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Early Bronco Dilemma

Got the cylinders cleaned up and the engine, trans, tcase installed. Luckily the cylinders weren't bad at all. Just took some scotchbright pads and elbow grease.

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Exhaust is mocked up. Pretty sure it's not going to fit under the body. Gotta wait a few weeks to make sure and I'll cut it up and reposition.
Fuel lines are in and pressure tested. (don't try to reuse old lines, cracked and leaked immediately). Brake hardlines are in, just waiting on the flex.

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Still plugging away at the "before the body goes on" check list. Hardlines, vents, and most vacuum lines are in place.
My big concern lately is my extra long upper link. I am fully aware of the 70% rule of thumb and even the benefits of equal length upper and lowees. I did mine originally to minimize the angle on the drive shaft u joint. But after cutting and turning the axle pinion that is less of a concern.
The other advantage I had to the longer upper was it maintained caster within 1 degree through full travel. Not a huge deal for rock crawling but I figured for driving fast on the street or in the dirt maintaining predictable steering is pretty important.
Long story short, if I'm going to change it I need to in the next couple weeks before I get the body back. It would be a significant life event to try to cut the mount off and reattach after the body is on.

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Maquet24 said:
Still plugging away at the "before the body goes on" check list. Hardlines, vents, and most vacuum lines are in place.
My big concern lately is my extra long upper link. I am fully aware of the 70% rule of thumb and even the benefits of equal length upper and lowees. I did mine originally to minimize the angle on the drive shaft u joint. But after cutting and turning the axle pinion that is less of a concern.
The other advantage I had to the longer upper was it maintained caster within 1 degree through full travel. Not a huge deal for rock crawling but I figured for driving fast on the street or in the dirt maintaining predictable steering is pretty important.
Long story short, if I'm going to change it I need to in the next couple weeks before I get the body back. It would be a significant life event to try to cut the mount off and reattach after the body is on.
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If you haven't played with the latest version of the Link Calculator, I highly recommend you download it from the "Resources" tab at the top of the page. It has a lot of added functionality that I think you will find useful.

I am far from an expert, but the general rules for 3 Links I've been designing around are:
  • Shoot for 25% of tire diameter for vertical link separation at the axle, but consider ~8" an acceptable minimum.
  • Vertical link separation at the frame end should be 50% the separation at the axle end ±10%
  • None of the links should angle more than 8º from Horizontal at ride height, and the upper link should be horizontal or pointing slightly upwards at the axle end.
  • The Panhard bar should be as long and flat as possible at ride height, and your steering linkage should mirror it as closely as possible.
  • You want your front roll center height high enough in relation to your rear roll center height to give you a roll axis that is relatively flat or sloping slightly upwards towards the front.
  • The "Anti-roll" percentage (roll center height divided by sprung C.G. height) should be 80-100% for a dedicated crawler, 40-80% for general trail rigs, and <40% for a go-fast rig. A higher percentage will mean the suspension will naturally resist more body roll, but it will cause harshness at speed since the suspension will be "jacking" the body around.
As for the "70% rule" (I've usually heard 80%), I am not sure where that really comes from or what it supposedly accomplishes. As you already pointed out, the shorter upper causes much more dramatic pinion/caster angle changes throughout travel than you would see with a longer upper like you have. I think ideally from a suspension/steering geometry standpoint, you would want to keep caster fairly constant or perhaps increasing towards max droop to help with stability during landings after jumps. Obviously though, you have to keep in mind your driveshaft operating angle, especially during full droop, and you may want to design your suspension to lose some caster at full droop in order to prevent driveshaft bind (especially since you are running a low pinion front).


Your design looks pretty good to me, although it would be nice to see the numbers for the caster change for different upper link lengths you posted in your screen shot. Your link angles look good, you have a nice high anti-dive percentage, your panhard is pretty long and flat, and your roll center height seems reasonable. I think your lowers could stand to be a bit longer, but I wouldn't worry enough about it to change anything. Your C.G. height looks reasonable based on what I measured mine at. I do think 39" tires are a bit big for a 92" wheelbase, I would personally consider 97-98" the minimum for that size, but I know you also have a buggy, so maybe you aren't worried about maximum crawling performance.


EDIT: What is the name of the color you are painting the Bronco? It looks pretty close to the "turquoise" Bronco color I want to paint mine.
 
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Thanks Dave!

'84 Bronco II said:
Bro! That's exactly the info I needed. Super concise and a good wrap up of everything I've been reading.

You're spot on with the low pinion and why I went with the longer upper.

Lower links are a little shorter than the 4 x the shock travel length rule. That was intentional based off not only transfer case skid location but I also run super short links on my buggy and I really like it. So long as a short arm set up doesn't bind or restrict articulation I've found I'm much less likely to get hung up on the rocks on them.

I'd love to stretch the wheelbase but I didn't prior to paint and body. Honestly I really thought about stretching the frame like they did in the Skyjacker Half cab but ultimately chickened out. I've thought about going to a smaller tire, maybe 37. Truth is I don't need another 40" buggy I just need something that drives me around town and gets me through Moab relatively unscathed.

Color is light turquoise, however it wasn't a paint code match because my body shop couldn't find it so they matched as close as possible. Definitely my favorite EB color, helps that it was the original color I found on the bronco too.

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Maquet24 said:
Lizard skin is in! Should have the body back next week!
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why did you choose Lizard skin?

i have read trash talk about it a couple of times

I've had a multi colored uhh can't remember the name off hand.. but it was really strong until I ripped off about 1/3 of my body on rocks, one of many reasons it was totaled

EDIT!! I used to have half a dozen sponsors.. here is the one that sprayed my truck.. it was the third liner i tried, and it was much better and stronger.. I used to know about many types of liner.. Austin Bedliners and Coatings | Truck Bedliners | Texas Spray on Bedliners | Duraline, Bedrug | Infinity Conversions (icatx.com) they took like 500 dollars off the price and they had their logo and info on my tailgate.. i have video of it
 
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ArTi54N said:
why did you choose Lizard skin?

i have read trash talk about it a couple of times

I've had a multi colored uhh can't remember the name off hand.. but it was really strong until I ripped off about 1/3 of my body on rocks, one of many reasons it was totaled

EDIT!! I used to have half a dozen sponsors.. here is the one that sprayed my truck.. it was the third liner i tried, and it was much better and stronger.. I used to know about many types of liner.. Austin Bedliners and Coatings | Truck Bedliners | Texas Spray on Bedliners | Duraline, Bedrug | Infinity Conversions (icatx.com) they took like 500 dollars off the price and they had their logo and info on my tailgate.. i have video of it
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Honestly I went with lizard skin because I've seen Ian Johnson do it a few times. From the little I researched on it it seemed pretty good and durable. I guess time will tell now....
 
Well... I flexed it out and I'm keeping the crazy long upper three link. May regret it later, or..... You'll all be thanking me for my thoughtful insight to a non mathematic approach to link geometry.
Mounted the seats to the cage with tabs. It was 2" too high so I wasted two hours and cut them off. No pictures for that.
I did build an engine cage to connect the shock hoops so that's something.

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Got the body and tailgate back from paint. Really happy with the quality from Crawford's Custom Collisions out of Ellicott, CO.
Immediately dropped it off for Rhino Lining.

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Paint came out nice! Did you go with a single stage, or is there clear on top of it?
 
'84 Bronco II said:
Paint came out nice! Did you go with a single stage, or is there clear on top of it?
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You know I honestly don't know. I assumed it had clear, I think we talked about that a few months ago when he was getting started. He does still want to go back and buff it once it's put together, that's a clear coat thing right?
 
Maquet24 said:
You know I honestly don't know. I assumed it had clear, I think we talked about that a few months ago when he was getting started. He does still want to go back and buff it once it's put together, that's a clear coat thing right?
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I know next to nothing about paint :laughing: I am just trying to get a handle on what to do for my build since I want something that looks good in pictures and decent from ~5' away, but still cheap since it is going to get beat up. Single stage is usually cheaper, and the added benefit for desert dwellers is that you don't have to worry about clear coat burning off. It usually looks much less glossy though than a clear coat paint job.
 
Body is back from Rhino Lining. Can't believe how well it covered up mine and the previously done crappy welds!
I was going to do carpet inside but I'm pretty sure that's not happening now. The bed is damn near perfect, never expected it to look this good.

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That Rhino looks great. I had some fenders done with Rhino. Later I did some panels with rustolium bed liner. It looked just as good and a lot less money. Maybe it won't hold up like the Rhino, though.
 
WaterH said:
That Rhino looks great. I had some fenders done with Rhino. Later I did some panels with rustolium bed liner. It looked just as good and a lot less money. Maybe it won't hold up like the Rhino, though.
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So... About that rhino liner....

Going to call them tomorrow and see how we get it fixed. Looks like it's localized to the floor pans.

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I did make some progress with about 5 of my ffriends help. Only took two test fits and a little exhaust massaging on the driver's side.

Buddy showed me a technique of tack welding something solid on either side of where you want to flatten and then hammer away. Worked great, turned out really uniformed.

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Maquet24 said:
So... About that rhino liner....

Going to call them tomorrow and see how we get it fixed. Looks like it's localized to the floor pans.
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Wow, that sucks. I'm going to check the fenders I had done. How long did it take to do that? They going to do something for you?
 
WaterH said:
Wow, that sucks. I'm going to check the fenders I had done. How long did it take to do that? They going to do something for you?
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It happened within a week. They said when it's moisture it usually happens quick. Body had been in the garage the last week and the day I installed it on the frame it was warm and out in the sun. I think the heat is what caused the moisture to do its thing and bubble up the lining.
They are going to fix it. Plan is to grind and blend I guess. Sucks because I had to pull it back off the frame and I'll have to take it down there. Luckily it's localized to the floor pans.
I've heard line X heats up the body prior to application to avoid this. Maybe next time I'll pay the extra $.....
 
Maquet24 said:
It happened within a week. They said when it's moisture it usually happens quick. Body had been in the garage the last week and the day I installed it on the frame it was warm and out in the sun. I think the heat is what caused the moisture to do its thing and bubble up the lining.
They are going to fix it. Plan is to grind and blend I guess. Sucks because I had to pull it back off the frame and I'll have to take it down there. Luckily it's localized to the floor pans.
I've heard line X heats up the body prior to application to avoid this. Maybe next time I'll pay the extra $.....
Click to expand...

Sounds logical. I'm not sure if I had the Rhino or lineX, now that you mention it. I didn't see any oven in their shop. It was expensive. Now I have to take back what I said about rustolium bedliner. I just did my bed. It looks great on small sections, but if you do something large, you can't avoid streaks.
 
After digging into the rhino liner issue I actually think it was an issue with the primer not adhering to the multiple layers of bed liner and paint. Rhino Linings of Colorado Springs has done a great job of stripping the liner off and taking it all the way down to bare metal. Just glad it's getting fixed right.

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Trying to stay busy with whatever I can while I wait to get the body back. Built an anti flail for the rear driveshaft, finished the exhaust with a turn and tips, got the radiator hoses and AC condenser mounted, and cleaned and painted the pedal assemblies and air boxes.

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