Ford V10 and 5 star tunes

[skyhiranger]

A couple of years ago I bought a SCT tuner from 5 star with 87 tow, 87 economy and 87 performance tunes for my '01 F350 CC LB dually with auto and V10 2V and 4.30 gears.
Only mods to the truck are, exhaust Y-pipe, Magnaflow cat, Flowmaster 70 series Big Block Muffler, mandrel bend tailpipe...which I told them about when I bought the tuner (they ask for a list of mods, so they can tweak their generic tunes, I guess?).
Engine runs good with no known issues. Had about 78K on it when I bought the tuner. Has 8xxxx on it now.
My truck is used for towing/hauling. I usually run 65-70 @ 2300-2500ish RPM. It either pulls a 31' toyhauler with my samurai in it or 4 wheelers, or a 26' gooseneck with a couple of vehicles or logs for firewood, or a small car trailer with 4 wheelers or a small vehicle on it. So generally I am not towing that heavy...maybe 12K trailer (toyhauler) weight average (truck weighs 8Kish). I once had a large load of logs on the 26' gooseneck and was grossing almost 32K (that was before the tuner and it actually pulled fine...didn't know it was that heavy until I rolled across the scales.

After I installed the tow tune, I really didn't notice any difference, other than it held a gear longer (engine revved higher) before it upshifts and it upshifts harder/faster. I didn't notice any difference in hp/torque/etc. or it towing/pulling stuff any "easier". I actually don't really like the tow tune shift points in some situations (hard to get it to upshift into OD sometimes, when the engine obviously isn't struggling), so I have ran the economy tune a few times when towing, for the better 3rd-OD upshift point (that I prefer), and there is no noticeable difference in HP/torque between the tow tune and the economy tune, that I can tell.

Before I bought the tuner, I read posts on several forums about how it was a very noticeable improvement after installing a 5 star tune on a V10. I just haven't seen it, in my situation.

What am I missing? Does the tune need to be tweaked? Should I not expect any noticeable HP/torque improvements, given it is a 2V V10 with a 4 speed auto? Are the 5 star tunes not all they are hyped up to be? The tuner has datalogging capabilities...do I need to do that while towing and send that to 5 star and see if they can tweak the tune to better suit my towing situation?

 

[welndmn]

I have a 5 star tune on my V10 Class C motorhome, the only difference I noticed was the transmission shifting, but I like that.

 

[Derp]

Real world experiences like yours are why I have held off on going to them for a tune/tuner for my own truck. For every 4 people who say the 5star tunes make it like driving a whole new truck, there is one like you who say you couldn't really notice any difference. Most raving reviews I've read don't really include any meaningful analysis of what the tune does like mpg, throttle response, shift points, they just say "OMG it's so great" so I have to wonder if it's just a case of car guys perceiving it to be good because they spent a lot of money on it. I also wonder how much of any actual performance gains are anything more than the tuner just telling the throttle to open more than it used to when you hit the pedal.

 

[skyhiranger]

Real world experiences like yours are why I have held off on going to them for a tune/tuner for my own truck. For every 4 people who say the 5star tunes make it like driving a whole new truck, there is one like you who say you couldn't really notice any difference. Most raving reviews I've read don't really include any meaningful analysis of what the tune does like mpg, throttle response, shift points, they just say "OMG it's so great" so I have to wonder if it's just a case of car guys perceiving it to be good because they spent a lot of money on it. I also wonder how much of any actual performance gains are anything more than the tuner just telling the throttle to open more than it used to when you hit the pedal.

Yeah, I just wonder if most of the "OMG" reviews are from people with the 3V V10 vs. a 2V V10 like mine? Maybe the combo of the 3V and the 5 speed auto tranny instead of the 4 speed auto like I have is what makes the difference on whether or not you can tell a noticeable difference with the tune and without. Or maybe they are MH people and the MH engines are detuned even more than the F-series engines?

I just ran across this thread from someone that seems to know something about tuning and what he said about the 5 star tunes, made a lot of sense and seems to correlate with my experience. If what he is saying is true, I am not sure how anyone notices the huge difference when they use a 5 star tune in their V10. Maybe it is all mental and they "think" there will be a huge difference, so they convince themselves there is. Maybe simply the firmer shifts is what convinces people there is a huge engine performance increase?

FACTS about Ford V10 Engine Characteristics and 5 Star Tuning... - Thor Forums

I'm questioning my sanity here but there's SO MUCH misinformation on this site about technical issues that I felt compelled to straighten out some of

www.thorforums.com

 

[pennsylvaniaboy]

I have nearly the same setup in my excursion.....I have been tempted many times by what I have read about 5 star, but I have never been able to pull the trigger for your exact experience...

If i am towing flat ground I usually let it do its thang....but in the mountains I shift that nearly like a manual and let it eat at like 4500rpm 1st gear or 2nd gear...

 

[AK_F250]

Yeah, I just wonder if most of the "OMG" reviews are from people with the 3V V10 vs. a 2V V10 like mine? Maybe the combo of the 3V and the 5 speed auto tranny instead of the 4 speed auto like I have is what makes the difference on whether or not you can tell a noticeable difference with the tune and without. Or maybe they are MH people and the MH engines are detuned even more than the F-series engines?

When I was RV shopping I was told by a couple people that the E series V10 was detuned due to heat, but I don't know how accurate that is. I don't think they got the 3V until later which may be where that comes from.

Following along because my 2V F53 chassis class A is hurting in the power department when towing, and on fuel mileage anytime its running

 

[skyhiranger]

When I was RV shopping I was told by a couple people that the E series V10 was detuned due to heat, but I don't know how accurate that is. I don't think they got the 3V until later which may be where that comes from.

Following along because my 2V F53 chassis class A is hurting in the power department when towing, and on fuel mileage anytime its running

One thing I have read, is don't expect a tune to change your MPG...either up or down.
In my experience, MPG stayed the same...basically 7 MPG when towing, whether it is 8K or 15K. If I am pulling a small car trailer (~2K empty), I can sometimes get 9-10 MPG.
I never use cruise, as in any vehicle I have ever owned, I can get just as good, or better, MPG by driving it with my own foot.

 

[AK_F250]

One thing I have read, is don't expect a tune to change your MPG...either up or down.
In my experience, MPG stayed the same...basically 7 MPG when towing, whether it is 8K or 15K. If I am pulling a small car trailer (~2K empty), I can sometimes get 9-10 MPG.
I never use cruise, as in any vehicle I have ever owned, I can get just as good, or better, MPG by driving it with my own foot.

Shit I'd be happy to get 6 without a trailer in my huge brick

In mid single digits you'd think there would be a little improvement?

 

[skyhiranger]

Shit I'd be happy to get 6 without a trailer in my huge brick

In mid single digits you'd think there would be a little improvement?

Just going by what I have read/heard...don't expect any MPG increase. But I also read/heard that a 5 star tune will make a huge improvement...so take that FWIW.
I have read/heard of a few people picking up .5 (that is half) a MPG by the tune getting it into OD. But I think that is the later MHs with the 6 speed auto. I guess they normally run in 5th until you get over 68 MPH or so. And the tune also gets rid of the 6-4 kickdown. So that evidently helps a little bit, when it goes to 5th instead of 4th.

 

[Derp]

Yeah, I just wonder if most of the "OMG" reviews are from people with the 3V V10 vs. a 2V V10 like mine? Maybe the combo of the 3V and the 5 speed auto tranny instead of the 4 speed auto like I have is what makes the difference on whether or not you can tell a noticeable difference with the tune and without. Or maybe they are MH people and the MH engines are detuned even more than the F-series engines?

I just ran across this thread from someone that seems to know something about tuning and what he said about the 5 star tunes, made a lot of sense and seems to correlate with my experience. If what he is saying is true, I am not sure how anyone notices the huge difference when they use a 5 star tune in their V10. Maybe it is all mental and they "think" there will be a huge difference, so they convince themselves there is. Maybe simply the firmer shifts is what convinces people there is a huge engine performance increase?

FACTS about Ford V10 Engine Characteristics and 5 Star Tuning... - Thor Forums

I'm questioning my sanity here but there's SO MUCH misinformation on this site about technical issues that I felt compelled to straighten out some of

www.thorforums.com

Wow thats a great link with a ton of information, and that guy reinforces what I suspected, that a lot of the performance people feel is just remapping the throttle response.

I was going to guess that the differences from tuning would be more noticeable on a 2V. I have a 3V and have no complaints about the shifting of the 5 speed when towing, I suppose it can be a little slow to shift when driving empty though.

I guess that settles it for me on a tuner, to get better performance I'll just use more throttle and spend the tuner money on gas!

 

[granitestatedestroyer]

I have an SCT sitting around from my 6.0 days. I was thinking about a tune for the new to me v10. Sounds like it's not worth it though.


Maybe a pedal commander just to help with the throttle response a bit? ?

 

[skyhiranger]

Wow thats a great link with a ton of information, and that guy reinforces what I suspected, that a lot of the performance people feel is just remapping the throttle response.

I was going to guess that the differences from tuning would be more noticeable on a 2V. I have a 3V and have no complaints about the shifting of the 5 speed when towing, I suppose it can be a little slow to shift when driving empty though.

I guess that settles it for me on a tuner, to get better performance I'll just use more throttle and spend the tuner money on gas!

He evidently had a similar thread on irv2.com (the link is in post #51 of his thread I linked above). I think he goes by twinboat over there, from what I can gather reading some of the posts of "twinboat" (posts on 5 Star tunes have the same tone as in his thread from thorforums). But I'm guessing it got removed, or conveniently "lost" since there seems to be a lot of 5 Star worshippers on that site. You have to be a member on the irv2 site (and I am), but it just gives me a "you do not have permission to access this page" message, when I try to get to it.

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Since I've paid for the tuner, I'll probably contact 5 star in a couple of months (when it gets closer to camping season) and see if they can remap the shift points to better suit me, since that appears to be the only "improvements" I am going to see from my $400 investment.
It shouldn't cost me anything, for them to tweak the tune, from what I have read.
Oh well, I've wasted more money on less.

 

[skyhiranger]

I have an SCT sitting around from my 6.0 days. I was thinking about a tune for the new to me v10. Sounds like it's not worth it though.


Maybe a pedal commander just to help with the throttle response a bit? ?

Basically better shift points to suit your style of towing/driving is the only benefit you are going to see out of it, IMO. And that is really only if you have a 4 or 5 speed auto. Most of what I have been reading from people that have the 6 speed auto say the tuner isn't worth it.
If the SCT is compatible with the V10, you probably just need to buy a tune...which I think is ~$65ish. I guess they do also have to set up the tune or the tuner to match your ECM strategy (which you get from connecting the tuner to your OBD port). Not sure if that is included in the price of a tune or not.