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Double Carden driveshaft fuckery

Johnny Longrifle

Johnny Longrifle

Slow learner
Joined
May 19, 2020
Member Number
147
Messages
432
Loc
Not where I want to be
I'm working on my 96 F350 Fummins project. I've never been happy with the drive line angles since day one. I finally got the rear shaft inline and angles close enough that it doesn't vibrate. That involved moving the trans crossmember around, and getting the engine/trans angle where it needed to be, which completely fucked the angle of the front shaft.

The u joint at the front pinion is pretty much zero. At the Tcase, it's got alot. I didn't measure the angle, but it's bad. Shakes like a dog shittin a peach seed.

Clocking the Tcase is not really an option without also changing pinion angle and caster. So, a Double Carden driveshaft seems like a possible solution.

Anyway, I have a couple late model Ford 1350 CV shafts laying around. The correct flange yoke doesn't exist to adapt between my BW4407 Tcase and the super duty 1350 flange, because the spline count, profile, and seal diameter is goofy. Thanks BW. The splines measure 1.375 major, but they are flat and don't come to a point like normal people splines. Who knows why they did that.

IMG_20240204_164939617.jpg



The u joint size of that yoke is also goofy. It's a Ford 1330, meaning it uses 3.625 outside lockup with 1.125 cap diameter. Thanks FoMoCo

Now, a conversion U joint does exist to fit my transfer case yoke, and the Super Duty 1350. But, a matching centering yoke does not.

What I'm thinking is use the Super Duty centering yoke,
IMG_20240204_164843063.jpg


with the conversion joint and my Tcase yoke to get everything together. That will involve cutting the flange off of the Super Duty yoke.

My question is: is removing the flat flange of the yoke (roughly where the sharpie marks are)

IMG_20240204_165144648.jpg
going to eliminate all strength? Skeptical me doesn't think there is any meat left after I take the flange off.


Use your imagination, but the finished product would be something like this.

IMG_20240204_165215973.jpg



Dumb idea? Yes it will be fine? Anyone done this before and found parts that work that I haven't? I even went back to the place we shall not name in sirch :frown:



Anyone know a machine shop willing to cut out a one off flange yoke for me?
 
So its got the fucked up splines like some of the 1356's had?

IIRC Powertain used to make a flange to replace that yoke.
 
Johnny Longrifle said:
Anyone know a machine shop willing to cut out a one off flange yoke for me?
Click to expand...

I know Jesse at High Angle Driveline was doing all kinds of weird 1350 flange yokes for a while, might be worth a call.

As a last resort, I'd be tempted to cut up the BW yoke, turn the last half inch or so of the OD into a nice pilot, and machine/weld the 1350 CV flange onto it.
 
Steve300xcw said:
So its got the fucked up splines like some of the 1356's had?

IIRC Powertain used to make a flange to replace that yoke.
Click to expand...
What I'm leaning is the 1356 had 31 spline outputs. Mine is 32.
vetteboy79 said:
I know Jesse at High Angle Driveline was doing all kinds of weird 1350 flange yokes for a while, might be worth a call.

As a last resort, I'd be tempted to cut up the BW yoke, turn the last half inch or so of the OD into a nice pilot, and machine/weld the 1350 CV flange onto it.
Click to expand...
Hadn't thought of him, and he didn't come up in sirch either . Is he still running his shop?

I also thought about the cut and weld route, but I am putting some abuse towards this, and dissimilar material will make for disaster.
 
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1.125 caps on the Tcase though? Wtf is that?:laughing:

I'll measure a few things tomorrow. Might be able to come up with at least a bad idea for ya
 
I knew they did it on the diffs. Just hadnt ran into it on the Tcase before...outside of chevy stuff
 
A junkyard NVG271 that Superduty shafts bolt onto with no fucking around is going to be cheaper than whatever abortion of a solution you come up with.
 
Johnny Longrifle said:
What I'm leaning is the 1356 had 31 spline outputs. Mine is 32.

Hadn't thought of him, and he didn't come up in sirch either . Is he still running his shop?

I also thought about the cut and weld route, but I am putting some abuse towards this, and dissimilar material will make for disaster.
Click to expand...
I talked to Jesse a while back and he was still running the shop. Need to talk to him again about doing some custom Ford 9" pinion flanges.....
 
arse_sidewards said:
A junkyard NVG271 that Superduty shafts bolt onto with no fucking around is going to be cheaper than whatever abortion of a solution you come up with.
Click to expand...
Unless he needs a speedo output at the tcase.



Im glad jess had it coveredn i assumed he was the best option.


Fwiw, gm guys have taken to the sd drivelines aswell and they have 2 issues with them. Iirc #1 is a minor pilot difference that is quickly handled. # is the gm yokes and sd cv are both threaded, drill one side out and use the bolts that match the other.
 
total newb said:
Unless he needs a speedo output at the tcase.
Click to expand...
9th gen F-series uses VSS on the axle.
total newb said:
Fwiw, gm guys have taken to the sd drivelines aswell and they have 2 issues with them.
Click to expand...
Oh great, now I have to compete with those hordes of mullet wearing fucktards for parts. :shaking:
total newb said:
Iirc #1 is a minor pilot difference that is quickly handled. # is the gm yokes and sd cv are both threaded, drill one side out and use the bolts that match the other.
Click to expand...
The fact that those are "issues" is why I call them mullet wearing fuckards. :laughing:
 
It's mounted up and I have sharpie lines on it where it needs clearance adjustments.

Progress is progress.:flipoff2:

I've actually got a fairly good update to that thread in the works
 
arse_sidewards said:
A junkyard NVG271 that Superduty shafts bolt onto with no fucking around is going to be cheaper than whatever abortion of a solution you come up with.
Click to expand...

This or a BW 1356 or BW1345. The BW4407 is a bastard child that only had a couple of year run. Also, the Ford Big cap joints only have a thicker cap on half of the cross. The trunion size is the same, so you should be able to swap a 1.0625" cap on one.
 
'84 Bronco II said:
This or a BW 1356 or BW1345. The BW4407 is a bastard child that only had a couple of year run. Also, the Ford Big cap joints only have a thicker cap on half of the cross. The trunion size is the same, so you should be able to swap a 1.0625" cap on one.
Click to expand...
I like the 1345's pump. Bolts on, can't spin.

No options for CV flanges on that case IIRC

IDK how it stacks up in terms of strength but it seems comparable to the 1356.
 
arse_sidewards said:
I like the 1345's pump. Bolts on, can't spin.

No options for CV flanges on that case IIRC

IDK how it stacks up in terms of strength but it seems comparable to the 1356.
Click to expand...

From what I can tell after some quick research, it looks like the rear yoke is a 31 spline and interchanges with a BW1356 and the front yoke is 32 spline and interchanges with an NP205. Ironically you replied to this thread I found with the information :laughing: : BW1345
 
TrailTamer said:
pics?

seriously
Click to expand...
Next time I have it at the shop and on a lift, I will get you pics. I'm too fawking old to be crawling around on the floor of my piss poor "shop" at home.

Bringing this thread back up. I finally got the yoke I needed from Jess at High Angle Driveline. It's a quality piece.

IMG_20240224_132330109.jpg


IMG_20240224_132320278.jpg



IMG_20240224_132432437.jpg



As you can see in the last pic, this BW4407 uses a 32spl flattened bastard that is unique to this particular case. I've owned this truck since 1999ish and the whole time I thought it was a 1356:laughing:

Anyway, I test fit the yoke against a new Spicer centering yoke and found that the two were off by .017

There wasn't enough meat in the register of the flange yoke that I felt comfortable turning down, so I opted to bore the receiver of the centering yoke to match.

IMG_20240224_133256780.jpg



IMG_20240224_133230970.jpg

The Spicer centering yoke was dead nuts at 2.00". Jess flange was 2.017". So chuck it up in my antique conehead lathe and bore it to fit seemed like the best option.
 
It was a real bastard setting this flange in the lathe for a few thou, but this was the right way to do it.





It took some doing and it not dead nuts on, but you have to realize that I am working with a Monarch conehead lathe from 19..teens. 3 thou is amazing for what equipment I have.
 
Jess' flange bolted right to my Tcase without issue.

The next step was replacing u joints and the centering yoke on my donor driveshaft. Didn't take pics of that, it's just standard practice stuff.

This particular driveshaft came from a 2015 F350 with a 6.7. I replaced it at work because it was squeeking, but had no play. At that time parts were unavailable to repair the double Carden, so you just replaced the whole thing. However I couldn't bring myself to throw a double carden 1350 shaft in the scrap pile.

Now here is where it really gets good. I eyeballed my old driveshaft and the new one in the bench one day and realized that they might be close. After I got everything married up today, it could not have turned out any better. The factory Super Dooty shaft is a perfect fit into my Fummins without any modifications! I was hoping to use my old lathe to build another driveshaft, but this time I won't need to.
IMG_20240224_160913550.jpg


IMG_20240224_160901691.jpg


IMG_20240224_160844797.jpg



Last pic is at running length. You can just see the splines poking out of the tube. There is still 5"of splined shaft inside the tube. The sharpie mark is bottom. I'm clean in both directions!

I left the boot off to verify fitment. I'm gonna pick up some CV boot clamps on Monday, and get the boot back on, then hopefully roll down the highway with a bunch less vibrations.
 
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