What's new

california handgun registry removal things unconstitutional

87manche

kinder and gentler
Joined
May 20, 2020
Member Number
688
Messages
2,447
Loc
lake erie
imagine that.

I don't like that the court basically told them they would approve a 1:1 ratio of removing old guns from the list for new ones.
They'll just remove the most popular ones for something dumb and expensive and say "Look, you can still buy this."
I also have doubts that any of the 400 handguns already removed from the list will make it back on the list.

SAN DIEGO (CN) — A federal judge found California’s new handgun law provision requiring the removal of three grandfathered handguns for every new handgun added to its list of guns that can be sold in the state “substantially infringes” Californians’ ability to purchase handguns for self-defense.

U.S. District Chief Judge Dana Sabraw found the “three-to-one” provision of California’s Unsafe Handgun Act, which went into effect Jan. 1, “imposes a greater restriction on the pool of handguns available for sale in California” and may violate the Second Amendment.

“The court is not persuaded there is a ‘reasonable fit’ between the state’s asserted objective and the three-for-one provision,” Sabraw, a George W. Bush appointee, wrote.

“Defendants offer no justification for why the statute requires the removal of three handguns for each new handgun added, instead of, for instance, a proportional one-to-one.”

Sabraw’s ruling Friday is the first to come down since Assembly Bill 2847 took effect.

Gun owner Lana Rae Renna, leading a group of individual gun owners and lobbying groups including the Second Amendment Foundation, San Diego County Gun Owners PAC and Firearms Policy Coalition, sued the state this past November alleging the new provision violates their constitutional rights.

But it is not the first time the gun lobby has challenged California’s Unsafe Handgun Act, which regulates the sale of firearms by maintaining a roster of handguns deemed “not unsafe” based on certain requirements and therefore saleable in the Golden State.

To be deemed “not unsafe” handguns sold in California must have certain features. Semiautomatic pistols, for example, must have a chamber load indicator, magazine detachment mechanism and microstamping technology that places identifying information fired shell casings to assist law enforcement.

The requirements were implemented in 2007 to limit accidental discharges.

In 2018, the Ninth Circuit found the law did not infringe gun owner’s Second Amendment rights, as the UHA regulates commercial sales and not possession of a handgun.

But since that case did not address the issue of removal of handguns from the state’s roster and the enactment of AB 2847 occurred after the Ninth Circuit’s decision, Sabraw found the current lawsuit is not barred by the previous decision.

The number of handguns on the roster which can legally be purchased in California has shrunk significantly since the UHA added the microstamping requirement in 2013.

At the end of 2013, there were 1,273 makes and models of approved handguns on California’s roster. By Nov. 8, 2020, more than 400 handguns had been removed.

Three days after AB 2847 went into effect, there were 779 handguns on the state’s roster according to the first amended complaint.

The California Attorney General’s Office did not respond to an inquiry regarding the current number of handguns included on the roster.

In his 15-page order April 23, Sabraw found the gun owners and industry groups sufficiently pleaded the UHA substantially impacts their Second Amendment rights since the roster rule “limits the ability of law-abiding citizens to acquire firearms, which is critical to ensuring the Second Amendment right to keep arms.”

“Because plaintiffs have alleged the number of handguns available for purchase on the roster has steadily declined and will continue to decline, plaintiffs sufficiently demonstrate the UHA burdens protected conduct by substantially infringing plaintiffs’ ability to acquire firearms for self-defense,” Sabraw wrote.

The chief judge also found the state’s argument that AB 2847 satisfies the intermediate scrutiny requirement to find firearms laws are constitutionally consistent with the Second Amendment didn’t pass muster.

California argued the three-for-one provision furthers public safety by removing grandfathered handgun models when new models complying with applicable features are added to the state’s roster, facilitating “a transition over time toward full compliance.”

But Sabraw found there may not be a “reasonable fit” between the state’s safety goals and the three-for-one provision.

“The roster is already transitioning toward the compliance that defendants claim as their objective. As plaintiffs allege, application of the three-for-one provision will accelerate this trend further, rendering the number of handguns available for purchase unacceptably small,” Sabraw wrote.

The gun owners and organizations are represented by Raymond DiGuiseppe of Southport, North Carolina, and Michael Sousa of San Diego.

Neither the Attorney General’s Office nor the attorneys for the gun owners returned phone and email requests for comment by press time.
 
I hadn't heard that the microstamping had even been developed fully to the point that it even worked, what about if one changes the slide / caliber is that illegal now within the shithole known as SOC.


EtA... since someone bothered to hire lawyers and that shit why didnt they go after the whole premise that this is an offense to our constitutional right to KandB Arms and basically the entire state is a violation of same with any of their firearms laws.
If it has to be microstamped you’re not going to get many new guns on the list. No point even trying to argue about removing like for like.
 
Last edited:
If it has to be microstamped you’re not going to get many new guns on the list. No point even trying to argue about removing like for like.
well somebody must have made some, because they've removed 400 old ones from the list.
or they're looking the other way on their own requirement just so they can add 1 new gun and remove 3 from the list.
 
California's ridiculous gun laws is just one of the many reasons we're leaving.
Same. Closing escrow on the new house Thursday. Friday I will be ordering some 30 round AR mags to be shipped directly to the new house so I’ll have them when we get there. Looking forward to buying any handgun I want as well.
 
Same. Closing escrow on the new house Thursday. Friday I will be ordering some 30 round AR mags to be shipped directly to the new house so I’ll have them when we get there. Looking forward to buying any handgun I want as well.
We're supposed to close here next Monday and then on the new place a week later. We're doing a "lease back" on the house here until the end of May. That gives us the time we need to get the dogs up to Idaho and move all of our stuff.
 
California's ridiculous gun laws is just one of the many reasons we're leaving.
I always thought you were super liberal and you lived in your utopia...? Seriously.....was I wrong??
Same. Closing escrow on the new house Thursday. Friday I will be ordering some 30 round AR mags to be shipped directly to the new house so I’ll have them when we get there. Looking forward to buying any handgun I want as well.
Where you headed to fuck up Cali boy?? :flipoff2:
 
I always thought you were super liberal and you lived in your utopia...? Seriously.....was I wrong??

Where you headed to fuck up Cali boy?? :flipoff2:
Serious question: Are you going to a red state and are you going to vote blue in that new state?
I keep telling people that I'm not a liberal or progressive, but it seem you'd much rather believe the people here that misrepresent me than actually read what I say. I'm a Libertarian. I've said that 100's of times. I don't vote for Demos, except when I did vote for Carter the first time because I thought since he was an honest man because he'd been a naval officer and an outsider. I deeply regretted that vote. I'm moving to Idaho, which I've also said many times and that I have ZERO intention of trying to change it.
 
I keep telling people that I'm not a liberal or progressive, but it seem you'd much rather believe the people here that misrepresent me than actually read what I say. I'm a Libertarian. I've said that 100's of times. I don't vote for Demos, except when I did vote for Carter the first time because I thought since he was an honest man because he'd been a naval officer and an outsider. I deeply regretted that vote. I'm moving to Idaho, which I've also said many times and that I have ZERO intention of trying to change it.
There you have it Carl Johnson originated from the library.
 
I keep telling people that I'm not a liberal or progressive, but it seem you'd much rather believe the people here that misrepresent me than actually read what I say. I'm a Libertarian. I've said that 100's of times. I don't vote for Demos, except when I did vote for Carter the first time because I thought since he was an honest man because he'd been a naval officer and an outsider. I deeply regretted that vote. I'm moving to Idaho, which I've also said many times and that I have ZERO intention of trying to change it.
Damn dude. Didn’t know you were moving. Good for you. Your family all moving there? Dragging the jeep along?
 
I always thought you were super liberal and you lived in your utopia...? Seriously.....was I wrong??

To many on here, if you aren't a far right bible thumping, party line republican, then you have to be a liberal. They see the world in black and white. Im not as vocal as Gary, but im sure some of my views on religion, abortion, gays, etc, would make me a liberal as well in their eyes. Which is funny, since I'm a hard core conservative according to my family
Sorry, fucked up the quote
 
Damn dude. Didn’t know you were moving. Good for you. Your family all moving there? Dragging the jeep along?
A bunch of the family and yes, the Jeep is going with us. Sirch for a thread I started here (I da ho), to see some pics of the house.
 
We're supposed to close here next Monday and then on the new place a week later. We're doing a "lease back" on the house here until the end of May. That gives us the time we need to get the dogs up to Idaho and move all of our stuff.
Nice. We just had out listing agent here yesterday. Photographer and virtual tour guy will be here Monday to do his thing and we will likely list by the end of next week. Our plan is whatever offers we get we will counter to set the closing date on June 23rd which is the day after the moving trailer is picked up and we are on the road.

agent said we should list at $649! We paid 320 when we bought it 8 years ago. And she thinks it will sell for more. Very strong sellers market right now.
 
Anyone got cliffs? Can't stand being forced to listen to someone say things on youtube.
I need words to read.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/judge-blocks-california-law-requiring-safety-features-handguns-2023-03-20/ said:
March 20 (Reuters) - A federal judge on Monday blocked California from enforcing a state law requiring new semiautomatic handguns to have certain safety features, finding it violates the right to bear arms under the Second Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.

The ruling by U.S. District Judge Cormac Carney in Santa Anna, California is the latest in a line of decisions striking down state gun laws following a U.S. Supreme Court ruling last year expanding gun rights. The judge said it would not take effect for 14 days to give the state a chance to appeal.

The office of California Attorney General Rob Bonta did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

Four individuals and the California Rifle & Pistol Association, a gun rights group, sued the state last August to challenge the Unsafe Handgun Act.

The 2001 law requires new semiautomatic handguns to have an indicator showing when there is a round in the chamber and a mechanism to prevent firing when the magazine is not fully inserted, both meant to prevent accidental discharge. It also requires that they stamp a serial number onto bullets they fire, known as microstamping.

A previous challenge to the law was rejected by the San Francisco-based 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in 2018. But the new lawsuit was filed less than six weeks after the U.S. Supreme Court ruled last June that gun control measures must be consistent with the nation's historical tradition of gun control regulation.

The plaintiffs said the law failed that test and severely restricted Californians' right to own guns, because no new guns are being manufactured that comply with the requirements. That means buyers in the state are limited to models from before 2013, when the law fully took effect, the plaintiffs said.

Carney, who was appointed by Republican former president George W. Bush, agreed, finding the plaintiffs were likely to win and granting their request for a preliminary order blocking the law.

He said the state had failed to point to any historical parallel for it and that Californians "should not be forced to settle for decade-old models of handguns."


Aaron Z
 
Thanks. Does this mean we'll be able to buy the Sig365 now? I thought that was why only cops could buy them, but then again it could be a mag cap issue.
 
Thanks. Does this mean we'll be able to buy the Sig365 now? I thought that was why only cops could buy them, but then again it could be a mag cap issue.
Not yet.....................................................

The ruling by U.S. District Judge Cormac Carney in Santa Anna, California is the latest in a line of decisions striking down state gun laws following a U.S. Supreme Court ruling last year expanding gun rights. The judge said it would not take effect for 14 days to give the state a chance to appeal.
 
Top Back Refresh