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Can-Am at KOH

YotaAtieToo said:
So what's the big advantage of the canned ham over the gayzer? Seems both are pretty bad ass but also have there fair share of issues.

Seems like when doing a build of this caliber that it would be a toss up. I do know can am has much better WB for desert, but is that really a big deal to change when you're talking a $100k build.
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I wish I’d known this before but I think the sub trans is capable of taking more horsepower than the rzr’s are. They also have bigger better clutches that take a bigger better belt. Now I want to see if you could run a turbo’d 3RZ through a Can-Am sub trans. About the only thing these triplets are missing is the horsepower to go over 100 mph with 35’s on them.
 
Isdtbower said:
Are most of those shocks Internal By Pass (IBP) then? I know the RZR's are on a stepping motor electronic shock and usually re-tuned at Fox for the increased speeds and weight.. Not "simply" single coil over shock. Jon didn't have time to really go thru the upgrades for a KOH UTV race. He stressed the course management as more important to finishing than do-dahs. Finishing is different than winning..........
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Shocks are all over the place. I believe that these guys are running IBP’s. Healy runs IBP’s. Some of the fast guys are just running tuned 3” remote reservoir coilovers.

If you look close these 3 Can-Am’s have the coilover on the lower a-arm where every other rig has them on the upper. I looked and without a custom chassis I can’t fit a-arms like what they are running. Almost looks like the old style pro am a-arms off of Shannon’s second IFS car but only running a single shock.
 
JR4X said:
I wish I’d known this before but I think the sub trans is capable of taking more horsepower than the rzr’s are. They also have bigger better clutches that take a bigger better belt. Now I want to see if you could run a turbo’d 3RZ through a Can-Am sub trans. About the only thing these triplets are missing is the horsepower to go over 100 mph with 35’s on them.
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OK, gotcha.

You know there are guys putting down 500hp out of those triples right? Not that it would last koh at that HP but I think 300-350hp would be do able.

Funny I've always thought the opposite, putting a real tcase and trans in. I feel like the sub trans on the sxs's is the worst part. 3rz is probably 4x's the weight of a sxs engine. Not including the trans weight difference.
 
Isdtbower said:
I doubt they started with a stock vehicle...........A used/not abused motor and some plastic. IMO.
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CT Raceworkx Instagram page says they started from 2020 stock vehicles and modified them. Pics show the same thing.
 
I believe Jon mentioned that Shannon's car was a total frame up build. I wonder what the statistics would be without those four (known) SXS's? The three classes kind of muddy the waters. But someone should be able to make some generalizations....maybe.
 
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Shannon’s is a full custom build using Polaris RZR Turbo S drivetrain. It’s an absolute shame he doesn’t do build threads anymore. He only really posted updates via Instagram story so the pictures were gone every 24 hours. I did do one screen grab. At this point I’m not sure that a Polaris has any advantage over the Can-Am. When I built mine I thought there were many advantages but I think I perceived incorrectly.

Edit, he’s still only running 32’s I think which put him at a terrible disadvantage to the 35’s that won. This is the first KOH finish for him in a SXS though. Got 13th.
 
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I skimmed this thread and can answer many of the questions here.

First of all I will say top, top end UTV's are <$100,000 including labor to have built by the top shops. I had multiple quotes in this range. In parts you can do it for $50,000 - $60,000 and that includes a great deal on a basic RR with no options.

Secondly I will say I ordered the twin CT RaceWorx chassis to match the winning chassis. I asked for Cheney's 2020 replica months ago after speaking with Kyle and CT, after multiple communication issues and delays with CT I backed out of the order and decided to build my own... meh.. no comment. Cheney does not get turn keys, CT makes him 1-3 chassis a year and he finishes them. I use a ton of CT parts, they are awesome, but was not going to go in $$$ with the responsiveness I was getting. CT makes bad assed, really nice stuff.

They are all surprisingly stock. Mine will not be too far off any of those cars. Besides they are my shitty welds and not a welders welds. The chassis have like 17 gussets plus some tubing changes for the boat side.

Can Am's have 4 very important advantages on rzr. The stock wheel base comes more ideal. The suspension geometry is better and in performance driving (not what 95% of the assholes that own them think they do) the difference comes out. The 3rd cylinder make big power easy and reliable and lower COG. They are safer and faster at high speed in sketchy terrain.

To go further on power. 230hp will not even stress a Can Am's drive train. 255hp is not putting anything at risk for endurance racing - stock diffs, stock shafts, tranny, block, turbo, exhaust, all not an issue.... where in a rzr 190 horse is jeopardizing pretty much everything in the drive train front to back.

many of these guys run stock knuckles with no issues in a can am. CT just puts a bigger bearing retainer clip in I think.

I am in a riding group of a 100+ people now. The rzr's need constant maintenance and are not built well at all stock. You would have a tough time with a mostly stock rzr keeping up and not breaking. The driveshafts arnt even balanced in a rzr.

I am not building a KOH car, I am build a woods car... different things.
 
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Pretty sure they ran 64" cars last year. I would guess the same this year but do not know.
 
Isdtbower said:
Would the UTV's have finished if averaged 5mph faster? Do they get re-framed after the three races this year? And I doubt their frames were stock. They do have to have some stock suspension measurements, I believe. But totally cro-mo, aluminum filled, etc. etc. Damn good show! What do you think the build cost might be? $100-150K? They were thought out as well as most of the 4400 in the field. I doubt they started with a stock vehicle...........A used/not abused motor and some plastic. IMO.
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not much of this is accurate. your are normally good for tech but this speculation is all wrong. Can Am thought them out and most everything else is bolt on, dont overthink it.
 
SLOWPOKE693 said:
The stock frames on the Can-Ams can be stiffened and gusseted in all the known weak spots with off the shelf parts.


Poke is using a bunch of stuff from those companies on his SxS build.
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Yes, i know that. I highly doubt those 3 rigs were just stock chassis with some gussets. The damn chassis is mostly 065, there is no way that could make it through both races without some major issues.

Then again, who knows what shape they're in now. The chassis could be getting scraped right now :laughing:
 
YotaAtieToo said:
Yes, i know that. I highly doubt those 3 rigs were just stock chassis with some gussets. The damn chassis is mostly 065, there is no way that could make it through both races without some major issues.

Then again, who knows what shape they're in now. The chassis could be getting scraped right now :laughing:
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You are wrong. I have a build sheet for one. Pretty sure I know.
 
They are running stock diffs, the front bulkheads are stock with gussets. They are running stock rear trailing arms. Billet knuckles being the only rear “trick” parts on all three of the cars.
 
Byro said:
They are running stock diffs, the front bulkheads are stock with gussets. They are running stock rear trailing arms. Billet knuckles being the only rear “trick” parts on all three of the cars.
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How they change the shock mounting that much with a stock bulkhead?
 
Byro said:
They are running stock diffs, the front bulkheads are stock with gussets. They are running stock rear trailing arms. Billet knuckles being the only rear “trick” parts on all three of the cars.
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And I believe those "trick" billet knuckles are Hess Motorsports parts that any one of us can can call and order.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
How they change the shock mounting that much with a stock bulkhead?
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Uhhhhh........ Buy longer shocks and build upper arms. With stock mounting points to go around them? A arm doesn't give a fawk what shape it is as long as the pivot points are in the correct place.

I can almost guarantee you the reason the shocks are mounted to the lower arms is because IBP shocks (and possibly internal bumps) are longer than regular coilovers and instead of mounting the tops in the drivers face they chose to go to the lower arms.
 
SLOWPOKE693 said:
Uhhhhh........ Buy longer shocks and build upper arms. With stock mounting points to go around them? A arm doesn't give a fawk what shape it is as long as the pivot points are in the correct place.

I can almost guarantee you the reason the shocks are mounted to the lower arms is because IBP shocks (and possibly internal bumps) are longer than regular coilovers and instead of mounting the tops in the drivers face they chose to go to the lower arms.
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You think they're 6-8" longer?

Seems like we're all speculating :laughing:

I have a hard time believing they are running a stock chassis with some gussets. But I doubt anyone will really be able to prove either way. Not like top race teams are usually giving away every detail.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
You think they're 6-8" longer?

Seems like we're all speculating :laughing:

I have a hard time believing they are running a stock chassis with some gussets. But I doubt anyone will really be able to prove either way. Not like top race teams are usually giving away every detail.
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I'm willing to bet that if you called CT Race Worx with a large pile of cash and a 2020 Can-Am they would build you the exact same car. You may not get priority like the factory team does but you can get one of those cars. What 4400 car wouldn't I be able to buy new if I went to the builder with a huge pile of cash? I can't think of any...

The Miller Bros are sponsored by Texplex and are regulars there. If/when I bump into one of them on a non race day you can bet your ass ill be asking a ton of questions about those cars. Maybe I'll get lucky and one will be on display at the races this season. If so, ill be taking a million pictures!
 
SLOWPOKE693 said:
I'm willing to bet that if you called CT Race Worx with a large pile of cash and a 2020 Can-Am they would build you the exact same car. You may not get priority like the factory team does but you can get one of those cars. What 4400 car wouldn't I be able to buy new if I went to the builder with a huge pile of cash? I can't think of any...

The Miller Bros are sponsored by Texplex and are regulars there. If/when I bump into one of them on a non race day you can bet your ass ill be asking a ton of questions about those cars. Maybe I'll get lucky and one will be on display at the races this season. If so, ill be taking a million pictures!
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Well, yes, but they aren't exactly posting a build thread up on FB.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
You think they're 6-8" longer?

Seems like we're all speculating :laughing:

I have a hard time believing they are running a stock chassis with some gussets. But I doubt anyone will really be able to prove either way. Not like top race teams are usually giving away every detail.
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I’m not speculating.

I know for a fact that last year and this year the cars ran stock diffs, and a gusseted factory front bulkhead. The front arms are nothing special either. Heims and tubular fabricated. Them boys know how to drive and they have the cars prepped.
 
Do you think there was an exception for those CanAm''s to get around 4400 frame rules? And those are minimums. Most bottom tubes are stuffed with Aluminum or they would be replaced every race. etc. etc.This is not new.

I did see one picture showing some small parts of the frame and definitely not close to a "significant others (SO)" 2020 Can Am RC. The " weak points" are well known for real spirited driving as my SO has found, but for-warned.. And not rocks or trees, The IFS arms broke in a witches hole. On the brakes hard, but instantly stopped at 10mph, And a bent trailing arm with all the power to that arm with paddles. There ARE awesome aftermarket parts. Just get on their list. Waiting now........ I look at the bent parts as fuses to save the frame. But now the frame is at risk, and why aftermarket stronger.... or mid strong with gussets. (I would guess)

Apparently insurance auctions are flush with sxs's because of over driving. I would suspect that OEM's would have to consider "Crush zones." That is usually not the build intent for KOH or most racing. And the reason for the safety equipment that the driver and co-dog must have.

Nothing different with other brands. Personally, I "feel safer" in the CanAm design vs others. But I am a duner more than a rock guy. But hang out with some rock racers..
 
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