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Critique my gear patter

Captain Call said:
I'm like you. Don't know shit about fuck on this. That's why I say get the book.
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Hate to do this but I think you’ve been giving bad advice since your first comment in the thread. Every time you’ve had him put the pinion further in you’ve pushed the coast side pattern outward to where the contact patch for the coast side is radially at the very outer edge of the ring gear.

I think he needs to pull .020 out of the pinion stack. Set backlash at .012 and see what he gets.
 
JR4X said:
Hate to do this but I think you’ve been giving bad advice since your first comment in the thread. Every time you’ve had him put the pinion further in you’ve pushed the coast side pattern outward to where the contact patch for the coast side is radially at the very outer edge of the ring gear.

I think he needs to pull .020 out of the pinion stack. Set backlash at .012 and see what he gets.
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I've never once said to shim one way or another. Just said I didn't like the pattern.
 
Captain Call said:
And that said shim one way or another? And it wasn't shallow? Come awn.
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Which way was he going to go logically? Based on that comment? Further out?

I wouldn’t have made any determination without seeing his coast side pattern first. But his very first pic is the best drive side he’s shown so far. So… no. It wasn’t shallow based on that pic alone. If he went back to what he had in the first pic and that brought the coast side contact back into the center of the tooth he was closer to start with than where he’s at now.

@op. Do you have setup bearings or are you pressing it apart and together every move?
 
MuntCuffin said:
Nope, don't have a book. Using pattern guides offered by the innerwebnet and the collective retardation of irate. I'll put it on my shopping list, looks like something I'd want on a shelf.

The guide patterns I found on the inner web says sharp lines on the top or the bottom of the pattern is bad. To me it looks like there is forming a sharp line at the bottom of the pattern at the root of the tooth. Flying by the seat of my big boy pants here.
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You're 100% correct, the sharp line at the bottom is the indication that the pinion is too deep.

The first pattern where you added 0.010 looks really good to me. The second pattern where you backed off by 0.004 looks good as well. I would run either one all day long.
 
Captain Call said:
You have this book yet?
1000002246.jpg
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Does it have the info and parts breakdowns for the real obscure shit that's hard to find on the internet? Does it get into MDT sized shit?
 
JR4X said:
Which way was he going to go logically? Based on that comment? Further out?

I wouldn’t have made any determination without seeing his coast side pattern first. But his very first pic is the best drive side he’s shown so far. So… no. It wasn’t shallow based on that pic alone. If he went back to what he had in the first pic and that brought the coast side contact back into the center of the tooth he was closer to start with than where he’s at now.

@op. Do you have setup bearings or are you pressing it apart and together every move?
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I was actually thinking move the carrier shims in that post. Seat the pattern deeper into the ring. But, you're right. Without seeing the coast side it's kinda moot.
 
JR4X said:
wouldn’t have made any determination without seeing his coast side pattern first. But his very first pic is the best drive side he’s shown so far. So… no. It wasn’t shallow based on that pic alone. If he went back to what he had in the first pic and that brought the coast side contact back into the center of the tooth he was closer to start with than where he’s at now.
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Oh the joy of setting gears :grinpimp:. His first pic definitely shows the drive side as shallow as the contact patch extends all the way to the top of the gear. The next two finally show the pattern contacting at a point below the top of the tooth but still have a roundish patch towards the root, textbook perfect pattern.

Unfortunately the coast side on the second round does show the pinion as a touch deep but what do you do at that point? Do you make the drive side perfect and the coast side deep, or the coast side perfect and the drive side shallow? I know which way I'd go.
 
Captain Call said:
I was actually thinking move the carrier shims in that post. Seat the pattern deeper into the ring. But, you're right. Without seeing the coast side it's kinda moot.
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That's not how it works

Adjusting pinion depth will change how the pattern is centered from the root to the tip of the gear.

Typically where the pattern lands side to side on the tooth was determined when the gears were manufactured and are not something you should try to influence by making adjustments. Although, the pattern can shift in this direction with adjustments, it's not something you should prioritize while making adjustments.

Now, the pattern may shift while moving the carrier side to side, it won't significantly affect where the pattern lies from root to tip. This is a common misconception while setting gears.
 
TanTJJim said:
Oh the joy of setting gears :grinpimp:. His first pic definitely shows the drive side as shallow as the contact patch extends all the way to the top of the gear. The next two finally show the pattern contacting at a point below the top of the tooth but still have a roundish patch towards the root, textbook perfect pattern.

Unfortunately the coast side on the second round does show the pinion as a touch deep but what do you do at that point? Do you make the drive side perfect and the coast side deep, or the coast side perfect and the drive side shallow? I know which way I'd go.
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I was late to the party, didn’t open this till this afternoon. Now that I’ve went back and scrolled up and down 30 times reviewing the pics I agree.

I do worry more about the “coast” side pattern than most because I do do full throttle loaded reverses. I broached the splines out of a 2019 superduty 60 side gear in reverse trying to tie a stuck lineman maintenance truck that was sideways in the road. In OP’s last coast side pic the contact pattern is on the weakest part of the ring gear tooth. I wouldn’t send that pattern out the door to anyone. I bet the ring gear teeth would fail before the spider gears in my above example in the last setup.
 
JR4X said:
I do worry more about the “coast” side pattern than most because I do do full throttle loaded reverses.
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That is definitely a use case where you'd want to pay a little more attention to the coast side :grinpimp:

I agree as well, the last setup is less than ideal. It seems the consensus among everyone with an eye for this is the pattern with the added 0.006" is pretty well on the money.
 
put some valve lapping compound in there and they'll wear into full tooth contact quicker


no
 
JR4X said:
Hate to do this but I think you’ve been giving bad advice since your first comment in the thread. Every time you’ve had him put the pinion further in you’ve pushed the coast side pattern outward to where the contact patch for the coast side is radially at the very outer edge of the ring gear.

I think he needs to pull .020 out of the pinion stack. Set backlash at .012 and see what he gets.
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I got set up bearings.

.020, huh?

I don't want to have to worry about this axle. Truck is heavy, but underpowered. Spinning 35's and locked and intend to use them. Pulling on tractors and stuck shit, sometimes in reverse.
 
Aren't you glad you asked CC for advice :lmao:

From your responses you have a good intuition for what you're looking at and at the end of the day it's your call.

Personally the pattern with 0.006" more than the original pattern was the best result and I'd be perfectly happy running that one.
 
You're second photo was the best and you never check the pattern until backlash is set
 
Once you are adequately frustrated redoing it, is probably where it is most fine :laughing:

I'm at 4k miles towing on my D70 pattern that I wasn't sure I'd make 500 and realistically will be just fine if it dies at 10k miles. Cheap gears, surprisingly forgiving
 
I know I'm late to the party today but that last pattern looks great, I assume you're putting it all back together now?
 
TanTJJim said:
I know I'm late to the party today but that last pattern looks great, I assume you're putting it all back together now?
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Yeah. Pattern shifted slightly with the pressed in inner pinion race and permanent outer bearing. Think I gained a whisper of pinion depth.

not much to matter, just made setting pinion bearing preload a real bitch.

I adjusted backlash a hair in response to that, sitting at .006 now and the pattern is close to what it was with the setup bearings. Good enough for me.

Just need to add .010 to each carrier bearing, press the bearings on, and hammer it into the housing. Waiting on the paint to dry on the pinion yoke. Might get it finished up on Monday or Tuesday.
 
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