to race some bucket list races like Mint 400 and V2R. Also big dumb motor because Evan’s involved.

He also said he has way too much work and money into getting the 4800 car dialed to sell it for market value, so he’s gonna come back next year and win EMC.
 
This year Loren went back to solid rear axle and almost had a great day. Which of the GBR cars are IRS? I recall they had a mix, but was that just a transition asthey updated the fleet?
 
A 3/4 scale UFO could be an absolute weapon. Add a lightweight reliable boosted 6 cyl then :smokin:
Front and rear winches if I were specing one out.

I"m surprised no one has packed a grappling hook as mentioned or a few rock climbing style wedge anchors made from aluminum and 3/8" rope. That would be a small weight penalty for a huge reward if needed.
Even using a doughnut style snatch block as a wedge would work.

I think if Raul would have had either option when winching, he would have tried them.

Capture.PNG
 
RustyC said:
A 3/4 scale UFO could be an absolute weapon. Add a lightweight reliable boosted 6 cyl then :smokin:
Front and rear winches if I were specing one out.
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This sounds gimmicky, but I bet it would work… make the rear winch a large ATV winch on a recessed hitch mount, and put hitches on the rockers. So you could move the rear winch to the side and right yourself moderate quickly.
 
Jeffh555 said:
This sounds gimmicky, but I bet it would work… make the rear winch a large ATV winch on a recessed hitch mount, and put hitches on the rockers. So you could move the rear winch to the side and right yourself moderate quickly.
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Just go all European with two big winches and put fairleads all around the chassis so you can pull any direction.
 
Jeffh555 said:
This sounds gimmicky, but I bet it would work… make the rear winch a large ATV winch on a recessed hitch mount, and put hitches on the rockers. So you could move the rear winch to the side and right yourself moderate quickly.
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Three 40v cordless lawn/garden tool batteries and an ATV winch on a little skid with a handle and a hook on one end to grab the vehicle tubing.
 
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