Diesel half ton

[YotaAtieToo]

I saw a diesel titan recently and thought "oh ya, I forgot about those"

Made me think, there are actually quite a few half ton diesels available (except the Nissan just discontinued the diesel for the titan) but you never really see them. So many times I've heard "if xxx made a half ton diesel, I'd buy one" well? Did you?

Eco diesel: Probably the most common, it's been out for a while. I've heard mixed things on reliability. They hit the mpg mark well, but the towing and payload suck, less than the hemi version.

Nissan: I'm not sure wtf they were thinking. They some how made an even uglier truck than some of the others, made it pretty capable, 13k towing capacity actually. But not that great of mpg, and more expensive than a ram Cummins no wonder they only lasted a few years.

Colorado: aka "baby max" :rolleyes: I know these aren't technically a half ton, but they at like 7/8s of a full size. I haven't really heard anything much about them either.

F-150: I'd bet most people don't even know that's an option, Ford hasn't pushed it at all, and I kinda forgot about it for a while. I looked it up and, like Nissan, they missed the mark. It's only available in lariat or higher packages, it's less hp than the than any of the ecoboost or V8 options, and only slightly more tq than the 2.7 and 5.0, but no where near the 3.5, yet it's by far the most expensive and only gets a few mpg better. Can't see these taking off really.

They only one missing the party is toyota, maybe they will nail it? I doubt it.

Personally, I'd think a diesel 35+ mpg compact truck would be a seller. As it is, there is no reason to buy a small truck, they all get the same or worse fuel economy and are close in price.

Just curious if anyone out there has any experience with any of these. I don't even know anyone with any of them.

 

[Aggie06]

You’re forgetting the Chevy 1500 with the 3.0 duramax.

I don’t know anyone that has a 1/2 ton diesel. I’m not sure they’re worth the added cost vs. a gas 1/2 ton.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

You’re forgetting the Chevy 1500 with the 3.0 duramax.

I don’t know anyone that has a 1/2 ton diesel. I’m not sure they’re worth the added cost vs. a gas 1/2 ton.

See, I didn't even know that existed. Like Ford, they do a horrible job of advertising it.

I think if they could make a 3/4 ton diesel with say 300 hp and ~600 ft lbs for less than the big swinging dick diesels that would be the seller. Gas n/a sucks in the mountains, but you don't need 475/1000 to tow 10k lbs.

I'm still curious about the 7.3, but I'm not expecting it to be a replacement for a 300 hp diesel.

 

[Lowrollin70gmc]

I’ve had friends with early Dodge EcoDiesels and their engine issues. The lowered payload definitely sucks. I briefly contemplated the 3.0 Powerstroke but it’s not available in a regular cab short bed, so I ordered a 5.0 in my F150. The maintenance and parts cost on a modern diesel seems to remove any fuel mileage gains along with emissions crap, even the fleet of 3/4 tons I maintain are all gas engines now so I probably wouldn’t have optioned the diesel anyways.

I do have a stick shift diesel 1/2 ton. Well, it’s a 1984 C1500 6.2/NV4500 short bed. Good fuel mileage highway runner, no stump puller but stupid simple.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

I’ve had friends with early Dodge EcoDiesels and their engine issues. The lowered payload definitely sucks. I briefly contemplated the 3.0 Powerstroke but it’s not available in a regular cab short bed, so I ordered a 5.0 in my F150. The maintenance and parts cost on a modern diesel seems to remove any fuel mileage gains along with emissions crap, even the fleet of 3/4 tons I maintain are all gas engines now so I probably wouldn’t have optioned the diesel anyways.

I do have a stick shift diesel 1/2 ton. Well, it’s a 1984 C1500 6.2/NV4500 short bed. Good fuel mileage highway runner, no stump puller but stupid simple.

It's also not available in an XL or XLT, only gets like 2-3 mpg better than the ecoboost, plus more expensive fuel and Def costs. Then they want ~$5k more for it? Wtf

I just got my first 6.2 (cucv) I haven't driven it much, but I've always heard they did well on fuel. A 1/2 ton 2wd should do pretty well, even with barn aerodynamics

 

[Gravy]

In the salt states your frame will be rusted in half before you get any mileage on a diesel. I would rather they figure out how to keep there vehicle's from dissolving.

 

[landen300]

I think if they could make a 3/4 ton diesel with say 300 hp and ~600 ft lbs for less than the big swinging dick diesels that would be the seller.

Man, I'm with you on that one.
Most people don't need the diesel power to pull 24k or whatever the ratings are now.
If a guy could get a new diesel F-250 that made the same power as my 7.3PSD but was smaller and quieter, I'd love that. (6.7 with 2 cylinders hacked off?)
The new 7.3 gas motor is probably going to fill that power segment, is simpler and cheaper, but probably will get a few MPG's less is all.

I think one problem with the half ton diesels is that the half ton prices are already really close to 3/4+ prices.
In the case of Ford which I'm most familiar with, you get a lot more truck for the money in the Super Duty.
Once you add the price premium of the diesel on the half ton, you'd be silly not to get a Duty.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Man, I'm with you on that one.
Most people don't need the diesel power to pull 24k or whatever the ratings are now.
If a guy could get a new diesel F-250 that made the same power as my 7.3PSD but was smaller and quieter, I'd love that. (6.7 with 2 cylinders hacked off?)
The new 7.3 gas motor is probably going to fill that power segment, is simpler and cheaper, but probably will get a few MPG's less is all.

I think one problem with the half ton diesels is that the half ton prices are already really close to 3/4+ prices.
In the case of Ford which I'm most familiar with, you get a lot more truck for the money in the Super Duty.
Once you add the price premium of the diesel on the half ton, you'd be silly not to get a Duty.

I think they're up to like 36k with the HD duallys.

I'd think the same engine, just simplified and detuned. Not sure how they would make it considerably cheaper. But with less power, they could make everything else much smaller (trans, rear end, cooling, ect)

7.3 psd hp? I said 300hp not 200hp

I've heard a basic gas F250 can be had for less than a basic F150. When you factor in the 3.0 psd only coming on lariat or higher, you could easily get a super duty diesel for less.

 

[TRINDU]

I really liked the 5.0 cummins by design. Nissan just had a terrible truck. Wouldve been a hit in a Tundra, or a Ram instead of that VM motori junk.

 

[87manche]

I think they're up to like 36k with the HD duallys.

I'd think the same engine, just simplified and detuned. Not sure how they would make it considerably cheaper. But with less power, they could make everything else much smaller (trans, rear end, cooling, ect)

7.3 psd hp? I said 300hp not 200hp

I've heard a basic gas F250 can be had for less than a basic F150. When you factor in the 3.0 psd only coming on lariat or higher, you could easily get a super duty diesel for less.

but I don't think all of that shit on a modern diesel is what makes it cost a shit ton.

it's all the HPFP and injection things, and the emissions things and the engine management.
All of which you'll still have on a lower powered variant.

So even if you lop two cylinders off, you're still going to retain most of the costly bits.

and then you have the economies of scale. Does it cost more to make 5 million HD transmissions, or to make 2.5 million HD transmissions and 2.5 million light duty variants?


plus, america just doesn't like diesel.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

I really liked the 5.0 cummins by design. Nissan just had a terrible truck. Wouldve been a hit in a Tundra, or a Ram instead of that VM motori junk.

It's interesting to me how different the first 2 half ton diesels were aimed.

Ram went for all out fuel efficiency, which make sense, since they already have a "low" power level 3/4 ton.

Nissan was going for a HD 1/2 ton. I heard a rumor they designed the truck to be a 3/4 ton, but ran into an issue with a contract cummins has with ram that they can not provide an engine for any other 3/4 to 1 ton pick ups. No idea if this is true, but it kinda makes sense. Like I mentioned before, there was just no benefit over a 3/4 ton, it was just as expensive and didn't get any better fuel economy.

There was also rumors that Toyota was going to use the same engine in the Tundra, but obviously that never happened. It's surprising that Toyota hasn't offered a diesel to the US market yet, considering how many diesels of all sizes they sell to the rest of the world.

 

[Rockbuggy84]

Wife’s cousin just bought a 2020 1/2ton chevy crew cab with the diesel. He had a 2015 1/2ton chevy crew cab 5.3 he just sold.

Said the truck is a joke around town compared to his 15. Not really impressed with the power and the suspension is too soft. He hooked up his travel trailer for camping and it’s squatting bad and he felt sway like never before. He had zero complaints with his 15 gas.

He’s headed out for camping today and he’s got quite a few hills ahead of him. I’ll text him in a few hours for an update on how it does.

On a separate note, it is one of the ugliest trucks I’ve ever seen. He showed up to a bbq and everyone had the same response, it looks like a Honda Ridgeline.

 

[M92PV4U]

Living in and planning on continuing to live in California I am fearful of diesels. Not that I should be now for anything one ton and down but I don't want to buy a new or expensive vehicle and have it taken off of the road before I'm done making payments.

 

[Aggie06]

Wife’s cousin just bought a 2020 1/2ton chevy crew cab with the diesel. He had a 2015 1/2ton chevy crew cab 5.3 he just sold.

Said the truck is a joke around town compared to his 15. Not really impressed with the power and the suspension is too soft. He hooked up his travel trailer for camping and it’s squatting bad and he felt sway like never before. He had zero complaints with his 15 gas.

He’s headed out for camping today and he’s got quite a few hills ahead of him. I’ll text him in a few hours for an update on how it does.

On a separate note, it is one of the ugliest trucks I’ve ever seen. He showed up to a bbq and everyone had the same response, it looks like a Honda Ridgeline.

My major complaint on my 2019 is the suspension. The valving/spring rate makes for a bouncy ride on rough roads.

 

[Crankylove]

I’ve got two co-workers with the Ram 1500 4x4 diesel. Both have said pretty much the same things

They ride well on the pavement, get great highway mileage (for a full size truck), get good city mileage, and have been trouble free, both have done nothing but fluid changes and tires in the 2-3 years they’ve had them.

Also said that for a 4x4, they sit too low, suspension is too soft, and anything more than about 1,000 lbs of trailer and they’re gutless and the mileage drops way off (which I would think would be expected) They love the mileage, but it’s less truck than they were expecting, coming from a Ram 2500 gasser and an F150 with the Coyote.

 

[TrikeKid]

The diesel half tons all miss the mark for everyone but "Hurr durr I gots me a diesel" guys. They cost so much more that by the time you see any return on investment the thing's likely started having problems with all the late model emissions systems. I can see the appeal, I'd like to do something with one of those 4.5 v6's that IH/Ford did together (cut down 6.0) in say, an F100 but it would just be to do it, not because I thought it was gonna print money going down the road compared to a v8.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Wife’s cousin just bought a 2020 1/2ton chevy crew cab with the diesel. He had a 2015 1/2ton chevy crew cab 5.3 he just sold.

Said the truck is a joke around town compared to his 15. Not really impressed with the power and the suspension is too soft. He hooked up his travel trailer for camping and it’s squatting bad and he felt sway like never before. He had zero complaints with his 15 gas.

He’s headed out for camping today and he’s got quite a few hills ahead of him. I’ll text him in a few hours for an update on how it does.

On a separate note, it is one of the ugliest trucks I’ve ever seen. He showed up to a bbq and everyone had the same response, it looks like a Honda Ridgeline.

Did he not test drive one first?

Does it at least best the 5.3 on fuel?

I’ve got two co-workers with the Ram 1500 4x4 diesel. Both have said pretty much the same things

They ride well on the pavement, get great highway mileage (for a full size truck), get good city mileage, and have been trouble free, both have done nothing but fluid changes and tires in the 2-3 years they’ve had them.

Also said that for a 4x4, they sit too low, suspension is too soft, and anything more than about 1,000 lbs of trailer and they’re gutless and the mileage drops way off (which I would think would be expected) They love the mileage, but it’s less truck than they were expecting, coming from a Ram 2500 gasser and an F150 with the Coyote.

Do they really get the high 20s mpg that everyone claimed?

At least dodge got one thing right with the 1/2 ton diesel, it gets significantly better mileage than it's gas brother.



I don't see why they can't make something that is 2/3s of a a 3/4 ton? With how much capacity the new 3/4 ton trucks have. The 1/2 ton should be able to replace an older 3/4 ton for some. It doesn't seem crazy to me that they should be able to have a diesel engine that can match that. A ~4L 6 cyl should be able make near 300 hp (the 6.6 and 6.7s are closing in on 500) and have the same or better towing capacity as the gas engine offerings in the same truck, while using less fuel.

 

[Aggie06]

Did he not test drive one first?

Does it at least best the 5.3 on fuel?



Do they really get the high 20s mpg that everyone claimed?

At least dodge got one thing right with the 1/2 ton diesel, it gets significantly better mileage than it's gas brother.



I don't see why they can't make something that is 2/3s of a a 3/4 ton? With how much capacity the new 3/4 ton trucks have. The 1/2 ton should be able to replace an older 3/4 ton for some. It doesn't seem crazy to me that they should be able to have a diesel engine that can match that. A ~4L 6 cyl should be able make near 300 hp (the 6.6 and 6.7s are closing in on 500) and have the same or better towing capacity as the gas engine offerings in the same truck, while using less fuel.

The max tow package for a 2019 Chevy 1500 has a capacity of 11,000 lbs with the 5.3L, and 12,200 with the 6.2L. The 2020s have slightly higher numbers. However, the 3.0 diesel is only rated for 9,300 lbs.

I guess, what’s the point of a 2/3 ton at that point? To me, the short bed limits those trucks as much as anything. Although, I have seen some set up for gooseneck trailers.

 

[rockota]

Did he not test drive one first?

Does it at least best the 5.3 on fuel?



Do they really get the high 20s mpg that everyone claimed?

At least dodge got one thing right with the 1/2 ton diesel, it gets significantly better mileage than it's gas brother.



I don't see why they can't make something that is 2/3s of a a 3/4 ton? With how much capacity the new 3/4 ton trucks have. The 1/2 ton should be able to replace an older 3/4 ton for some. It doesn't seem crazy to me that they should be able to have a diesel engine that can match that. A ~4L 6 cyl should be able make near 300 hp (the 6.6 and 6.7s are closing in on 500) and have the same or better towing capacity as the gas engine offerings in the same truck, while using less fuel.

You mean like the titan cd that you don’t like?

 

[YotaAtieToo]

You mean like the titan cd that you don’t like?

It had the capability, but the same mpg and cost of a 3/4 ton.

Maybe it's like the old "good, fast or cheap, pick 2"

Towing capacity, milage, ride, price. Pick 2

 

[Mvanhelden]

I’d rather have a gas 3/4 ton over a diesel half, about the same price, with twice the truck.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

I’d rather have a gas 3/4 ton over a diesel half, about the same price, with twice the truck.

Like I said, pick 2. You get price and capabilities. I had a 2018 6.2 F250 last year. I actually really liked it, but it wasn't super impressive towing, and really rode like shit. Even with a 90 gal fuel tank, tool box, air comp, and a the rest of the 8' bed filled with stuff. I'm not a princess by any means, my truck is a 97 F350.

The 6.2 hauls ass, and towed ~7-8k fine. Once you get into 12-14k it sucks, then add mountains and or high altitude, forget it. Not having a turbo to cram air into your engine at high altitude is something people overlook when talking up gas 3/4 tons.

I'd pick a 3.5 ecoboost over a 6.2 in an F250 hands down. A 5.0 ecoboost would be sweet also.
​​​​​​

 

[landen300]

7.3 psd hp? I said 300hp not 200hp

I've heard a basic gas F250 can be had for less than a basic F150. When you factor in the 3.0 psd only coming on lariat or higher, you could easily get a super duty diesel for less.

Hey now, my 2002 7.3 with a manual trans is rated at 275/525 stock...

But yeah, totally could get a duty 6.7 for cheaper than a F-150 with the required equipment to get the 3.0L Diesel
When I was looking at buying a duty, a similarly equipped F-250 was cheaper than the F-150 in some cases.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Hey now, my 2002 7.3 with a manual trans is rated at 275/525 stock...

But yeah, totally could get a duty 6.7 for cheaper than a F-150 with the required equipment to get the 3.0L Diesel
When I was looking at buying a duty, a similarly equipped F-250 was cheaper than the F-150 in some cases.

Well my 97 7.3 manual was rated at 210hp of course I added a 80 hp tuner, but also added 330k miles, so I'm sure closer to 200 than 300 ​​​​​​

The one thing is that gas F250s are pretty rare in the used market, while F150s are plenty.

I've seen a TON of 17+ excab, long bed, 4x4, 6.2 F250s as work trucks lately. I even had one last year. I really liked it, I wouldn't hesitate to buy one for an all around truck.

 

[Crankylove]

“Do they really get the high 20s mpg that everyone claimed? ”

Both are claiming 26-28 straight highway, low 20’s mixed, high teens around town. I’ve never been in one, so I have no idea how true that is.

Side note, my brother just picked up a ‘18 Silverado, CC, 4x4, DOD 5.3, and gets about that same mileage. I have no idea how it would compare to the diesel power wise, but fuel economy so far would seem to be about the same, but without the diesel premium, or increased repai costs.

 

[Projectjunkie]

Roc Doc had a dodge IIRC, he shared info, I followed in case I find them when they hit my DD price point


I'm having a hard time justifying diesel over gas these days, ulsd, def, dpf, higher fuel costs, common rail, now the gas engines are getting better and better, I can't see paying the diesel premium

though I did find a 5cyl turbo diesel Mercedes recently, thinking it would make a cool beater, or could turn an older 2wd short bed into a sweet cruiser/ dd, just not fast

 

[inthefield]

My boss has a 2018 F150 with the little powerstroke, it replaced a 2016 with the 5.0. He loves it and swears an honest 23 mpg combined for him on his.

My father just picked up a 2020 Chevrolet 1500 with the 3.0 Duramax as his 190 mile a day commuter, had calculated commute mileage of 27, at 80 mph it doesn't even feel like it's working.

I've driven both of them and I would hands down love to own a new baby max, and this is coming from a guy that has both a 7.3 and a 6.7 Ford in the driveway right now.

 

[Projectjunkie]

My boss has a 2018 F150 with the little powerstroke, it replaced a 2016 with the 5.0. He loves it and swears an honest 23 mpg combined for him on his.

My father just picked up a 2020 Chevrolet 1500 with the 3.0 Duramax as his 190 mile a day commuter, had calculated commute mileage of 27, at 80 mph it doesn't even feel like it's working.

I've driven both of them and I would hands down love to own a new baby max, and this is coming from a guy that has both a 7.3 and a 6.7 Ford in the driveway right now.

Please keep us updated on these trucks.

I have some hope for the baby duramax, isuzu has a long history with diesel engines, aside from lb7 injectors only getting 100k there hasn't hasn't really been a bad duramax and Chevy seems to integrate them well, not treating it like an after thought

 

[YotaAtieToo]

My boss has a 2018 F150 with the little powerstroke, it replaced a 2016 with the 5.0. He loves it and swears an honest 23 mpg combined for him on his.

My father just picked up a 2020 Chevrolet 1500 with the 3.0 Duramax as his 190 mile a day commuter, had calculated commute mileage of 27, at 80 mph it doesn't even feel like it's working.

I've driven both of them and I would hands down love to own a new baby max, and this is coming from a guy that has both a 7.3 and a 6.7 Ford in the driveway right now.

23 combined is pretty good really. They say the ecoboost is supposed to get that, but I don't know if they can. Ours used to read 18-19 combined bone stock. I went from 275/60r18s to 275/65r18s (like an inch taller maybe) and now it says 16. I haven't hand calculated in a while, I probably should. I wonder if the tires size messed up the lie o meter more than the actual mileage? The speedo is only 1 mph off.

 

[DRTDEVL]

I don't see why they can't make something that is 2/3s of a a 3/4 ton? With how much capacity the new 3/4 ton trucks have. The 1/2 ton should be able to replace an older 3/4 ton for some. It doesn't seem crazy to me that they should be able to have a diesel engine that can match that. A ~4L 6 cyl should be able make near 300 hp (the 6.6 and 6.7s are closing in on 500) and have the same or better towing capacity as the gas engine offerings in the same truck, while using less fuel.

They already are 2/3 of a 3/4 ton.

A 2020 Silverado 1500 can tow, when properly equipped, 9800 lbs.

My 1994 K3500 dually is rated to tow.... Only 10,000 lbs.