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Ending Qualified Immunity

evernoob said:
*Ahem*... *tap*tap*tap*.....

THE UNIONS!

He already said that.





As far as No Knocks, the guidelines for granting such warrants can change. This is a normal part of the legal system, and the function of bodies like the ACLU if they are not busy being taken over by Communists.

The same thing for kneeling on necks: A few targeted lawsuits will compel most Departments to change their mind, and a couple of Federal Appeals cases can blanket change the policy. Then those groups like ACLU clean up the non-compliers.

This is how the system operates, and it operates well. But the ChiComs and Antifa and Leftists have you and everybody else up in arms over it b/c muh based Dope Using Jogger, Floyd George.
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I've been against no knock's since before this year, if the chicoms and Antifa can get those removed, then that is a pretty sad testament to what it takes to get change. the ACLU, man, those fuckers have such an admirable mission statement! It would be awesome if there were an ACLU for the ACLU so that they could attack some shit with parity. lazy commie fucks...
 
Stuck said:
Words by morons that dont understand Qualified Immunity. QI doesnt cover officers who blatantly violate someones civil rights. It doesnt cover officers who intentionally injure or kill someone without cause or didnt follow their policy or training. It doesnt prevent victims from getting compensated "paid" for any of the above. Its not meant to nor should it protect officers who intentionally violate someones rights. If an officer is found to have intentionally violated dept policy then the dept is not obligated to cover the officer under QI.

What QI does is protect officers from being sued by people who got hurt or that may have had their rights violated, BUT only if the officers were following dept policy and or their training. Im not going to argue whether good cops violate rights, or not. It happens. Many of the times its unintentionally, during split second decisions or the officer was following dept policy which was the determined to be in violation or outdated. As an example if it is decided that the officer violated someones rights, but they followed the depts use of force policy and his training, the officer is protected under QI and the dept will be the defendant. In that case it is the depts fault for not having up to date policies or providing the proper training to ensure officers know the current law. That is what QI is for. Apparently certain govt officials dont understand what it is or they are just posturing for political gain.
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Remove QI. Doctors and Nurses don't have it. The Police use it as shield as protection knowing very well it's extremely hard to even discipline them.
 
Stuck said:
Words by morons that dont understand Qualified Immunity. QI doesnt cover officers who blatantly violate someones civil rights. It doesnt cover officers who intentionally injure or kill someone without cause or didnt follow their policy or training. It doesnt prevent victims from getting compensated "paid" for any of the above. Its not meant to nor should it protect officers who intentionally violate someones rights. If an officer is found to have intentionally violated dept policy then the dept is not obligated to cover the officer under QI.

What QI does is protect officers from being sued by people who got hurt or that may have had their rights violated, BUT only if the officers were following dept policy and or their training. Im not going to argue whether good cops violate rights, or not. It happens. Many of the times its unintentionally, during split second decisions or the officer was following dept policy which was the determined to be in violation or outdated. As an example if it is decided that the officer violated someones rights, but they followed the depts use of force policy and his training, the officer is protected under QI and the dept will be the defendant. In that case it is the depts fault for not having up to date policies or providing the proper training to ensure officers know the current law. That is what QI is for. Apparently certain govt officials dont understand what it is or they are just posturing for political gain.
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How many anecdotal links of QI being used to bail out cops who clearly violated civil rights does one need to see before deciding that QI is to easy to use and needs abandoned? I've seen more than enough. QI doesn't even need an overhaul, it needs deleted and something effectively resembling your first paragraph put into place that can't be blanketed over every bad cop because the department would rather protect itself than the public. Bad people need to not be able to wiggle out of trouble, which is the real situation we find ourselves in right now. This bullshit law came to being before everyone was being filmed from multiple angles at every second including police body cams and cell phone cameras. Body cams should give everyone a warm and fuzzy enough feeling that people won't be able to sue their way out of facing legitimate charges on made up "civil rights violations". I'm also all for making the punishment to civilians for filing false reports significantly more painful.
 
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Provience said:
I've been against no knock's since before this year, if the chicoms and Antifa can get those removed, then that is a pretty sad testament to what it takes to get change. the ACLU, man, those fuckers have such an admirable mission statement! It would be awesome if there were an ACLU for the ACLU so that they could attack some shit with parity. lazy commie fucks...
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After Rodney King got the shit kicked out of him because that's how the police used to handle Drunk Driving Violent Felon High Speed Chasers who fought the Police, this country moved to less-than-lethal methods like Pepper Spray and Tasers.

No-knocks and Civil Forfeiture can be ended without riots. There are two reasons why it takes Riots to change the Police in this country:
  • Whites are afraid to stand up against black criminality b/c they'll be called racist, so they like the Cops to beat the shit out of Black men.
  • Rioters went to the rocks and to beating Reginal Denny before the System had a chance to act.
Adults should be able to see this, at least our age. The kiddies I can excuse, they don't remember King and maybe don't read.
 
IH-SSII said:
Remove QI. Doctors and Nurses don't have it. The Police use it as shield as protection knowing very well it's extremely hard to even discipline them.
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Actually Drs and Nurses that work for hospitals do have it. Its the same thing if they follow accepted procedure and policy the hospital steps up to bat. If they dont theyre on their own.

I think some of you dont understand what Qualified Immunity actually is. Its not just up to the dept or agency. Courts have actually determined in many cases whether or not an officer will be covered.

Many of you are lumping other issues under QI. Just because a dept chooses to cover or protect an officer doesnt mean it was because of Qualified Immunity. There could be political, union, or other causes at play (Im not saying it right) and they get lumped by the press and stupid people under the Qualified Immunitiy blanket.

Again for the stupid that dont understand. Actual QI only protects an Officer only IF he acted under policy or his current training. When that happens it shifts the blame to the dept. It doesnt negate the issue or violation it just shifts the fault. QI doesnt mean the victim cant sue, it just directs where the lawsuit is filed. As to punishing the officer how can the dept or even the courts hold an officer responsible it the officer followed the depts or governments own policy or laws? If the officer acted the way the dept, state or .gov told him to act in a certain situation and the court decides that afterwards the policy or direction was wrong how is that officers fault? In other words if an individual follow the rules, but then a higher authority says the rules were wrong, then its the rulemakers fault not the individuals.
 
Provience said:
I've been against no knock's since before this year, if the chicoms and Antifa can get those removed, then that is a pretty sad testament to what it takes to get change. the ACLU, man, those fuckers have such an admirable mission statement! It would be awesome if there were an ACLU for the ACLU so that they could attack some shit with parity. lazy commie fucks...
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No knocks have their place, but I agree there should be a much higher standard and vetting before one is issued.

Well actually there is but some people dont follow the policies. See that individual wouldnt be covered under QI because he didnt follow accepted procedure. But he didnt get fired because the union intervened and covered his ass. Thats a union issue not a QI issue.
 
Stuck said:
Oooh! We got a bad ass up in here!

So what happens when your neighbor whos fucking your wife behind your back, calls you over for a beer and then shoots you in the face? He claims you broke and tried to steal his shit. Hes off scott free because he was defending his property and still fucking your wife. Then what? Whos gonna deal with the crime? Dumbass.
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Sounds like you have a skank wife and douche bag neighbors. :flipoff2:
 
gunracer1 said:
no one will ever join the force, especially in urban areas. hell they don't want to deal with the bull shit now.
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It’ll always attract a certain type of person. And the money ain’t that bad.
 
I'm curious. Am I the only one who doesn't ever call the police anymore? I just wants my right to solve issues with fists, back. Maybe I spend too much time around pack animals. But nature has a very good way for animals to determine their hierarchies. Most of the time, simple posturing is enough. Sometimes a knock-out/drag-out is needed. Usually peace is gained and the group is better for their pecking order.
 
Stuck said:
Oooh! We got a bad ass up in here!

So what happens when your neighbor whos fucking your wife behind your back, calls you over for a beer and then shoots you in the face? He claims you broke and tried to steal his shit. Hes off scott free because he was defending his property and still fucking your wife. Then what? Whos gonna deal with the crime? Dumbass.
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You get a lot of guys fucking your wife or something?
 
Action Fab said:
I'm curious. Am I the only one who doesn't ever call the police anymore? I just wants my right to solve issues with fists, back. Maybe I spend too much time around pack animals. But nature has a very good way for animals to determine their hierarchies. Most of the time, simple posturing is enough. Sometimes a knock-out/drag-out is needed. Usually peace is gained and the group is better for their pecking order.
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Pretty much call the cops to have them fill out the report so you can turn it into your insurance.
 
Provience said:
what is there place? announce with a bullhorn if folks are so paranoid about being at the door
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Ever served a warrant on a drug house or drug lab with armed shitheads? No? Then you dont have the experience to speak from. Im not talking about dead beat dad, or court no shows obviously that shouldnt be a no knock warrant. There are situations where a middle of the night no knock warrant is justified.
 
Stuck said:
Ever served a warrant on a drug house or drug lab with armed shitheads? No? Then you dont have the experience to speak from. Im not talking about dead beat dad, or court no shows obviously that shouldnt be a no knock warrant. There are situations where a middle of the night no knock warrant is justified.
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nope, i haven't.

so nobody get's an opinion unless they've had to do it?

Have you ever been the victim of a no-knock at the wrong address pre-dawn? No? Then you can't even begin to question when somebody says they are bad. <- see how stupid that argument sounds?

I'll trade you no knock warrants for showing up with twice as many people. You knock and they don't want to go in and shit gets hairy hairy? What should you do? Fucking hang out. not everything is fucking waco or chris dorner and needs to end with a bonfire of death because cops are impatient.
 
Action Fab said:
I'm curious. Am I the only one who doesn't ever call the police anymore? I just wants my right to solve issues with fists, back. Maybe I spend too much time around pack animals. But nature has a very good way for animals to determine their hierarchies. Most of the time, simple posturing is enough. Sometimes a knock-out/drag-out is needed. Usually peace is gained and the group is better for their pecking order.
Click to expand...

Pack animals? You hang around with cops?
 
Provience said:
nope, i haven't.

so nobody get's an opinion unless they've had to do it?

Have you ever been the victim of a no-knock at the wrong address pre-dawn? No? Then you can't even begin to question when somebody says they are bad. <- see how stupid that argument sounds?

I'll trade you no knock warrants for showing up with twice as many people. You knock and they don't want to go in and shit gets hairy hairy? What should you do? Fucking hang out. not everything is fucking waco or chris dorner and needs to end with a bonfire of death because cops are impatient.
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I didnt say you didnt have the right to an opinion just that you dont have the experience to say that they should be banned completely.

I also stated that noknocks should require stricter standards and be vetted more thoroughly.

Yeah thats a brilliant tactical plan. Surround a house filled with armed shitheads with illegal weapons and felony quantities of heroin or meth, in the middle of a neighborhood or across from a school and wait for them to get cranked up and start shooting through the windows. Or maybe knock on the door and announce and wait while they arm up and take cover shooting people as they come through the door with stray rounds hitting innocent bystanders across the street

Or you go in early in the morning smash the door, announce who you are while the shitheads are sleeping. It eliminates some of the danger to the officers, the neighborhood and even the shitheads themselves. They most certainly have their place BUT they should also be used only when necessary.
 
Stuck said:
I didnt say you didnt have the right to an opinion just that you dont have the experience to say that they should be banned completely.

I also stated that noknocks should require stricter standards and be vetted more thoroughly.

Yeah thats a brilliant tactical plan. Surround a house filled with armed shitheads with illegal weapons and felony quantities of heroin or meth, in the middle of a neighborhood or across from a school and wait for them to get cranked up and start shooting through the windows. Or maybe knock on the door and announce and wait while they arm up and take cover shooting people as they come through the door with stray rounds hitting innocent bystanders across the street

Or you go in early in the morning smash the door, announce who you are while the shitheads are sleeping. It eliminates some of the danger to the officers, the neighborhood and even the shitheads themselves. They most certainly have their place BUT they should also be used only when necessary.
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https://abc13.com/harding-street-raid-botched-hpd/5885310/
 
Stuck said:
I didnt say you didnt have the right to an opinion just that you dont have the experience to say that they should be banned completely.

I also stated that noknocks should require stricter standards and be vetted more thoroughly.

Yeah thats a brilliant tactical plan. Surround a house filled with armed shitheads with illegal weapons and felony quantities of heroin or meth, in the middle of a neighborhood or across from a school and wait for them to get cranked up and start shooting through the windows. Or maybe knock on the door and announce and wait while they arm up and take cover shooting people as they come through the door with stray rounds hitting innocent bystanders across the street

Or you go in early in the morning smash the door, announce who you are while the shitheads are sleeping. It eliminates some of the danger to the officers, the neighborhood and even the shitheads themselves. They most certainly have their place BUT they should also be used only when necessary.
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You don't have the experience to say that they have a place. :flipoff2:

do the tweakers never leave? are they all bin fucking laden? I'd rather pay for extra officers and overtime than have even 1 wrong address or wrongly identified or child instead of a dog get killed.

yes, i will accept a good bit of risk in exchange for limiting deaths against citizens caused directly by agents of the state.

hell, we can start with just working on them and getting actual reviews before issuing and actual accountability to them. then we can move on to eliminating them once officers get comfortable figuring out a different way for most of their shithead busts
 
Provience said:
You don't have the experience to say that they have a place. :flipoff2:

do the tweakers never leave? are they all bin fucking laden? I'd rather pay for extra officers and overtime than have even 1 wrong address or wrongly identified or child instead of a dog get killed.

yes, i will accept a good bit of risk in exchange for limiting deaths against citizens caused directly by agents of the state.

hell, we can start with just working on them and getting actual reviews before issuing and actual accountability to them. then we can move on to eliminating them once officers get comfortable figuring out a different way for most of their shithead busts
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Youre using the same arguments antigunners use against the 2nd amendment. Sometimes theyre used badly! We have to ban them for the childrens!
 
Stuck said:
Youre using the same arguments antigunners use against the 2nd amendment. Sometimes theyre used badly! We have to ban them for the childrens!
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no, in fact, you said "no knock warrants are good....[to keep] stray rounds hitting innocent bystanders across the street"

It's amazing how backwards your notion is. In fact, the right to firearms is so important that it got named. You know another right that is so important that it got called out by name? Right FROM unlawful search! You know what that means? every single time that a no knock is served on the wrong address, it is a constitutional violation of fundamental human rights. Not even some 'all other rights etc. to the people yada' stuff.

"the children" i spoke of was directly related to a cop breaking in to a home, attempting to kill a dog (?!?) and killing a person (child) instead. Absurd, even more so when done on a no knock at the wrong house.

I will trade the false notion of officer safety for the very real notion of uninvolved citizen safety every day. It would be a pretty unique situation to come across somebody who flat out does not leave their home and the case cannot be made to arrest or question the people going in and supporting them.
 
Provience said:
no, in fact, you said "no knock warrants are good....[to keep] stray rounds hitting innocent bystanders across the street"

It's amazing how backwards your notion is. In fact, the right to firearms is so important that it got named. You know another right that is so important that it got called out by name? Right FROM unlawful search! You know what that means? every single time that a no knock is served on the wrong address, it is a constitutional violation of fundamental human rights. Not even some 'all other rights etc. to the people yada' stuff.

"the children" i spoke of was directly related to a cop breaking in to a home, attempting to kill a dog (?!?) and killing a person (child) instead. Absurd, even more so when done on a no knock at the wrong house.

I will trade the false notion of officer safety for the very real notion of uninvolved citizen safety every day. It would be a pretty unique situation to come across somebody who flat out does not leave their home and the case cannot be made to arrest or question the people going in and supporting them.
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Well you just went full ActionFab. Ive stated repeatedly that they need to be vetted more thoroughly to eliminate exactly that issue. So either youre stupid or just intentionally being obtuse. Either way Im not going to argue anymore. Take your libtard style victory lap for retarding the issue.
 
Stuck said:
Well you just went full ActionFab. Ive stated repeatedly that they need to be vetted more thoroughly to eliminate exactly that issue. So either youre stupid or just intentionally being obtuse. Either way Im not going to argue anymore. Take your libtard style victory lap for retarding the issue.
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I’m pretty sure that everyone reading this can see that you’re the one making circular, non-sensical arguments. You seem to not be able to picture a world where the cops are held to the same standards as us normies.
 
Action Fab said:
I'm curious. Am I the only one who doesn't ever call the police anymore? I just wants my right to solve issues with fists, back. Maybe I spend too much time around pack animals. But nature has a very good way for animals to determine their hierarchies. Most of the time, simple posturing is enough. Sometimes a knock-out/drag-out is needed. Usually peace is gained and the group is better for their pecking order.
Click to expand...

If you get handsy with me over anything, since I never do anything warranting physical violence, I'll either win the fight, or I'll come back later and run you over with my car and back up and run you over again. And barring being able to get you, I'll get someone close to you.

See how that works?

I'm not in your 'pack' motherfucker. I play by different rules, and so do other people. That's why we have laws and the police.

You live a very, very sheltered life if that's your philosophy.
 
evernoob said:
If you get handsy with me over anything, since I never do anything warranting physical violence, I'll either win the fight, or I'll come back later and run you over with my car and back up and run you over again. And barring being able to get you, I'll get someone close to you.

See how that works?

I'm not in your 'pack' motherfucker. I play by different rules, and so do other people. That's why we have laws and the police.

You live a very, very sheltered life if that's your philosophy.
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What would you do if someone called the cops on you? How would your reaction be any different?
 
evernoob said:
If you get handsy with me over anything, since I never do anything warranting physical violence, I'll either win the fight, or I'll come back later and run you over with my car and back up and run you over again. And barring being able to get you, I'll get someone close to you.

See how that works?

I'm not in your 'pack' motherfucker. I play by different rules, and so do other people. That's why we have laws and the police.

You live a very, very sheltered life if that's your philosophy.
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Why am I not suprised about any of this?....oh yeah, I remember.
 
Stuck said:
Well you just went full ActionFab. Ive stated repeatedly that they need to be vetted more thoroughly to eliminate exactly that issue. So either youre stupid or just intentionally being obtuse. Either way Im not going to argue anymore. Take your libtard style victory lap for retarding the issue.
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and that's fine, we agree on the meat that there is substantial room for improvement in the process.
 
M92PV4U said:
What would you do if someone called the cops on you? How would your reaction be any different?
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I don't do illegal things so that's not going to happen.

Boss said:
Why am I not suprised about any of this?....oh yeah, I remember.
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It's a shit-posting board, don't get bent out of shape.

I'm just calling the cops and contacting a Lawyer to ruin anyone's life. Hell I might not even use a Lawyer, I'm fully capable of filing motions. I don't have to win, I just have to keep hauling someone's ass down to the Courthouse until they decide not to show, now the cops are after them.

The point is, I have little to lose, and there are people out there with even less to lose than me. That's why you don't take the law into your own hands, you call the cops.

Anyone bragging that they want to get rid of the Law and take it into their own hands is an untested child. The end game on that is gangs peeling faces off while Funkytown plays in the background. No seriously, go look up the Funkytown video.
 
evernoob said:
I'm not in your 'pack' motherfucker. I play by different rules, and so do other people. That's why we have laws and the police.
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i've called the police and believe they have a role to play. hell, i pay for them, might as well use them. the majority of times that i've called the police it was related to car accidents, once there was a gal who wanted to just yell and harass us from the street, she wouldn't calm down until we were on the phone with the sheriff, once she knew they were on their way, she left. Never set foot on my property, never escalated from words to physical. i have no reason to escalate just because somebody was wrongfully disturbed. people that can't understand the difference between words and physical are a significant part of the problem even when dealing with police reform.
 
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