Dreadlocks

[Provience]

i'm not sure why this popped in to my head, but it's late and i'm bored

https://www.cnn.com/2016/03/31/living/white-dreadlocks-cultural-appropriation-feat/index.html

2016 article from CNN "dear white people with dreadlocks"

She remembers seeing white people with dreadlocks in the same Berkeley, California, salon she used to visit for regular maintenance.

"For me what it means to lock one's hair really felt like going back to the natural progression of what my hair was like on its own," she said. "To see other people take extra steps to push their hair in that direction is an interesting thing to look at as a different sort of metaphor as opposed to this is what your hair would do naturally."

first off, this is hilarious to say "OMG, white people go to my salon to get their dreads serviced? That's where i go to get mine serviced. why are they putting in the effort? i'm just putting in the effort" but i digress, because that isn't wholly the point.

"If you're going to take on something that does have sacred and historic significance and an unequal history of power dynamics it's important to honor that history," she said. "Be an ally by knowing your stuff and being respectful and acknowledging where it comes from."

the above is this gal talking about the cultural appropriation aspect. i.e. if you are white and rock dreads, just don't say it is a white thing and say it is a black thing.


huh, really? a black thing?

http://ragingrootsstudio.com/the-history-of-dreadlocks/

Regardless of their origin, dreadlocks have been worn by nearly every culture at some point in time or another. Roman accounts stated that the Celts wore their hair ‘like snakes’. The Germanic tribes and Vikings were also known to wear their hair in dreadlocks. Dreadlocks have been worn by the monks of the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church, the Nazarites of Judiasm, Qalandri’s Sufi’s, the Sadhu’s of Hinduism, and the Dervishes of Islam, and many more!

article about the history of dreads. first "documented" dreads come from India and Shiva. Next documented references? Celts, europeans, mediterranians, jews, egyptians.

egyptians are black, right? uh, well....no they are Mediterranean.


well, that article must just be whitewashed eurocentric racism. 'cuz the place is from CT.

alright, here is a "black history of hair website"

https://www.refinery29.com/en-us/2015/04/86174/history-of-dreadlocks#slide-1

and they say essentially the same thing, but also highlight how in America in the 1970's and 80's that bob marley and whoopi goldberg made the style famous for black people in american pop culture.

welp, there ya go. cultural appropriation gone awry. So no, rocking dread or twisted or loc'd hair is not a black thing and certainly not a black exclusive thing.

I'd go even further and say that a shaved head is a more common traditional african hairstyle for men and women, with very short hair a close second. seriously, go check out photo's of any african tribal anything ever. old national geographics and such. why? well, there are lots of bugs and hair is a mess to keep clean and healthy. long hair and especially long tight curly hair is high maintenance.

 

[Provience]

many years ago i was working with a gal who had her hair in loc's, they short and many variety. turns out it was a wig, and this was when i learned that wigs are so common with black women that she was as surprised that i didn't know that as i was that it wasn't her hair i asked her about it and she said it was "traditional" and i honestly laughed. apparently that was the wrong thing to do i don't mean to be an ass, it just happens.

so here i am, years later and i finally got around to looking into it. turns out, that isn't the case and apparently, historically speaking, people with straight or wavy (gentle curls) hair are more likely to have a history of 'natural' locs than people with tight curls (or combs)

 

[det107]

Bo Derek did it in the film, 10.... Lotsa cornfed chicks following the fad when I was in H.S....

 

[Provience]

https://www.ebony.com/style/history-dreadlocks/

ebony is always a great resource on what counts as raciss or appropriation or appropriately woke 🤣

On Sept. 15 (2016), the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled it’s nondiscriminatory to ban locs in the workplace. That same day, Marc Jacobs was accused of cultural appropriation when his mostly white models walked the runway wearing pastel-colored locs during New York Fashion Week. The message was clear: Dreadlocks are not welcome unless the person wearing them is white.

but it's so natural and just what my hair does!

On average, the locking process takes three to six months with comb twisting. After about two years, locs become “mature.” This term is used to describe the hair when it’s completely locked with a rope-like appearance

ah, now we have some quality dates to assign our historical terms

Created by Dr. JoAnne Cornwell in 1993, sisterlocks resemble micro braids and are typically worn by women. Brotherlocks, on the other hand, are slightly thicker than sisterlocks and usually seen on men.

you do you, hairdo

“Locs can be braided, twisted, curled, pinned up into rolls and buns, cut and colored,” says Simone Hylton, a Florida-based loctician and owner of Natural Trendsetters Salon. The only thing you can’t do? Comb ‘em except during the removal process.

“The number of styling options for locs is only limited by the person wearing them,” Faulk adds.

 

[ExWrench]

Bo Derek . . . in the film, 10....

 

[Pukemaggots]

They are know as knots for a reason.

 

[Provience]

Bo Derek did it in the film, 10.... Lotsa cornfed chicks following the fad when I was in H.S....

can't say i ever say or heard of the movie, but a quick google search and i recognize some of the photos

https://www.thecut.com/2015/07/bo-derek-doesnt-want-to-talk-about-cornrows.html

2015 article, apparently in 2016 is when people "knew" it came from india/europe either earlier or at least as early as anywhere else in the world

When Kylie Jenner’s cornrows inspired this week’s conversation about cultural appropriation, several people invoked the name Bo Derek — the original white woman in cornrows — as reference, or maybe justification.

When asked about the hairdo’s origins (in the same People piece a black woman named Ann Collins gets credit as 10’s official braider), Derek responded that she “knew where it came from, but that had nothing to do with doing it.”

Her final comment: “No, seriously, of all the important racial and cultural issues we have right now, people are going to focus on a hairstyle? No, no. I’ll save my efforts toward important racial and cultural issues.”

knew where it came from? where is that Bo? is it Africa? or the Celts?

 

[Provience]

They are know as knots for a reason.

20th century sheer ignorance, apparently.


edit: coupled with revisioned history

 

[XtremeJ]

Bo Derek did it in the film, 10.... Lotsa cornfed chicks following the fad when I was in H.S....

um not dreads, those were cornrows

having been born and raised in the black factory, Africa, braids and corn rows are definitely a part of the culture of many african tribes.

dreads - hardly at all, and even then more likely be to worn by a rasta, or a trustafarian. Dreads are definitely not part of any African tribe culture south of the sahara. I call BS.

I can see the confusion though, tribes like the Himba, one of the most primitive peoples in the world, have hair that looks like dreads, kinda. But again it is a braided hairstyle, not at all like a dreadlock.

 

[Aisin]

Bo Derek did it in the film, 10.... Lotsa cornfed chicks following the fad when I was in H.S....

Those were braids. Completely different from dreads.

 

[Filthy McChevy]

My sister went to Jamaica for her Honeymoon in Jamaica in the early 90s. She had her hair tied in Cornrows with beads while there, it was a thing in Jamaica then to do it. It did not last long for my sister, just a different thing to try I guess. I think dreads are stupid and kind of gross and always want to ask people with them "Do you ever wish you could run a comb through your hair?" just to mess with them.

 

[Provience]

https://www.essence.com/hair/kim-kardashian-bo-derek-fulani-braid-problematic/

essense will set us all straight

Braids have long been the de facto hairstyle of the African diaspora. Originally a tribal signifier amongst African tribes, the technique was brought across the Atlantic during slavery and is now a go-to protective style for Black women.

ah, that's it. long been "de facto" in africa. surely that's the case

Named after the Fula people, the largest ethnic group across West Africa and Sahel, Fulani braids are characterized by forward-facing plaits with one or two large braids going back down the center. Often adorned with some type of gem, bead, or metal the braiding technique and style became widely known for its intricacy and stark difference from cornrows.

huh, that doesn't at all sound like what bo derek had in the movie 10 than Kim K did later on

Considering the rich and extensive history of the hairstyle (that you can easily Google) it should come as no surprise that Black women are both confused and enraged at the fact that Kardashian recently posted a series of selfies to Instagram and credited Bo Derek for the look.

yeah, wouldn't want people using google to learn some history

t’s important to remember that it was only last year that Army Regulation 670-1 was repealed. This regulation described natural hair as matted and unkempt and restricted black women from natural hairstyles including twists, dreadlocks, Afros and braids while deployed. Black women have always been criticized when culturally expressing themselves. This is particularly true when that expression is manifested through their hairstyles.

ya know what's crazy? everybody had those same restrictions. it wasn't just black women that couldn't have twists or dreads or afro's and braids. or otherwise unkempt hair. Can i get dreads to loc if they are only 3" long

The styles they rock are not only cute, but they also bear historical significance and cultural ties. And until white women stop stealing our hairstyles and crediting other white women as the originator of said style, Black women will continue to call them out, and drag them on social media.

and this is why this thread exists today, so that we can drag out people on social media for claiming some strange right to a hair style and accusing people of "stealing" any damned thing

 

[XtremeJ]

I spent 5 years in the Caribbean, and nothing funnier, than pasty white overweight American women deciding to go with corn rows on their vacation. Plenty of locals happy to oblige, pay the $100 up front, sit on a chair on the beach, and let the process begin. Most tourists abandoned the process after the first row as it is an incredibly painful experience to have done properly, involving pulling your hair tight enough to make you wince in pain and bring tears to your eyes.

Besides white women look ridiculous with cornrows - Bo Derek being an exception. Even corn rows take a lot of maintenance, and have to be redone monthly to stop them looking ratty, and redoing them is even more painful as they have to be combed out and redone. The Rasta's I knew that had the long thin dreads were also constantly maintaining them, you let them go too long and they also look like a mess.

Regardless fuck this PC cultural appropriation bullshit. I should write to the Simpsons to complain about making fun of my Scottish heritage with a character like Groundskeeper Willie, but being white he is fair game. Some curry mechanic complains, and suddenly no Apoo. BS.

 

[det107]

Okay.... Cornrows it is

 

[Sandy Johnson]

I have known lots of hippies with dreadlocks - white and black. Most of them got them because they let their hair grow long and didn't bother to wash or comb it. Sounds like that lady was all about gatekeeping a hairstyle to me.

 

[Provience]

um not dreads, those were cornrows

having been born and raised in the black factory, Africa, braids and corn rows are definitely a part of the culture of many african tribes.

dreads - hardly at all, and even then more likely be to worn by a rasta, or a trustafarian. Dreads are definitely not part of any African tribe culture south of the sahara. I call BS.

I can see the confusion though, tribes like the Himba, one of the most primitive peoples in the world, have hair that looks like dreads, kinda. But again it is a braided hairstyle, not at all like a dreadlock.

which is what is so comical about dreadlocks being cultural appropriation against africans or black americans.

i don't disagree about braids existing in africa, but they were also in other places and short/no hair is also very common.


question for you, how often have/did you ever see large (~6+ inches deep) afro's ? that's a pretty uniquely american thing as far as i can tell from here.

 

[Provience]

I have known lots of hippies with dreadlocks - white and black. Most of them got them because they let their hair grow long and didn't bother to wash or comb it. Sounds like that lady was all about gatekeeping a hairstyle to me.

and it is only going to get worse.


something that popped into my head a few weeks ago is that we as a society TODAY are actively creating significantly MORE taboo's when we used to be a society that proudly removed taboos so we get shit like "white people wearing dreads is cultural appropriation, unless they explicitly pay homage to the black people who give them that hairstyle" which is, turns out, a complete and utter false notion. kind of like everything in the 1619 project...which was literally going to be mandatory in CA public schools.

 

[det107]

...question for you, how often have/did you ever see large (~6+ inches deep) afro's ? that's a pretty uniquely american thing as far as i can tell from here.

Edit: ooh!! ooh, I know!!!

​​​​​​wooly bear hair has been around since I was a kid. Foot deep Afros was common as they didn't want to go the way of whitey & conk the kinks. :raisesfist:

 

[Sandy Johnson]

and it is only going to get worse.


something that popped into my head a few weeks ago is that we as a society TODAY are actively creating significantly MORE taboo's when we used to be a society that proudly removed taboos so we get shit like "white people wearing dreads is cultural appropriation, unless they explicitly pay homage to the black people who give them that hairstyle" which is, turns out, a complete and utter false notion. kind of like everything in the 1619 project...which was literally going to be mandatory in CA public schools.

I agree with you, except for one point: I don't care if we teach the 1619 project in schools. It's important to know our history. ALL of our history, even the shitty stuff so we don't do it again. There's also a difference between knowing it, knowing we don't want to repeat it vs feeling like we have to atone or have guilt for what happened.

 

[Provience]

Edit: ooh!! ooh, I know!!!

​​​​​​wooly bear hair has been around since I was a kid. Foot deep Afros was common as they didn't want to go the way of whitey & conk the kinks. :raisesfist:

in africa? I'm trying to think of anti-colonialism post WWII images and such and just can't see any large afros.

 

[Provience]

I agree with you, except for one point: I don't care if we teach the 1619 project in schools. It's important to know our history. ALL of our history, even the shitty stuff so we don't do it again. There's also a difference between knowing it, knowing we don't want to repeat it vs feeling like we have to atone or have guilt for what happened.

the problem with the 1619 project, is that it is based on fiction. it isn't ALL our history and even the shitty stuff.

i'm 100% serious. 1619 is literally damaging to all people today based on how badly it misrepresents history.

edit: i have absolutely no problem with teaching the reality of slavery, the history of it, the horrors of it, all that jazz. i think it is important. 1619 does not do that in any way.

 

[Sandy Johnson]

the problem with the 1619 project, is that it is based on fiction. it isn't ALL our history and even the shitty stuff.

i'm 100% serious. 1619 is literally damaging to all people today based on how badly it misrepresents history.

edit: i have absolutely no problem with teaching the reality of slavery, the history of it, the horrors of it, all that jazz. i think it is important. 1619 does not do that in any way.

I haven't seen a lot on it, but the stuff I have seen for the project doesn't look that terrible to me.

 

[det107]

in africa? I'm trying to think of anti-colonialism post WWII images and such and just can't see any large afros.

LoL
Any minority/darker brother neighborhoods when they went from being called Negroes and wanting to be called Black. I grew up at that era. Hollywood blacks cinema too.

We called them coloreds in metro area but only when I moved upstate, got corrected on the letter r since it was omitted-

 

[det107]

I saw a pix of Frederick Douglass & he was sporting long wavy upswept hair, if that counts?

 

[XtremeJ]

which is what is so comical about dreadlocks being cultural appropriation against africans or black americans.

question for you, how often have/did you ever see large (~6+ inches deep) afro's ? that's a pretty uniquely american thing as far as i can tell from h buy ere.

Exactly

Afros- never on black men. Rarely on black women. Certainly was not a traditional hairstyle. Really only came in fashion in the late 70’s after the Shaft blacksploitation movies became popular in parts of Africa.

 

[ConwayMuddy]

How bout black people stop appropriately white culture. Go back to living in mud huts and eating dirt in Africa.

only white people I've known with dreads were stinky hippies and train hopping crust punks. The hippies smell worse.

 

[Pat McRotch]

I had dreds in HS.. 97-99ish
thanks Korn.

 

[No way]

Answer me this:
Why is "cultural appropriation" a bad thing and why is it only bad when whitey is doing it?

What qualifies?
Can I eat watermelon?
Can I pick cotton?
Can a non-white person were a wooly hat in the winter? Knitted mittens? Long johns?
Can non-whites living in my traditionally snow white country be accused of cultural appropriation just for being here?



Just.Stop.Being.Offended.By.Everyfuckingthing on behalf of everyfuckingone and the world will instantly become a better place.

 

[Provience]

I haven't seen a lot on it, but the stuff I have seen for the project doesn't look that terrible to me.

well, keep reading. as well as also bouncing it off other history sources.

 

[Provience]

I saw a pix of Frederick Douglass & he was sporting long wavy upswept hair, if that counts?

douglas was an american, and didn't have a full afro, but did have the long "natural" hair style that is still common, if not a minority hairstyle. kind of like einstein hair being "natural"

sure, both of those people could have their hair referred to as "unkempt" because it is, but apparently that is just racist to say