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Buying a Bender: Please recommend me what CLR for each tube die

Jorge Meza

Jorge Meza

Red Liner
Joined
Aug 12, 2020
Member Number
2698
Messages
25
Loc
South Georgia
I've decided to make a small investment on a small Fab shop for my Teenager. Already bought an ESAB 205i and planing to order a Hypertherm 85 Plasma in a couple of days.
Already have a 21" Drill Press, a Shop Compressor, and many fab tools.

My project is to provide him the tools and introduce him to the Off-Road fabricating world. Mostly Bumpers, rocker panels, roll cages and the likes for Jeeps, to start. This would not only keep him busy but could open a plethora of doors in his future. In the worst case scenario that Fabricating turns out not to be his thing, I can eventually sell the tools and recoup most of the money.

Right now I'm ready to order a Tube bending machine and Dies. I'm going with the JD2 Model 54 Bender.

So my question is: What CLR to order each of the following Tube bending dies:

1"
1.25"
1.5"
1.75"
2"

I know the book has a general rule of " Diameter x 3 = CLR desired", But this is not really true for all and every die.

So this question is for the real world Off-Road Fabricators: In your experience, what CLR's would you recommend me to buy??
 
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Not sure I've seen any tubing bender, and by that i mean a proper tubing bender not a HF style tube kinker, use a die with a CLR of less than 4.5", but many of those won't do 1" or smaller.

Rogue Fab sells 1" and smaller tubing dies with a 2.5" and 3.5" CLR.

Short answer: depends what you're building and how much tube deformation you're comfortable with. For roll cage/bumper tubing sized dies, not smaller than 4.5" CLR IMO.

Reading:

Tube Capacity Chart - Rogue Fabrication

www.roguefab.com www.roguefab.com

www.roguefab.com

Die Selection - Rogue Fabrication

Need Help Choosing Dies? This is just a sliver of the info from our TECH INDEX (LINK). Our team has the experience to get you the right dies for the correct OD (outside diameter)with your tubing...
www.roguefab.com www.roguefab.com
 
The 85 plasma is way overkill. The 45xp should be plenty. The 205 is a .25" machine. I would not worry about he CLR's as it rarely is an issue unless you have a customer that has that specific requirement. If that time comes then buy that die and charge them for it.
 
I have a rogue fab bender, and contrary to a lot of people's opinion, I like it, it does the job well and efficiently enough for my needs. Die changes suck, but other than that it's decent equipment. I run 4.5" radius on all my dies as it keeps my math simpler, keeps a tight radius on larger tubes and is a general all purpose size. That being said, the bender doesn't like anything below .120 wall. >095 gets small kinks through the bend and looks like exhaust tubing when using 4.5 inch CLR dies. If I ran 6" CLR it would probably stop doing it with more room through the bend, but I don't do a lot of work with .095 anyway.
 
thedirtman said:
The 85 plasma is way overkill. The 45xp should be plenty. The 205 is a .25" machine. I would not worry about he CLR's as it rarely is an issue unless you have a customer that has that specific requirement. If that time comes then buy that die and charge them for it.
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I know the 85 is overkill for now but It will be perfect if a CNC is needed in the future.... and if I end up selling everything the 85 will sell quick.
 
1Sinner said:
I have a rogue fab bender, and contrary to a lot of people's opinion, I like it, it does the job well and efficiently enough for my needs. Die changes suck, but other than that it's decent equipment. I run 4.5" radius on all my dies as it keeps my math simpler, keeps a tight radius on larger tubes and is a general all purpose size. That being said, the bender doesn't like anything below .120 wall. >095 gets small kinks through the bend and looks like exhaust tubing when using 4.5 inch CLR dies. If I ran 6" CLR it would probably stop doing it with more room through the bend, but I don't do a lot of work with .095 anyway.
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Rogue Fab seems an awesome source of nice benders and not so expensive. The JD2 Model 54 can be programmed to do repetitive bends at certain degrees. Thats very sweet, specially for anyone with no experience. I find it actualy very fun and enjoyable to be able to produce lets say a swing away tire carrier 10 times by only selecting the bends in the bender's memory ;)
 
Jorge Meza said:
Well I don't know but I assume .120 is the thinnest in the Jeep and off-road industry as for Bumpers, Tire carriers, Side rocker panels.

What ya think?
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that is how I made my choices
thinnest wall determines your tightest CLR.
sometimes you don't have room to make some of those long sweeping bends

....Your projects, your decision
but that is how I came to my decision
 
First of all, handing a teenager $20k in tools isn't going to teach him anything. Give him a torch and a buzz box and he will really learn how to build stuff.

And a $5k bender? :laughing: get a model 3 and maybe add air.

Start out with 1.5 and 1 3/4, that will cover 95% off offroad stuff.

To actually answer the question, I've always gotten the tightest radius of each size. I would like to eventually get a larger radius 1 3/4, but I'd probably rarely use it.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
First of all, handing a teenager $20k in tools isn't going to teach him anything. Give him a torch and a buzz box and he will really learn how to build stuff.

And a $5k bender? :laughing: get a model 3 and maybe add air.

Start out with 1.5 and 1 3/4, that will cover 95% off offroad stuff.

To actually answer the question, I've always gotten the tightest radius of each size. I would like to eventually get a larger radius 1 3/4, but I'd probably rarely use it.
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Thanks for your recommendation of starting with only 1.5 and 1.75 dies. That makes sense. And seems like the general suggestion is to get the tightest CLR.

A torch and a Buzz box?? That wouldn't put him on a competitive position. Why not provide the fastest, best quality tools? Instead of spending hour and hours cleaning pieces cut with a torch and pushing and pushing that lever on the manual bender for a single bend, he could be learning, developing his creative mind, designing and most important: Producing, Selling, Making some money. The project is to promote his abilities to make a business out of Fabricating, not just a hobby.

My son is a very talented boy. He's picked as the "student of the month" many times during the year. Every time I have to go to school for any reason, a teacher or two approach to me and tell me how proud they are about him. When the pandemic started and they were doing school at home... I bought him a guitar to keep his mind active somehow. This is the very first time he touched a guitar. I encouraged him to keep trying to play by paying him $20 for each song he learned. I provided him a list of 5 songs. It worked! At first he learned for the money. By the end of 1 month he was playing 3-4 songs. He got hooked up and now he plays guitar on a daily basis and spends hours practicing and learning more songs. Then I bought a piano. Again he'd never ever touched a piano before. Within 4-6 hours that same day he was playing a beautiful song.

I can see in his big eyes every time I'm watching a vid on youtube about fabricating a bumper... or TIG Welding something. He's always asking how's and Why's with the best attitude.

Instead of me providing him money or buying him what he needs/wants... I want him to realize he can make his own money by learning to fabricate and producing then selling. I know this is a loooong way on the learning curve but I can put my hands on fire for him ;)
 
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By all means throw money at him, but there's something to be said with learning how to get by with what you got, instead of just buying all the fanciest and best tools before you (he) knows how to use them.
 
Learn from to bottom up.

You really think he's going to be selling stuff right off the bat?

You handing him $20k+ in tools isn't going to teach him he can make money on his own, it's teaching him he can make money when his dad gives him everything he needs. Just not how business work.

I have bought all my own tools, imo working for years with a manual bender, shitty grinder, shitty welder, ect makes you appreciate that bad ass air/hydro bender, or plasma cutter. Makes you want to work harder to save for the next thing. Having everything he ever could need, could make him have no motivation to work. Although every kid is different, my experience with dads handing their kid a bunch of stuff like that never ended up well.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
Learn from to bottom up.

You really think he's going to be selling stuff right off the bat?
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YES!... definitely he will be selling stuff right away!! That's the point. I promise you! My project is to help him build lets say a series of 10 Jeep rear tire carriers and advertise on social media and sit and watch what happens. I'm very confident that will be only the beginning.
YotaAtieToo said:
You handing him $20k+ in tools isn't going to teach him he can make money on his own, it's teaching him he can make money when his dad gives him everything he needs. Just not how business work.
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I think thats how it used to be in the past generations but now its different. Today the market is so competitive. You either keep up with production times or go home. Think about this: With a Plasma cutter and an automatic bender you could be fabricating in no time. I guesstimate to finish 10 Jeep swing out rear tire carriers would take you 10 days. With a Torch and a manual bender and cheap tools you are set back 3, 4 times that time and effort.
YotaAtieToo said:
I have bought all my own tools, imo working for years with a manual bender, shitty grinder, shitty welder, ect makes you appreciate that bad ass air/hydro bender, or plasma cutter. Makes you want to work harder to save for the next thing.
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And I respect that my friend. That's how things were in our generation. Just let me put it like this: look at solid companies today... Amazon, Grainger, Alibaba, FB, etc. Those entrepreneurs didn't waited to learn the old school, spending years and years "learning" or working with cheap tools until making enough money to afford good tools. The difference between them and you and me is: they got financial support in order to get the best tools and resources that catapulted them on the top in no time. Otherwise they wouldn't be able to build those empires. They went to banks institutions, negotiated tax exemptions with governments, very low interest loans, etc. to immediately get the best assets needed to succeed. What I'm doing is providing the best tools without him going to the bank for a loan. I'm the bank ;)

YotaAtieToo said:
Having everything he ever could need, could make him have no motivation to work. Although every kid is different, my experience with dads handing their kid a bunch of stuff like that never ended up well.
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That's true and I completely agree. And it's not like I'm buying stuff, dropping on his feet and walking away. I'll be couching him. This is my project: to introduce him into metal fabricating. Or should I say "into doing business"? I see a lot of potential. Trust me when I say he deserves the credit. I wouldn't even think about doing something like this with any of my two girls.


Well Thanks for the input guys. I really appreciate your tech suggestions and please keep them coming.
 
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Jorge Meza said:
And I respect that my friend. That's how things were in our generation. Just let me put it like this: look at solid companies today... Amazon, Grainger, Alibaba, FB, etc. Those entrepreneurs didn't waited to learn the old school, spending years and years "learning" or working with cheap tools until making enough money to afford good tools. The difference between them and you and me is: they got financial support in order to get the best tools and resources that catapulted them on the top in no time. Otherwise they wouldn't be able to build those empires. They went to banks institutions, negotiated tax exemptions with governments, very low interest loans, etc. to immediately get the best assets needed to succeed. What I'm doing is providing the best tools without him going to the bank for a loan. I'm the bank ;)
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Yes they did dipshit. Facebook started when zukerberg stole the idea.

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Props to you for trying to get you son into the shop.

Lol @ the teenage kid making high quality jeep parts right out of the gate. Good tools are just a crutch. The super high quality guys I know take junk and build masterpieces.

Personally I would give him the bare minimum and make him earn the cash to buy more. You learn way more by having to think outside the box than be given the easy way out.

Also I would save some money on the tube bender and buy a small cnc plasma system first. A cnc and a apron brake will give him the ability make way more money than a tube bender ever will. My little brother sells over 150k a year in cnc plasma cut trinkets. He does good for himself for a nights and weekend deal.

If you ever need to sell any of the tools because of lost interest shoot me a pm, I always in the market for used tools.
 
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ThePanzerFuhrer said:
Lol @ the teenage kid making high quality keep parts right out of the gate. Good tools are just a crutch. The super high quality guys I know take junk and build masterpieces.

Personally I would give him the bare minimum and make him earn the cash to buy more. You learn way more by having to think outside the box than be given the easy way out.

Also I would save some money on the tube bender and buy a small cnc plasma system first. A cnc and a apron brake will give him the ability make way more money than a tube bender ever will. My little brother sells over 150k a year in cnc plasma cut trinkets. He does good for himself for a nights and weekend deal.

If you can ever need to sell any of the tools because of lost interest shoot me a pm, I always in the market for used tools.
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Awesome suggestion on the CNC system. I really appreciate your input Man. I've been thinking about it but since I'm ZERO familiar with a CNC system, I have no clue. I've been reading about it and researching.. bt seems like there are a plethora of capabilites, styles, Qualities, Software, compatibilities... Pppff... All I know is you could make good money. I will consider seriously a CNC system Thanks again.
 
Also please teach him the proper use of Ppe and the fire extinguisher. Be a stickler for ear plugs!!!!!!!!!, young guys think they are indestructible. This cannot be stressed enough. Once you lose your hearing it doesn’t come back.

When he gets welders flash for the first time, from a reflection cut a potato in half and have him put it on his eyes. It’s one of the only things I found to sooth the 24hours of sand in your eyes.
 
ThePanzerFuhrer said:
Also please teach him the proper use of Ppe and the fire extinguisher. Be a stickler for ear plugs!!!!!!!!!, young guys think they are indestructible. This cannot be stressed enough. Once you lose your hearing it doesn’t come back.

When he gets welders flash for the first time, from a reflection cut a potato in half and have him put it on his eyes. It’s one of the only things I found to sooth the 24hours of sand in your eyes.
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Yes defnitely. I'm very hard on him regarding PPE. Even when cutting grass with streamer he knows its prohibited to do so without gloves, goggles and pants. Thanks.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
Learn from to bottom up.

You really think he's going to be selling stuff right off the bat?

You handing him $20k+ in tools isn't going to teach him he can make money on his own, it's teaching him he can make money when his dad gives him everything he needs. Just not how business work.

I have bought all my own tools, imo working for years with a manual bender, shitty grinder, shitty welder, ect makes you appreciate that bad ass air/hydro bender, or plasma cutter. Makes you want to work harder to save for the next thing. Having everything he ever could need, could make him have no motivation to work. Although every kid is different, my experience with dads handing their kid a bunch of stuff like that never ended up well.
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going to have to agree with this
Mr. OP
I have a 12y/o daughter that does all those things you listed , including TIG welding.
I don't have to pay her
she got one B this year, the rest were A's
I dont have to pay her
when she makes money, she actually puts money back into the shop account without being asked. The kid knows that the power meter spins out there

Not saying that your kid is not a good kid.
Bottom up, that way when you get it you want to keep it, and not have it expected to just be there


and FYI, I just have the basic bender too, you can build racecars with it and it wont slow you down one bit, pull the lever
 
I have a JD2 Model 32 full hydro. 2" die 6.5 clr. 1.75 and 1.5 are 5.5 clr. 1" is 3" clr.

As others have said, the smallest clr is generally best unless you're doing thin wall stuff. But my 1" die will bend 16ga tube just fine and I do a bunch of it. I tried some 16g stainless on the 1.5 and it wrinkled immediately.

I might recommend a 1 5/8 die since a lot of drag guys like that. Also consider a 1 1/4" pipe die (1.66 od) since that's common for handrail and finally a 2" square tube die is something most people don't seem to have but can be versatile. (I personally have never felt the need for 1 1/4 tube die.)

___

I started in my garage with a JD2 Model 3 hand pull....I bent a test 180 and decided I'd never make a dime hand pulling a bend. I went air over hydro (shop built) soon after and bent a ton with it.

I started and grew on making bumpers. We still make them but now I have 5 guys and a really big shop. (Filled mainly old and beat up stuff.)

Instagram is @rlcweldfab
 
jamscal said:
I have a JD2 Model 32 full hydro. 2" die 6.5 clr. 1.75 and 1.5 are 5.5 clr. 1" is 3" clr.

As others have said, the smallest clr is generally best unless you're doing thin wall stuff. But my 1" die will bend 16ga tube just fine and I do a bunch of it. I tried some 16g stainless on the 1.5 and it wrinkled immediately.

I might recommend a 1 5/8 die since a lot of drag guys like that. Also consider a 1 1/4" pipe die (1.66 od) since that's common for handrail and finally a 2" square tube die is something most people don't seem to have but can be versatile. (I personally have never felt the need for 1 1/4 tube die.)
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Noted. Thanks!!


jamscal said:
I started in my garage with a JD2 Model 3 hand pull....I bent a test 180 and decided I'd never make a dime hand pulling a bend. I went air over hydro (shop built) soon after and bent a ton with it.
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Thats what I'm talking about.

jamscal said:
I started and grew on making bumpers. We still make them but now I have 5 guys and a really big shop. (Filled mainly old and beat up stuff.)
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Exactly what I think: Bumpers, Tire carriers are so simple to build and a great starting point that will definitely make this project grow.

jamscal said:
Instagram is @rlcweldfab
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Kuddos for you James for such an objective perspective and technical advice. It gives me confidence ;) I'll start following your instagram.
 
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