Front suck down winch rope routing? Need some ideas.

[Winchested]

Don't mind my kindergarten drawings here fellas.

I can't very well mount my suckdown inline with the axle. I have to mount it forward of it.

I'm thinking two upper pullies off my frame brace, one pulley at the axle.

Should I use pulleys or just tubing/ shackles welded to the brace/axle?

Its a warn 2k winch and I want to run the rope back to winch to double the pull.

I've got a solid state contactor for it and plan on just wiring it through the starter stud and the block (as it will be rarely used).

I also plan on sleeving the frame, and through bolting it with 2 1/2" gr 8 bolts. And 2 gr 8 bolts on the winch plate. Will mount with angle.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Can you just mount it on the axle?

 

[Winchested]

Can you just mount it on the axle?

The winch? No don't have the oil pan clearance.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

The winch? No don't have the oil pan clearance.

Oil pan? Looks like a country mile of room there

I feel like you're asking for grief with all those pullies.

 

[ParadisePWoffrd]

I have seen the winch mounted on one frame rail, the rope goes down to the axle, and then back up to the other frame rail. It seemed to work ok.

 

[Winchested]

I have seen the winch mounted on one frame rail, the rope goes down to the axle, and then back up to the other frame rail. It seemed to work ok.

Ah that may work I'll see if I have the clearance.

But not sure if a 2k winch will be enough if I can't double it back for a double line pull.

I can get rid of pulleys and just run the cable over a piece of 2" tube.

 

[Sluggy]

I did mine using tube and added the protective sheathe/sleeve on the rope. Also you want to upgrade the diameter for the weight. Make sure you try to mark it at full droop and only use when needed. When it acts like a limit strap, it either breaks the rope or destroys the winch.

 

[Winchested]

I did mine using tube and added the protective sheathe/sleeve on the rope. Also you want to upgrade the diameter for the weight. Make sure you try to mark it at full droop and only use when needed. When it acts like a limit strap, it either breaks the rope or destroys the winch.

Awesome thanks. This is only a 1/4" steel rope don't think this wee drum will allow for bigger it's not bolted on, it's pulled through drum then back in itself (wedged in)

 

[Sluggy]

I would try to upgrade to the rope and ditch the cable, it's way more flexible. You don't really need that much for the drum due to only needing 6ft at most off the drum to the diff. So that being said, I'd use whatever a 8k winch would come with. If you need a short length PM me, I have some extra laying around.

 

[Winchested]

I would try to upgrade to the rope and ditch the cable, it's way more flexible. You don't really need that much for the drum due to only needing 6ft at most off the drum to the diff. So that being said, I'd use whatever a 8k winch would come with. If you need a short length PM me, I have some extra laying around.

Thanks.

So far this is what I have come up with. It's mounted, I sleeved the frame for the 2 1/2" bolts.

Wired it up off the starter solenoid to a small winch wolid state contacter, negative to the engine block. (all 8 ga wire) only a 2k winch.

 

[chaplinfj60]

if you can mount it side ways like that pic, maybe you can use 2" wide tow strap and cut the loop off on end and spool it in there. i did that on a winch for a snow plow and no more rope breaking.

but it may not work due to the angle.
so then upgrade the rope to something big as shit that will fit on the winch. you wont need alot. one jeeper did this about 5 years ago and i believe it worked ok form the side. but i also never asked about it.

 

[maveric]

Only issue with crossing frame rails is the extra load the winch/rope and frame rails will see. The wider the angle, the more stress in everything. For example take a 100lb weight (axle) hanging from an anchor (winch).
If the winch rope runs straight down from center, directly to the axle (single line), the load is 100 lbs.
Double the line with a pulley back to winch, each line is holding 50lbs.
Now increase the angle between the winch and the anchor (winch in one frame rail, anchor on the other) and depending on the angle of the rope at the axle, the flatter it gets, the more load.

Forces by Rope Angle (100-Pound Load)
0°	50 lb.
45°	54 lb.
90°	71 lb.
120°	100 lb.
140°	146 lb.
150°	193 lb.
160°	288 lb.
170°	574 lb.

I would guess your angle will be closer to the 120-150 range when sucked down. So EACH leg of the rope will be holding 1-200 lbs for a 100lb load.

So depending on the height from anchor point to axle mount, and distance between frame rails, I would recommend changing to a heavy winch rope as mentioned above.

 

[Winchested]

Only issue with crossing frame rails is the extra load the winch/rope and frame rails will see. The wider the angle, the more stress in everything. For example take a 100lb weight (axle) hanging from an anchor (winch).
If the winch rope runs straight down from center, directly to the axle (single line), the load is 100 lbs.
Double the line with a pulley back to winch, each line is holding 50lbs.
Now increase the angle between the winch and the anchor (winch in one frame rail, anchor on the other) and depending on the angle of the rope at the axle, the flatter it gets, the more load.

Forces by Rope Angle (100-Pound Load)
0°	50 lb.
45°	54 lb.
90°	71 lb.
120°	100 lb.
140°	146 lb.
150°	193 lb.
160°	288 lb.
170°	574 lb.

I would guess your angle will be closer to the 120-150 range when sucked down. So EACH leg of the rope will be holding 1-200 lbs for a 100lb load.

So depending on the height from anchor point to axle mount, and distance between frame rails, I would recommend changing to a heavy winch rope as mentioned above.

Yes, the angles def suck...

Only place to mount it unfortunately.

Ill step up to the biggest rope I can physically fit thru the drum (like I said the rope mounts through the drum not bolted to it.)

What I'm doing is cutting three 7/8" eye bolts in half and using those instead of pulley's, will weld the two on the frame rails to 1/4 plate and then the frame, and the one on the diff welded with a bit of angle to get the most surface area possible on the weld.

 

[Poke]

can you build a bracket that holds back to back fair leads angled out?

It will need to be 3/8th steel.

I ripped the front off my 4400 by not having direct vertical rope. It went over a .120 bar and ripped the bar off the axle taking other things off. It’s a lot of force.

 

[Winchested]

can you build a bracket that holds back to back fair leads angled out?

It will need to be 3/8th steel.

I ripped the front off my 4400 by not having direct vertical rope. It went over a .120 bar and ripped the bar off the axle taking other things off. It’s a lot of force.

I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at. Are you saying come straight out of winch flat and then 90 down to the axle under the pan? I don't have clearance for that under the oil pan skid.

 

[Poke]

It looks like a flat steel bar goes across, cut a fair lead hole in it, the put one on each side bolting the fair leads together and sandwiching the bar

 

[Poke]

Never mind, after looking at the pictures a whole, it won’t work

 

[maveric]

I think your idea of going across the frame will work, you just need to plan accordingly. A buddy had it like that on his 4runner because there wasn’t any other option. Atv Winch mounted to driver rail, down to a pulley mounted to a screw link welded to the diff, and back up to pass rail. It worked ok, better than nothing. But the pulley broke (cheap hardware store pulley) and the stock cable (not rope) broke a few times.
Moderate wheeling rig.

 

[Winchested]

Well got this shit all sorted today!

With the 1/4" cable doubled up it is decent. Sucks down til the bumpstop start to touch the top of my leaf spring plates.

I will def do a heavier synthetic cable. I could potentially do a 5/16 or 3/8 if I split it in half where it goes through the drum and then use the FID tool and weave it back in on itself.


How many wraps should I keep on the drum?

Right now I have 10 ft of cable on there and about 5 full wraps on the drum.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

So I just remembered a trick I've seen on rc crawlers and maybe once on a full size rig.

Run the rope through the inside of some Dom. You can bend it however you need and not worry about it slipping off a pulley. Even 1" Dom would probably be fine.

 

[Winchested]

So I just remembered a trick I've seen on rc crawlers and maybe once on a full size rig.

Run the rope through the inside of some Dom. You can bend it however you need and not worry about it slipping off a pulley. Even 1" Dom would probably be fine.

No pulleys used. Used 7/8" eye bolts cut down to hoops, welded 2 into my steering box brace and 1 to the center of the diff tube. Tons of clearance for my skid plate and diff breather/ air locker tube.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

No pulleys used. Used 7/8" eye bolts cut down to hoops, welded 2 into my steering box brace and 1 to the center of the diff tube. Tons of clearance for my skid plate and diff breather/ air locker tube.

I didn't even see the left hand side of it.

Sorry, but I'm betting that won't last one trail. It's one thing to run cable over a hawse fairlead at a 30-45* angle, but 180* plus the 2 passing each other I can't see working.

 

[Winchested]

I didn't even see the left hand side of it.

Sorry, but I'm betting that won't last one trail. It's one thing to run cable over a hawse fairlead at a 30-45* angle, but 180* plus the 2 passing each other I can't see working.

We will see. Ordered a 5/16 synthetic rope for it last night.

I only want it for climbing steep inclines where my front would unload stupid bad cause of the leaf springs.

 

[Muckin_Slusher]

Fingered I'd ask this question here, since the thread is about winch packaging.

Can you pull from any direction with a modern tie rod/planetary winch (such as XD9000I or a regular ATV winch). I do NOT mean wrapping the rope the wrong way and pulling when the winch thinks it's paying out (which would burn up brakes or make them inoperative).

To be clear, normally the rope gets pulled from the bottom of the drum near the mounting bolts. Could you also pull from the other direction (top of the drum pulling backwards).

How about straight up, so the mounting bolts would be in tension instead of shear?

Do ATV winches even have brakes?

Question does NOT apply to 8427 winches, as I doubt the loose drum support was designed for any funny pull directions other than forward.

 

[Sean]

Fingered I'd ask this question here, since the thread is about winch packaging.

Can you pull from any direction with a modern tie rod/planetary winch (such as XD9000I or a regular ATV winch). I do NOT mean wrapping the rope the wrong way and pulling when the winch thinks it's paying out (which would burn up brakes or make them inoperative).

To be clear, normally the rope gets pulled from the bottom of the drum near the mounting bolts. Could you also pull from the other direction (top of the drum pulling backwards).

How about straight up, so the mounting bolts would be in tension instead of shear?

Do ATV winches even have brakes?

Question does NOT apply to 8427 winches, as I doubt the loose drum support was designed for any funny pull directions other than forward.

Since I want to mount a new Warn 12K under the bed of my tow rig so I can potentially haul things onto the trailer I have a similar question.

B/c of size constraints, I want to mount the feet of the winch vertically on a rear crossmember and build the rear bumper/fairlead around it.

Looking at the winch manual and diagram on the winch itself, it appears that you just have to ensure you wrap the cable onto the drum in such a way that you don't change that relationship between pulling and powering out regardless of the physical position of the winch, but I'm not 100% sure.

 

[RPS1030]

Since I want to mount a new Warn 12K under the bed of my tow rig so I can potentially haul things onto the trailer I have a similar question.

B/c of size constraints, I want to mount the feet of the winch vertically on a rear crossmember and build the rear bumper/fairlead around it.

Looking at the winch manual and diagram on the winch itself, it appears that you just have to ensure you wrap the cable onto the drum in such a way that you don't change that relationship between pulling and powering out regardless of the physical position of the winch, but I'm not 100% sure.

Feet forward (towards the pull) should be fine.

Pulling off the top of the drum or straight up are going to push the feet and hardware more than the other orientations.

 

[Sean]

Feet forward (towards the pull) should be fine.

Pulling off the top of the drum or straight up are going to push the feet and hardware more than the other orientations.

I've got it feet backward right now....may have to rethink this whole thing.

 

[Muckin_Slusher]

This is the winch I'll be using.

Seems pretty easy to add some support on those top two tie rods and I'm 100% sure I could pull from any direction 360 degrees around the winch.

 

[Sean]

Sent to Warn Tech:

Hi, I'm mounting one of your EVO VR12 winches on the back of my 2002 Dodge Ram 2500 4x4s. I've boxed in the rear frame rails and want to mount the winch with the feet of the winch on the rearward most vertical face of my new frame crossmember that will make up the new rear bumper. I'd like to mount it with what is normally the 'front' of the winch facing up. I'll be remote mounting the solenoid control box and the cable will be coming out of what would normally be the "top" of the winch.

Is there anything special I need to know about which way to spool the cable onto the drum in this mounting orientation?

Thanks.

Their reply:

Hi, Sean

As long as you keep the rope spooled on the drum the same as it came from the factory, you will be ok. This will allow the brake to operate correctly.



Thank you, Shawn