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D44 Chromoly axle brand strength. And/or beefing up outers

Can we look at the 10 factory axles for a second....

I personally think they are the cheapest grade of Chromolly axles there is.... My buddy has/ had them in his cherokee on 33's and destroyed both sides in 1 weekend, he did have a ratchet locker... Then he pulled the locker (for other reasons) and managed to still break the ears on a set... He wasn't bouncing it or pushing it stupid hard, yet still broke shit. That same jeep is now running G2 axles with the ratchet locker again and hydro assist and 35's and he has not broke anything the last couple times out. He still has the 10 factory axles (replaced under warranty), but keeps them for back ups.

This is my only experience with 10 factory, but it's very similar to your experience....



I have revolution Chromolly's in my scout D44 axles, I was pushing 38" boggers on a heavy jeep for a couple trips, and then pushing 40" tires for 1 trip and no broken parts... The biggest difference there is scout axles are 27 outters though, but the same 5-760X joint. I have 1 tons to put under my jeep now, so I wont be on this wagon much longer though.
 
06h3 said:
If your dead set of this axle I’d consider RCVs, I think the you will have success with them. Then if the R&P pops do a jantz kit to run the 8.9in rear Jk R&P.

I know it’s a lot of money but it’s probably the way to go IF your dead set on this axle being your final axle.
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He's pretty set on keeping the 44 alive for a while at least. RCV and a Jantz kit would likely work well for the size tire he's running, but at the end of the day that's still about 2 grand to do all that work, which would go a long way towards a 60. But then you've still gotta consider that something has to be done about the rear 9 inch and he'd have to have new beadlocks, so IDK the costs add up fast either way.


DFW Rusty said:
Can we look at the 10 factory axles for a second....

I personally think they are the cheapest grade of Chromolly axles there is.... My buddy has/ had them in his cherokee on 33's and destroyed both sides in 1 weekend, he did have a ratchet locker... Then he pulled the locker (for other reasons) and managed to still break the ears on a set... He wasn't bouncing it or pushing it stupid hard, yet still broke shit. That same jeep is now running G2 axles with the ratchet locker again and hydro assist and 35's and he has not broke anything the last couple times out. He still has the 10 factory axles (replaced under warranty), but keeps them for back ups.

This is my only experience with 10 factory, but it's very similar to your experience....



I have revolution Chromolly's in my scout D44 axles, I was pushing 38" boggers on a heavy jeep for a couple trips, and then pushing 40" tires for 1 trip and no broken parts... The biggest difference there is scout axles are 27 outters though, but the same 5-760X joint. I have 1 tons to put under my jeep now, so I wont be on this wagon much longer though.
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I think that you may be right, according to one site I saw the older TEN shafts were 1541 Manganese steel, which is substantially weaker than 4340. Supposedly their newer shafts are made from 4340 now. But I have reservations about steel from certain other countries.
 
Yep, I knew it wouldn’t be cheap but if you wanna keep that axle and you want your best shot at not breaking, that’s the way to go
 
Ran chromos in a 44....like polishing a turd. I dont get how they like in Jk's . But if you are sold on keeping it, id say RCV. if not go D60.
 
Gunhand1

I know the internet doesn't believe wheeling on Dana 44s is possible, but there are plenty of people successfully wheeling Dana 44s on fairly difficult trails and tires bigger than 35"s with 4340 shafts and good joints. Unless your buddy drives his Jeep like it's a rock bouncer, a good set of joints and shafts should hold up reasonably well to 37s in a TJ.

I am not sure why everyone is posting concerns about breaking gears :confused: In my experience, the Dana 44 gear set is way overmatched to the axle and joint size which has always been the limiting factor for Dana 44s. The 5-760X is a better match strengthwise to a Dana 30/35 gear set.

I suspect the 10 Factory shafts have an improper heat treat or are not actually made of 4340 based your description of how easy the shafts are to break that DFW Rusty corroborated. Has your buddy broken any of the Spicer 5-760X joints, or just outer shafts?

If he spends the money to get better quality shafts, I strongly recommend getting 30 spline outers like I mentioned in my first post. RCVs are good axles, but I think they are over-priced and over-rated. They have a hell of a marketing team. I would only go for them over a 30 spline outer and bushing-style U-joint setup if I were going to drive it on the street with flanges.

Go take a look at the kind of wheeling DFW Rusty was doing with 38" tires and Dana 44s without axle breakage just recently.

Here's my old V8-powered rig with a welded Dana 44 and 38" Michelin XMLs (140 Lbs per wheel and tire). The Dana 44 held up reasonably well running some decent trails.
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'84 Bronco II said:
Gunhand1

I know the internet doesn't believe wheeling on Dana 44s is possible, but there are plenty of people successfully wheeling Dana 44s on fairly difficult trails and tires bigger than 35"s with 4340 shafts and good joints. Unless your buddy drives his Jeep like it's a rock bouncer, a good set of joints and shafts should hold up reasonably well to 37s in a TJ.

I am not sure why everyone is posting concerns about breaking gears :confused: In my experience, the Dana 44 gear set is way overmatched to the axle and joint size which has always been the limiting factor for Dana 44s. The 5-760X is a better match strengthwise to a Dana 30/35 gear set.

I suspect the 10 Factory shafts have an improper heat treat or are not actually made of 4340 based your description of how easy the shafts are to break that DFW Rusty corroborated. Has your buddy broken any of the Spicer 5-760X joints, or just outer shafts?

If he spends the money to get better quality shafts, I strongly recommend getting 30 spline outers like I mentioned in my first post. RCVs are good axles, but I think they are over-priced and over-rated. They have a hell of a marketing team. I would only go for them over a 30 spline outer and bushing-style U-joint setup if I were going to drive it on the street with flanges.

Go take a look at the kind of wheeling DFW Rusty was doing with 38" tires and Dana 44s without axle breakage just recently.

Here's my old V8-powered rig with a welded Dana 44 and 38" Michelin XMLs (140 Lbs per wheel and tire). The Dana 44 held up reasonably well running some decent trails.
Untitled.png
Click to expand...
What do you mean by “held up reasonably well?”
 
It can be done @‘84 bronco II I had a buddy wheel the hammers for years on TJ rubicon 44s and 37s and a buddy race KOH on 37s on a JK44.

I think the biggest thing is if your not doing RCVs is ditching the spicer joints and doing a needle less u joint. They aren’t big enough, the Jk u joints are much bigger but the old school 44 joints aren’t big.
 
that failure looks suspect to me on the material being to hard. 4340 does that if to hard in the heat treat.

RCV would hold up, but there was a weird issue with a buddies TJ on 37 and the stub shaft pulling out of the bell. 2 piece outer design. He now has 60s.
 
Beat95yj said:
Bunch of web wheelers in here. RCV? 30spline outers? In a heavy ass TJ on 37’s?

Get a 60 with 35+ spline outers. Skip the turd polish.
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I agree but gave my options IF he was dead set on the axle he has which is sounded like he was.
 
Weasel said:
that failure looks suspect to me on the material being to hard. 4340 does that if to hard in the heat treat.

RCV would hold up, but there was a weird issue with a buddies TJ on 37 and the stub shaft pulling out of the bell. 2 piece outer design. He now has 60s.
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Was the roll pin coming out?
 
Beat95yj said:
I am a Web wheeler and I drive like a girl, so a dana 44.

:flipoff2:

Edit: I do think the more modern unit bearing outers are stronger than the old-school spindle/hub assemblies.
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I agree, and the jk style R&P certainly is… but I didn’t want to hijack the conversation because that never happens here!
 
Wilson said:
What do you mean by “held up reasonably well?”
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It was a super low-buck beater rig. All I did was put on the XMLs and fix some of the ghetto fab. The axle was a stock '73 F150 HP Dana 44 with F250 outers and mismatched hubs (Mile Marker and Warn Premium). The ball joints were completely worn out when I bought it. I installed new 5-760X joints and tack welded them in when I installed some new Spicer ball joints. I preemptively bought some 19 spline flanges on Pirate that I kept in my tool bag since I knew I was probably going to start breaking things when I put the XMLs on.

I ran it for about a year on some fairly hard stuff trying to keep up with buggies and guys on tons. I broke the Mile marker hub first and replaced it with a flange (left the Warn hub since the diff was welded). I ended up breaking the stock driver side stub on the last run before parting it out when I dropped that tire into a crack and drove through it. The previous owner had previously broke a U-joint on that side, but he was running parts store brand joints. This is the spot where it broke for reference:
full

full


I planned to put 4340 shafts with 30 spline outers in (I already bought the 30 spline flanges), but ended up parting it out before I got that far. I cut up that Dana 44 and will be running it in my 4600 Bronco.

TRINDU said:
30 spline is 30 spline
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The stock outers on most legacy Dana 44s is 19 spline, and the newer unit bearing stuff is bigger.
 
'84 Bronco II said:
Gunhand1

I know the internet doesn't believe wheeling on Dana 44s is possible, but there are plenty of people successfully wheeling Dana 44s on fairly difficult trails and tires bigger than 35"s with 4340 shafts and good joints. Unless your buddy drives his Jeep like it's a rock bouncer, a good set of joints and shafts should hold up reasonably well to 37s in a TJ.
Click to expand...

I've seen guys with them under fullsizes also, but they obviously aren't actually wheelin them.

Everyones style is different, and some people can make pretty weak parts work. I also think that tire hieght isn't always the biggest factor in how things hold up. If you are easy on things, bigger tires roll over thing and can be easier on parts. I know a guy who ran 42s on D44s under a zuk with good luck. Ran a set of 37 red Labels for a while and broke every axle on the thing :laughing:

'84 Bronco II said:
I am not sure why everyone is posting concerns about breaking gears :confused: In my experience, the Dana 44 gear set is way overmatched to the axle and joint size which has always been the limiting factor for Dana 44s. The 5-760X is a better match strengthwise to a Dana 30/35 gear set.
Click to expand...

I was wondering that also, I don't think I've ever seen a D44 break a r&p on the trail.

'84 Bronco II said:
I suspect the 10 Factory shafts have an improper heat treat or are not actually made of 4340 based your description of how easy the shafts are to break that DFW Rusty corroborated. Has your buddy broken any of the Spicer 5-760X joints, or just outer shafts?

If he spends the money to get better quality shafts, I strongly recommend getting 30 spline outers like I mentioned in my first post. RCVs are good axles, but I think they are over-priced and over-rated. They have a hell of a marketing team. I would only go for them over a 30 spline outer and bushing-style U-joint setup if I were going to drive it on the street with flanges.

Go take a look at the kind of wheeling DFW Rusty was doing with 38" tires and Dana 44s without axle breakage just recently.

Here's my old V8-powered rig with a welded Dana 44 and 38" Michelin XMLs (140 Lbs per wheel and tire). The Dana 44 held up reasonably well running some decent trails.
Click to expand...

Those tire may be heavy, but have zero traction, not sure that's a good comparison :flipoff2:

06h3 said:
It can be done @‘84 bronco II I had a buddy wheel the hammers for years on TJ rubicon 44s and 37s and a buddy race KOH on 37s on a JK44.

I think the biggest thing is if your not doing RCVs is ditching the spicer joints and doing a needle less u joint. They aren’t big enough, the Jk u joints are much bigger but the old school 44 joints aren’t big.
Click to expand...

The TJ and JK44s are much different than the older ones. 797 ujoint vs 1350 and larger stub shafts.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
I've seen guys with them under fullsizes also, but they obviously aren't actually wheelin them.

Everyones style is different, and some people can make pretty weak parts work. I also think that tire hieght isn't always the biggest factor in how things hold up. If you are easy on things, bigger tires roll over thing and can be easier on parts. I know a guy who ran 42s on D44s under a zuk with good luck. Ran a set of 37 red Labels for a while and broke every axle on the thing :laughing:



I was wondering that also, I don't think I've ever seen a D44 break a r&p on the trail.



Those tire may be heavy, but have zero traction, not sure that's a good comparison :flipoff2:



The TJ and JK44s are much different than the older ones. 797 ujoint vs 1350 and larger stub shafts.
Click to expand...
I should have added my other friend, ford HP44 and beat the fuck out of it. His issues were always spicer joints and he was on 38in creepy crawlers. I’d just avoid the spicer joints. I’m not a fan of the needle-less u joint maintenance but I think it’s that or RCVs for an old school 44
 
YotaAtieToo said:
I've seen guys with them under fullsizes also, but they obviously aren't actually wheelin them.

Everyones style is different, and some people can make pretty weak parts work. I also think that tire hieght isn't always the biggest factor in how things hold up. If you are easy on things, bigger tires roll over thing and can be easier on parts. I know a guy who ran 42s on D44s under a zuk with good luck. Ran a set of 37 red Labels for a while and broke every axle on the thing :laughing:



I was wondering that also, I don't think I've ever seen a D44 break a r&p on the trail.



Those tire may be heavy, but have zero traction, not sure that's a good comparison :flipoff2:



The TJ and JK44s are much different than the older ones. 797 ujoint vs 1350 and larger stub shafts.
Click to expand...
You also know a guy that ran 49’s….
 
YotaAtieToo said:
Those tire may be heavy, but have zero traction, not sure that's a good comparison :flipoff2:
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They weren't the greatest, but grooved the way I did made a huge difference. I ran them at 4 PSI and honestly they weren't that bad compared to a lot of popular DOT tires. The biggest issue was just how stiff they were. In addition to the extra bite, the grooving really helped tread conformability.
 
'84 Bronco II said:
Gunhand1


I suspect the 10 Factory shafts have an improper heat treat or are not actually made of 4340 based your description of how easy the shafts are to break that DFW Rusty corroborated. Has your buddy broken any of the Spicer 5-760X joints, or just outer shafts?

If he spends the money to get better quality shafts, I strongly recommend getting 30 spline outers like I mentioned in my first post. RCVs are good axles, but I think they are over-priced and over-rated. They have a hell of a marketing team. I would only go for them over a 30 spline outer and bushing-style U-joint setup if I were going to drive it on the street with flanges.

Go take a look at the kind of wheeling DFW Rusty was doing with 38" tires and Dana 44s without axle breakage just recently.

Here's my old V8-powered rig with a welded Dana 44 and 38" Michelin XMLs (140 Lbs per wheel and tire). The Dana 44 held up reasonably well running some decent trails.
Untitled.png
Click to expand...
We did find this info about the TEN factory shafts, not sure how old these were bu they were likely the ones made from 1541 Manganese. Supposedly the newer TEN shafts are 4340.

Neither of the shaft breaks were at the joint/yoke, both failed in similar spots on the outers.

And I love that old BroncII. I'd love to have one but they all but rotted away years ago.

YotaAtieToo said:
I was wondering that also, I don't think I've ever seen a D44 break a r&p on the trail.



The TJ and JK44s are much different than the older ones. 797 ujoint vs 1350 and larger stub shafts.
Click to expand...
After thinking about it for a while I can only think of one d44 r&p failure. It was in a rear steer moon buggy on 37 reds that got bound up pretty good.


I'm probably just ignorant on this whole thing but where does the 797 nomenclature come from? I've only ever seen the 760x size joint referred to as a 1310WJ series joint, even by Spicer. I could see calling them 737 joints since I got pretty good at making them fly :flipoff2:
 

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Gunhand1 said:
I'm probably just ignorant on this whole thing but where does the 797 nomenclature come from? I've only ever seen the 760x size joint referred to as a 1310WJ series joint, even by Spicer. I could see calling them 737 joints since I got pretty good at making them fly :flipoff2:
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He's just mixing the old obsolete hot forged Spicer U-joint part number (5-297X) with the current cold forged Spicer U-joint part number (5-760X).

Gunhand1 said:
And I love that old BroncII. I'd love to have one but they all but rotted away years ago.
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Thanks, that one got crushed and turned into Chinesium :laughing:
 
white-rhino said:
IMO any D44 shaft is at its limits with a 37" tire. Can they survive? Yes, but you need to be careful. Make sure you upgrade your axleshaft joints too.
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I broke chromemoly D44 shafts in a 1.6 Samurai on 38s that took out the Detroit each time they broke. I swapped in a D60 front and kept the Wagoneer 44 rear with Dutchman axles. I am not a fan of wasting money building up 44s when junkyard 60s are so cheap.
 
TrailTamer said:
does that matter?

I have not seen a single unit bearing stub shaft broke behind the yoke (where it butts up to unit bearing), online and in real life.
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I think, just like the 05+SD UB, the shorter stub shaft allows for less twist, and could be argued as stronger. Also the Dodge d60 UB stubs seem to hold up well.

On another note, part of me as wondered how much balljoints play into broken shafts for d30/d44s? I know there is BJE out for them now, and that is more money down the hole, but anyone that has watched a d30/d44 axle get beat on has seen the movement in the balljoints. It has got to create some type of extra load on the shaft/ujoint.
 
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