Engine stand mods for Jeep 4.0l?

[Ravenbar]

I've repeatedly read that most engine stands are inadequate to hold a 4.0l due to the long cast iron block applying leverage, bending the upright.

I acquired this stand with the intention of modifying it for the task. Previous owner didn't think it would be a problem, saying it held a 460 just fine. The stand is made of 3" tubing(not particularly thick walled, so I'm assuming its standard wall tubing.) In my head I've been debating if it's a homemade stand, or just an unmarked factory build stand. The original welds seem decent, but it's covered in crappy/failed welds as well.

I'd like to upgrade this stand, with the intention of holding a 4.0l Jeep engine destine for my '02 WJ.

The one modification I've figured out is to put a hand wheel on the rotation, possibly with a gearbox. Plan for that is to notch the front faceplate and weld in a piece of 5/8" solid square with a hole tapped in it(across the center tube), then notch the rear of the tube, and have the hand wheel/gearbox assembly bolt to the back of the pivot tube, keyed to both the front and back of the tube. I'd got a 90deg gearbox off a retractable awning if I go the gearbox route.

That's not mu biggest concern however, as it doesn't address the folding upright issue. To address this issue, I've though about some sort of outboard support, basically second faceplate on the front of the engine, which ties into the front leg of the stand. Obviously I'd have to create a rotation point in line with the first(thinking wheel bearing hub, as I've got a few of those in the scrap pile and it would allow different mount plates for the front of different engines), and the assembly would have to be removable, to install/remove engines from the stand, and it'd have to be a a relatively precise between the face plates to hold that particular engine(leaving room for future relocation of the outboard upright for different engines.) I do have a spare engine, that runs according to the person I got it from(I couldn't get it running in the vehicle I pulled it from, but I later found the fuel pump was disconnected, after I pulled the engine.) I don't have an engine crane(haven't found a decent used one for sale locally in the 2 years I've been searching, and buying new hasn't been in the budget) at the house right now, so getting the engine onto the stand isn't possible.

I will say I'm prone to severely overthink things, so maybe It's just fine as is.

 

[Byro]

I’ve stuck em on stands without issue. And some were even more sketchy looking than the one you got there.

 

[Beat95yj]

Run it

 

[Twankie]

Build adapter plate to bolt the stand to the side of the block instead of the bellhousing. Less overhang

 

[Ravenbar]

My big concern isn't the short term engine rebuild time frame, but rather a long term storage time frame. The spare engine is currently sitting in a crappy wooden stand I threw together to hold if after I opportunistically pulled it from a donor vehicle($400 for all the parts I could pull off it, needed transmission/transfer case).

 

[rockota]

For storage, cut a piece of 2x4 and put under the front of the oil pan as a leg to the engine stand. Done.

 

[92 Green YJ]

Looks like the harbor freight stand I used for mine. Held ok. Rotating was a bitch and I wasn’t comfortable with the idea of flipping it over upside down. I stopped close to sideways and did the bottom end stuff like that.

 

[TrikeKid]

If it's had a 460 on it and didn't fold up I'd be inclined to believe it's okay for a 4.0. I've had a 4.2 on a sketchier stand than that and it was fine. Frame wise other than being 3 wheel instead of a 2 leg/4 wheel that looks real similar to my OTC 1,000lb stand.

 

[billybob_81067]

If you're concerned about it you could take a piece of square tubing that will fit over the frame and notch the ends to make a brace/gusset for the stand that would greatly increase it's stiffness.

That is exactly what I did to this one before putting an International D436 on it...

Also have added a worm gearbox to HF engine stands. I've fixed up 3 of them this way.

 

[snivilous]

I would at least weld a front bar with some casters on. 3 leg stands sketch me out, 4 legs are sketchy enough and scary to move around, let alone something with such a small foot print. I would get a 4 leg or convert it, but to each their own. The HF 4 leg I've been happy with, I bought it even though I had a 3 leg laying around but I didn't trust it rotating the engine or hitting a zip tie rolling it around and falling over.

 

[Ravenbar]

Just an update to this old thread

Still haven't modified the stand. Had a 4.0 on it a few weeks back, as the #4 piston lost it's skirt into the pan. The stand heald it, but tipped a good 10-15 degrees downward with the full weight, so I used the hoist with a strap under the oilpan to help hold the weight while I swapped the parts around between the 2 engines only putting the full load on the stand when needed to swap the oilpan and valve cover over. I did not rotate the engine, nor think I ever would, try with a long block 4.0, as the best pivot point attainable with the mounting plate is still rather low.

I have picked up some new wheels for the stand, as when I was getting it set up, I noticed the read straight caster frames were badly kinked inward, so the wheel was still vertical, but jambed up and wouldn't turn. I sledge hammered them straight for the time being, as they were welded to the stand. The front will be getting modified with a 1/2" shaft welded through it, with lawn mower type wheels rated at 1100lb's each on both sides. The rear wheels will be switched over to 330lb rated swivel casters.

Another issue I've noticed it that the upright has a single bolt pinching it into place, and the way it's set up, the engine weight crushed the bolt unto the upright tube. A previous owner had the upright welded in place, and also welded the front leg in place, The front leg welds have held up, but the uprights welds were already broke when I got it. As I'd still like to be able to take the stand apart, I'll be somehow reinforcing the area the bolt presses on with a much thicker piece of plate.

Another thing I noticed, which makes me wonder what this stand was used for in the past, is that the upper 2 attachment bars, made of solid 3/4" square bar, are bent slightly. Previous owner did say he'd had some large V8's on it, when I questioned if it would hold up to a 4.0.

I'm also still thinking of how I can add a support structure to the front to hold up the front of the engine. The engine is longer than the front leg, so an extention, then an upright of some sort is needed. My primary focus now is getting the Jeep running again(as the new engines in but not fully hooked up, I suspect that will be done this weekend, my back and the weather cooperating, and if I don't have any unexpected bad sensors or broken parts, and if the second set of motor mounts I've ordered actually fit(the stand I built for the old block interferes with the motor mount location so I can't check on it). I do now have a spare 4.0 engine block to use to build off, so hopefully I'll find the time this summer to build. I also hope to yank the other spare engine I've got, that has over 250k on it, out of it's donor, and once I find a place for the parts/junk stored in that one, it's going away. I'm also considering adding a front crossbar, making it a 4 wheeled stand.

That engine will likely become the one(which drove itself to where it's parked, but the body's rotted out) stored on this stand, as I've yet to figure out what I'm doing with the blown one at this point. The block seems in rather good condition for having had a destroyed piston run for ~60miles(looking back, I think I know when the breakage first started, as the normal "death rattle" the Jeeps had for years doubled in speed for a couple seconds when I accelerated uphill from a stoplight on Sunday going grocery shopping, but rapidly returned to it's normal intensity, although it did normally go away once the engine got to temp, and it didn't that day. Drove to work the next day, and decided the noise was bad enough to take a day off the next day and investigate. Coworkers doubted I'd make it home from the knocking it was making. When I pulled the head, I found marks indicating the piston was tilting in the bore enough that one edge was striking the head slightly.

 

[Ravenbar]

I would at least weld a front bar with some casters on. 3 leg stands sketch me out, 4 legs are sketchy enough and scary to move around, let alone something with such a small foot print. I would get a 4 leg or convert it, but to each their own. The HF 4 leg I've been happy with, I bought it even though I had a 3 leg laying around but I didn't trust it rotating the engine or hitting a zip tie rolling it around and falling over.

I just posted an update to the thread,. as the stand was just sitting out back until needed a couple weeks back(the end of April, Thumpers engine started knocking hard. Upon investigation, I found the piston in cyclinder #4 had dropped more than half it's skirt into the oilpan, and the piston was cocking in the bore enough to be tapping the head every time it topped out. .

In that post, I did note that I'll be doing some modifications to the stand when time allows. One I'm considering is adding crossbar onto the front of the front/back lag, making it a 4 wheeled stand. My one limiting factor is that I recently bought a splayed leg engine hoist, and the 3 wheel design allows the 3 to mate up easily, and in my case, I used both the stand and hoist, with a ratchet strap holding them together to move the spare engine to the front of the garage. If/when I modify the stand, the crossbar will be designed to a width that it still allows a full mating with the hoist. I'll also be building a leg extension/front support. With this I'm not concerned about rotating the engine on the stand, so keeping the 2 rotation points in line isn't a concern, although if I had a way to predict where the rotation point was, I've got plenty of old wheel bearings I could use as the pivot.

 

[Ravenbar]

If you're concerned about it you could take a piece of square tubing that will fit over the frame and notch the ends to make a brace/gusset for the stand that would greatly increase it's stiffness.

That is exactly what I did to this one before putting an International D436 on it...

Also have added a worm gearbox to HF engine stands. I've fixed up 3 of them this way.

That's a good idea(on the bracing). I'm now in the motor swap process I bought the stand for, and when the full load of the engine was on the stand, there was a good 10-20 degrees of droop from the weight. As I didn't intend to rotate the engine, I used the hoist to support enough of the load to keep the engine relatively level.

Any more info on the gearbox mod? From what I'm seeing on the stand I have, I can't see a gearbox mod working, while still having the engine plate be removable.

 

[Ravenbar]

If it's had a 460 on it and didn't fold up I'd be inclined to believe it's okay for a 4.0. I've had a 4.2 on a sketchier stand than that and it was fine. Frame wise other than being 3 wheel instead of a 2 leg/4 wheel that looks real similar to my OTC 1,000lb stand.

The leverage action of such a long engine is the issue, not the weight. If you are reffering to a Jeep 4.2, it's literaly the same engine with a different head design.

 

[Etyler2]

The worst part is the tricycle. If you spend any time at all add legs and casters.

 

[arse_sidewards]

I've repeatedly read that most engine stands are inadequate to hold a 4.0l due to the long cast iron block applying leverage, bending the upright.

Ignore the dumbass Reddit bullshit.

I've had a fully dressed 300 on the shitty 3-wheel Harbor Freight stand and other than being unstable and real shitty to roll the stand took it fine.

The leverage action of such a long engine is the issue, not the weight. If you are reffering to a Jeep 4.2, it's literaly the same engine with a different head design.

You don't understand how big a 460 is.

You're making a problem out of nothing.

 

[Gravy]

The cheap stands don't like scout 345 engines. All I know

 

[Pony_Driver]

If you're concerned about it you could take a piece of square tubing that will fit over the frame and notch the ends to make a brace/gusset for the stand that would greatly increase it's stiffness.

That is exactly what I did to this one before putting an International D436 on it...

Also have added a worm gearbox to HF engine stands. I've fixed up 3 of them this way.

Where did you get that gear box?

 

[M92PV4U]

Put bigger tires on it .

 

[Lbhsbz]

Make it a 4 wheel stand, you'll be fine.

 

[billybob_81067]

Where did you get that gear box?

I got three of them off surpluscenter.com They were the last of those three they had so they were discounted to get rid of them. Basically any appropriately sized worm gearbox would work though. Just gotta adapt your output shaft to your engine stand tube and make a mount to bolt the box to.

This one would work. 50:1 Right Angle Cast Iron Worm Gear Reducer 0.44 HP Right Output IPTS | Cast Iron Shaft Input Gear Reducers | Gear Reducers & Gearboxes | Power Transmission | www.surpluscenter.com

Or if you have any industrial style or equipment scrap yards around I bet you could source something used even cheaper.

 

[Grendel]

I like and use these a lot: https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/NLE7915070

or

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Get fast, Free Standard Shipping on orders over Atech Motorsports from $425 -- no shipping, handling, or rural fees! Exclusions apply.

www.atechmotorsports.com

I also use these: Summit Racing SUM-918019 Summit Racing™ Engine Stand Adapters | Summit Racing

My time is worth more than they cost.

I've had a Cummins on them, no issues.

 

[billybob_81067]

I like and use these a lot: https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/NLE7915070

or

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www.atechmotorsports.com

I also use these: Summit Racing SUM-918019 Summit Racing™ Engine Stand Adapters | Summit Racing

My time is worth more than they cost.

I've had a Cummins on them, no issues.

Harbor freight also now sells these. https://www.harborfreight.com/autom...-gear-driven-rotating-engine-stand-57745.html

They are higher capacity than the napa ones you listed and cheaper too. If these were an option back in the day I would have probably purchased them with a 20% off coupon rather than add gearboxes to the ones I did buy...

 

[Grendel]

Harbor freight also now sells these. https://www.harborfreight.com/autom...-gear-driven-rotating-engine-stand-57745.html

They are higher capacity than the napa ones you listed and cheaper too. If these were an option back in the day I would have probably purchased them with a 20% off coupon rather than add gearboxes to the ones I did buy...

Those are cool.

Didn't know about them.

What's funny is they're the same (but cheaper) as the Summit Racing ones I linked: Summit Racing SUM-918023 Summit Racing™ Geared HD Engine Stands | Summit Racing - I just used the A-tech site instead, which is Summit Racing wholesale...

 

[PAToyota]

Harbor freight also now sells these. https://www.harborfreight.com/autom...-gear-driven-rotating-engine-stand-57745.html

And only $240 this weekend with the 20% ITC discount.

 

[Ravenbar]

The worst part is the tricycle. If you spend any time at all add legs and casters.

Put bigger tires on it .

The tires I'll be putting on will somehow keep the entire thing level with where it is(less than 1/4" higher), although due to tubing size differences, the front will be getting an crossbar under it, as well as a 3-5" extension in length, so I can add the engine front support to the Jeep 4.0 block(plan is for long term storage, so need stability)

I like and use these a lot: https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/NLE7915070

or

Login

Get fast, Free Standard Shipping on orders over Atech Motorsports from $425 -- no shipping, handling, or rural fees! Exclusions apply.

www.atechmotorsports.com

I also use these: Summit Racing SUM-918019 Summit Racing™ Engine Stand Adapters | Summit Racing

My time is worth more than they cost.

I've had a Cummins on them, no issues.

My time is cheap, as the sub-40hr's per week I put in at work are so stressful, that I couldn't fathom spending an extra minute there, while I've also got the stress of getting the Jeep fixed.

Harbor freight also now sells these. https://www.harborfreight.com/autom...-gear-driven-rotating-engine-stand-57745.html

They are higher capacity than the napa ones you listed and cheaper too. If these were an option back in the day I would have probably purchased them with a 20% off coupon rather than add gearboxes to the ones I did buy...

I've already got the engine stand I have, and I'm not planning on rebuilding another engine for a good long while. IN this case, I simply used it to hold the old ans new(used) engines stable while I swapped over parts from one to the other. My goal with this upgrade to the engine stand it so mount either the old block, or more likely the other spare engine(w/ 250k+ on it), on a wheeled stand, so it can be tucked in the corner of the garage and forgotten about until the unlikely event I ever need it(due to underbody rust, I was insane to even swap the engine this time, other than having the parts on hand, and that I think I can get a few more years out of this rig.)

And only $240 this weekend with the 20% ITC discount.

$240 is in my opinion vastly too expensive for an engine stand. I could buy a few short scraps of 4" c-channel(for flat surfaces to mount casters to), cut up the 2wd '87 Ford Ranger driveshaft in the scrap bin, and prehaps a old Jeep WJ driveshaft or 2 as well, and build and engine stand for under $50, plus having the relaxation time to design/build the stand.

I renewed my ITC membership for 2yrs just after Christmas, and before the end of January, it'd paid for itself. My tool collection is so vast, that other than a used engine hoist, and a 2 ton engine leveler, I haven't had to buy any tools.

I went in tonight to get the 30' retractable test lead set(due to another Jeep project, that's failure is baffling me. I replaced the 12g feed wire to my aux power panel with an 8g oxygen free copper cable. Got everything connected up, and I've got power on the battery end of the cable, but not the other. To rule out a ground issue with my test light, I needed longer test leads than the 36" ones that were my longest. Spent a good while wandering around looking for other goodies to bring home and didn't find any. I'll also mention I'm not happy with them changing the color of the ITC sale tags to white, si I can't walk through aisles looking for the blue tags to see if anything I want but think is overpriced is on sale.

 

[Steve300xcw]

Or if you have any industrial style or equipment scrap yards around I bet you could source something used even cheaper.

Have seen a few stands where they used the splined end of a wore out S cam. Then used a slack adjuster to turn things over.

 

[Lee]

I was at the state's John Deere monopoly headquarters a couple weeks ago. I was supposed to be facilitating but got distracted by the beefy engine stands.

 

[AKnate]

For storage, cut a piece of 2x4 and put under the front of the oil pan as a leg to the engine stand. Done.

Or an old tire on a pallet.

 

[Ravenbar]

Or if you have any industrial style or equipment scrap yards around I bet you could source something used even cheaper.

Nope. Most of the industrial sites around here closed over a decade ago. One, an Alcoa aluminum smelter/foundry simply left everything in place, and years later when the buildings were repurposed, much was taken home by the people doing the cleanout or else scrapped. The other place, a GM Powertrain plant, literally scrapped everything, including new in box items, as selling them would be a liability(I worked with a guy who was there when the closed, and even brand new air compressors went in the scrap bin, The closing was part of the restructuring after the recession of 2008, and with that mentality it's no wonder why they were broke)

I was at the state's John Deere monopoly headquarters a couple weeks ago. I was supposed to be facilitating but got distracted by the beefy engine stands.

I watch C&C Equipments youtube channel, and they have a similar extra beefy stand that's used in many videos, although there can tilt the engine up and down as well.

Or an old tire on a pallet.

I was going to do that, leaving the engine I was installing on the crate I'd built when I stored it, with the old engine on the stand, but found I couldn't get the bolts out of the oil pan that go into the timing cover, so I couldn't swap the timing set. I ended up building a metal crate, as the old wooden one was getting scarily rickety, and was slowly folding over to one side.