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Caster: IFS 4Runner Questions...

FleshEater

FleshEater

Ordinary Average Guy
Joined
May 21, 2020
Member Number
832
Messages
3,337
Loc
Pennsylvania
I have never modified the front end of an IFS 4WD before. I ordered up an Icon Stage 1 kit and Icon says factory UCA’s are fine.

My caster wasn’t even 1 degree. It was around .61 degree. It’s going to handle like shit doing 80 mph down the interstate.

What should I be aiming for on this thing? I got a 1,500 mile trip in two weeks and this still isn’t ready. If it comes down to it I’ll be taking the Tahoe and not this damn Toyota.

My one option is to drop these coilovers and lower the front an inch, maybe an inch and half. The CV angle looks fine, but I don’t want to get out there on the interstate and end up with DW.

Any input is appreciated...other than light it on fire and say fawk it. :flipoff2:

I know I need another alignment as I just replaced the control arms all around. Bushings wouldn’t allow camber adjustment. No time to wait on an aftermarket company to ship 2 degree UCA’s.
 

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Welcome to high anti-dive Toyota suspension. Lifting them any gives you almost zero caster as you have found out. Replacement uppers with and extra 5* or so built in is what you need to keep the lift and make it handle well.

Or cut the cross bar out of the coil bucket and re-angle it to get rid of most of the anti-dive.
 
bdkw1 said:
Welcome to high anti-dive Toyota suspension. Lifting them any gives you almost zero caster as you have found out. Replacement uppers with and extra 5* or so built in is what you need to keep the lift and make it handle well.

Or cut the cross bar out of the coil bucket and re-angle it to get rid of most of the anti-dive.
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Well, that’s off the table at the moment. I have no idea what to do.

I attached the print out from the shop in my original post.
 
I’m not a huge fan of the adjustable UCA’s I’ve seen. I’m not keen on the idea of the upper ball joint staying put after adjustment without some sort of metal sleeve inserted.

I don’t even think companies like Total Chaos make 5 degree UCA’s. I saw JBA offers a 2 degree.
 
Not sure how different it is from my 96, but I have not touched the alignment since I bought it 130k miles ago. I put in the bilstien 5100 adjustable shocks at the 0.80" or whatever setting, drove perfect. When I added the winch, bumper and skid plate it felt a little squishy, so I went up to the highest (2.5" lift) setting. It sits higher than I want, and the camber is terrible, but honestly still drives great. I was even commuting on 505 for a while doing 85-90 (and still getting passed :laughing:) for weeks with no problem. I haven't check caster, but it's probably horrible, 0* I'd bet. These ifs rigs just drive good.

Run it.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
Not sure how different it is from my 96, but I have not touched the alignment since I bought it 130k miles ago. I put in the bilstien 5100 adjustable shocks at the 0.80" or whatever setting, drove perfect. When I added the winch, bumper and skid plate it felt a little squishy, so I went up to the highest (2.5" lift) setting. It sits higher than I want, and the camber is terrible, but honestly still drives great. I was even commuting on 505 for a while doing 85-90 (and still getting passed :laughing:) for weeks with no problem. I haven't check caster, but it's probably horrible, 0* I'd bet. These ifs rigs just drive good.

Run it.
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This steering is super light. Handles like garbage.

If I wasn’t planning on a 1,501 mile trip one way, then the same back, while wheeling all week, I wouldn’t worry. I REALLY don’t want anything to happen.

I’m really kicking around the idea of dropping these coilovers down to 0” lift and throwing the stock rear springs back in. Should ride fine and I’m sure we’ll have plenty of clearance for what we’re doing in CO.

This front end went from 18 3/16” to 23”. Should only have been 3.5” lift MAX.
 
You're replacing worn stock stuff with brand new stuff, it will settle.

Are the rear coils for more wieght capacity? I'd think about loading all the stuff and people you're taking then adjusting the front down to that.

Why 3.5" lift for 1" taller than stock tires anyway?
 
FleshEater said:
This steering is super light. Handles like garbage.

If I wasn’t planning on a 1,501 mile trip one way, then the same back, while wheeling all week, I wouldn’t worry. I REALLY don’t want anything to happen.

I’m really kicking around the idea of dropping these coilovers down to 0” lift and throwing the stock rear springs back in. Should ride fine and I’m sure we’ll have plenty of clearance for what we’re doing in CO.

This front end went from 18 3/16” to 23”. Should only have been 3.5” lift MAX.
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Kinda dumb question, but I'm gonna throw it out there just for process of elimination. You sure you got the correct kit with all the correct parts?
 
YotaAtieToo said:
You're replacing worn stock stuff with brand new stuff, it will settle.

Are the rear coils for more wieght capacity? I'd think about loading all the stuff and people you're taking then adjusting the front down to that.

Why 3.5" lift for 1" taller than stock tires anyway?
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These came set the way they are. I only wanted a 2” lift. The rear coils are only a 2” lift. These coilovers are freaking WAY high. I have the rear loaded with my spare tire, all my tools, and all my fluids and it’s sitting slightly nose high now.


BigWheel said:
Kinda dumb question, but I'm gonna throw it out there just for process of elimination. You sure you got the correct kit with all the correct parts?
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Dude, I thought the same thing. I cannot confirm since 4th and 5th gen parts swap each other. Everything bolted up, but I don’t know if it’s adjusted for a 4th or 5th gen.
 
This is what it looked like as soon as I installed it and rolled it back and forth a few times down the drive.
 

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Adjust the coils all the way down for now, once the coils break in, and/or you ad a bumper and winch, you can always go back up.
 
74weld make some that i believe solves this problem. HYDRODYNAMIC should have some insight, i know hes running them and IIRC was part of the R&D side
 
I was looking at the JBA’s and liked the price and the serviceability of them.

This will NEVER see the salt. So no worry there.

10-20 day lead times on just shipping, though.

I’m going to pay for two alignments. Get aligned after replacing all the control arms, drop it to 21.5” (which is 2.5” lift over factory), then align it again. If it settles a 1/2” it will be exactly a 2” lift, which would be ideal.

Icon sent these to eliminate any rake. It sits perfectly level with nothing in the rear cargo area.
 
FleshEater said:
I’m going to call Camburg today and see if they can expedite me their X arm with a normal ball joint.
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www.metaltech4x4.com

Light Racing FJ Cruiser/03+ 4Runner SPC Upper Control Arms

These light racing upper control arms provide camber and caster change for FJ Cruisers and 4Runners. Customize your vehicle with these upper control arms.
www.metaltech4x4.com www.metaltech4x4.com

Have total chaos uniballs on my tacoma and the light racing arms on the 4runner. Go with the Light Racing setup...
 
rockota said:
www.metaltech4x4.com

Light Racing FJ Cruiser/03+ 4Runner SPC Upper Control Arms

These light racing upper control arms provide camber and caster change for FJ Cruisers and 4Runners. Customize your vehicle with these upper control arms.
www.metaltech4x4.com www.metaltech4x4.com

Have total chaos uniballs on my tacoma and the light racing arms on the 4runner. Go with the Light Racing setup...
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Those adjustable arms are what I wanted to avoid.

JBA is 10-20 days out.

How much do the uniballs suck? This is not a DD, but a long distance driving vehicle.
 
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FleshEater said:
Those adjustable arms are what I wanted to avoid.

JBA is 10-20 days out.
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why? They are beefy and work well. Been very happy with mine. And the uniballs, while strong, can be noisy.. and also require some maintenance.
 
rockota said:
why? They are beefy and work well. Been very happy with mine. And the uniballs, while strong, can be noisy.. and also require some maintenance.
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Honestly, I’m more worried about finding a competent alignment shop to dick with them. Plus, not a huge fan on counting on a nut to maintain alignment.
 
74Weld is one of the few that is using polyurethane bushings at the chassis and sealed ball joints. The sealed ball joints have a normal maintenance interval. Rod ends have a race maintenance interval and depending on tolerance can be too tight when new which you can feel having to break the balls loose while steering at high speed with light input which can give an oversteer feeling.
Poly bushings on the chassis absorb road vibrations for a quieter and smoother ride as well as normal maintenance intervals.
74Weld billet head around the ball joint is also compact compared to other which can rub the tire. Some of the adjustable UCA are huge around the ball joint area and require offset wheels or narrow tires.
74Weld arms are also a work of art. Fully machined and anodized. I would go as far as to say you get more of a bargain with 74Weld arms due to the value they have vs the cheaper ones that have a higher markup for less quality. The simple fact that machining the bushing pockets requires a larger chunk of billet than a competitor that threads in rod ends to make up the length. Once those bushing pockets are made you don’t have the added cost of replacing rod ends as they wear out or the added points of failure with threads and clamping bolts.
 
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From what I'm seeing, Tacoma and 4Runner don't share the same parts when it comes to ball joints. Apparently they have different tapers?
 
I can get the Total Chaos uni-ball arms used from a forum member this week for $550. He said he just replaced the uni-balls, and the bushings look "ok."

Problem is, they could be bent, or some other issue I can't see online.
 
I am running Light Racing Ball joint UCA's FWIW.

Also drove my 4th gen 4r for years on stock UCA's. Drop your height a bit.
 
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