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Bump Steer, best fix?

I might still have the track bar bracket from the Rough Country lift kid I bought. I THINK it is a 1" drop bracket and I'm not using it anymore. I don't know where you're at, but if it helps I might be willing to mail it up your way for a price.
 
PS line should be pretty easy to move considering everything else.

The WJ knuckles fit the stock axle you have, no need to change everything. Just the outers.

Pretty sure they sell straight pitman arms as well.
 
PS line should be pretty easy to move considering everything else.

The WJ knuckles fit the stock axle you have, no need to change everything. Just the outers.

Pretty sure they sell straight pitman arms as well.
Correct.

Dragline completely independent from the tie rod helps tremendously on the dead center spot, improved drag link angle.

You need to move your track bar anyway, no loss at doing both at same time.

Brake is a nice bonus.
 
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I might still have the track bar bracket from the Rough Country lift kid I bought. I THINK it is a 1" drop bracket and I'm not using it anymore. I don't know where you're at, but if it helps I might be willing to mail it up your way for a price.
Really appreciate the offer. I think at this point, I'm going to see if I can't just modify a stock pitman arm to be the same length with 1" drop instead of 2.

PS line should be pretty easy to move considering everything else.

The WJ knuckles fit the stock axle you have, no need to change everything. Just the outers.

Pretty sure they sell straight pitman arms as well.

They do sell straight pitman arms, I think I need 1" DPA isntead of the stock 2".

Correct.

Dragline completely independent from the tie rod helps tremendously on the dead center spot, improved drag link angle.

You need to move your track bar anyway, no loss at doing both at same time.

Brake is a nice bonus.

Why move the track bar?


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This is what I am thinking.

Take stock pitman arm, cut it before the two bends like so:



Stock DPA with cut.PNG

Then I can either modify the piece I have cut out or I can use some 3/4" steel to make a new center piece so that the drop is only 1":

1inch DPA.PNG

Is this a stupid idea? I'm think I can plate the outside if need be to strengthen the pitman arm.

Or, I can cut out the the splined donut out of a stock arm, bend some 3/4" steel and weld the donut into the arm like the guy in this thread
 
Pitman arms are forged. I was having the drag link rod end bind at the pitman before the suspension maxed out on rebound. I heated the pitman until it was red, then twisted the end until the rod end was even at ride height. Wrapped it in a welding blanket overnight. No more binding. I don't know if they could be bent flatter but I would not be comfortable with cutting and welding.
 
I thought the TJ arm was a 1" drop? That's what I put on my XJ to raise up the drag link.

As far as I understand, the XJ drop is 3", the tj drop is 2" and I believe that the WJ is supposed to be 1-1.5". Honestly, there is a bunch of info out there but some of it is conflicting.

Here's a good example of what I am talking about:

In this thread, they show some pictures of a WJ pitman arm installed on a TJ.

In that thread, there is a link to this thread where the OP dave claims the two pitman arms are flipped. He posts a picture but to me it seems like he just mirror imaged a picture of a TJ pitman arm.



So what I think I have come to the conclusion of:

A TJ pitman arm has a 2" drop.
A WJ pitman arm has 1-1.5" drop and is one inch longer than the TJ arm. It also has different clocking but the master keys can be cut and filed down to normal teeth.

Is 1" of extra length on the pitman consequential? I know that I will reach steering lock faster than the stock length pitman arm. I'm more worried about it being an issue with the drag link being at a different angle.
 
Meh, I vote don't cut and weld the pitman arm. It isn't worth the liability alone if you ever sell it or get into an accident.

I bought a long armed XJ once from a friend. Looked sharp. Wheeled it the first time, did ok. Went to drive home... not ok. Doing 65 mph down a 7% grade between Payson and Phoenix I go to steer around the corner, so I don't go off the cliff. My steering input became a mere suggestion... lots of fun stopping and pulling over without going off the side of Mount Ord while a Peterbuilt gets bigger and bigger in the rear view. I think I inhaled the seat through my ass that day.

I get stopped and get out to see wtf is going on. Pitman cracked at a very pretty weld and bent/deflected to the side. Turns out, the previous owner's certified ASE mechanic, "certified welder", and certified dick puller cut and welded the pitman arm instead of spending another 200-300+ for the drop pitman arm that came with the RE long arm lift kit he put on the Jeep for the previous owner. If I felt like being a dick, I would have sued him into bankruptcy. Sometimes, I wish I had. No telling what other dumb chit he did to paying customers vehicles after seeing some of the dumb chit he did to that XJ.
 
If you want a bolt-on fix, the Skyjacker adjustable track bar relocates the axle end to the lower mount for the steering stabilizer above the axle.

 
Meh, I vote don't cut and weld the pitman arm. It isn't worth the liability alone if you ever sell it or get into an accident.

I bought a long armed XJ once from a friend. Looked sharp. Wheeled it the first time, did ok. Went to drive home... not ok. Doing 65 mph down a 7% grade between Payson and Phoenix I go to steer around the corner, so I don't go off the cliff. My steering input became a mere suggestion... lots of fun stopping and pulling over without going off the side of Mount Ord while a Peterbuilt gets bigger and bigger in the rear view. I think I inhaled the seat through my ass that day.

I get stopped and get out to see wtf is going on. Pitman cracked at a very pretty weld and bent/deflected to the side. Turns out, the previous owner's certified ASE mechanic, "certified welder", and certified dick puller cut and welded the pitman arm instead of spending another 200-300+ for the drop pitman arm that came with the RE long arm lift kit he put on the Jeep for the previous owner. If I felt like being a dick, I would have sued him into bankruptcy. Sometimes, I wish I had. No telling what other dumb chit he did to paying customers vehicles after seeing some of the dumb chit he did to that XJ.
There's no way you broke a properly welded pitman arm with street driving.

People weld steering components all the time and they don't break because they're done right.
 
Installed a WJ pitman arm this weekend. I could not find very much info on the actual drop of the WJ pitman arm. Some people had posted comparison pictures years ago and the links no longer work.

Turns out, it is the same exact drop as the TJ pitman arm, just 1" longer. By my calculations, this gives ~0.25" less drop when installed.

Therefore, I think I'm back to looking into custom arm unless I can find one around 6" long between the two center points with 1" total drop.
 

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Did change reduce bump steer?

I thought the ROT was pitman length should be 90% of knuckle pivot ℄ to DL ℄.

These guys may have steel flat arms, what spline/key do you need?

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I'd say it has some but minimal change which is why I'm back to looking at custom arm.

You're probably correct as far as pitman arm length goes, I have not read anything yet that explains what it needs to be. For the stock TJ arm, it is 5.5 inches. With the WJ arm at 6.5, there is 0 noticeable difference in the steering.

As someone who knows just enough to be dangerous, I designed the new pitman arm dimensions keeping the TRE in direct relationship with the stock hole just in a higher mounting position. Whether or not that is correct, I have no clue. That said, the difference is minimal.

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I think with the link you shared, a 6" bendable arm could work great. Put two bends at 12-13% and call it a day.

As for spline count, i believe it to be 36 (7 splines between each master key, 4 master keys). Master keys aren't an issue as I cut them out of the WJ arm anyways as the clocking was different.
 
You're probably correct as far as pitman arm length goes, I have not read anything yet that explains what it needs to be. For the stock TJ arm, it is 5.5 inches. With the WJ arm at 6.5, there is 0 noticeable difference in the steering.

Based on personal experience, having too short a pitman arm in relation to the knuckles, it will prevent full lock to lock steering. I would suspect if you went longer pitman arm than stock while using stock knuckles you would just get marginally quicker turning.
 
I still think you arw going in the wrong direction. You want to lesson (flatten) the angles of the drag link and track bar, not increase the angle of the drag link to match the track bar. The more angle on the drag link, the less rebound you can get, steering has to work harder, joints wear faster, steering gets more sensitive, etc.

When I did my SAS, I got the steering built and installed and realized the angles were all wrong. I modified the axle and frame track bar mounts to match the drag link angle, which was flatter.
 
Based on personal experience, having too short a pitman arm in relation to the knuckles, it will prevent full lock to lock steering. I would suspect if you went longer pitman arm than stock while using stock knuckles you would just get marginally quicker turning.
That's what I was thinking as well.

I still think you arw going in the wrong direction. You want to lesson (flatten) the angles of the drag link and track bar, not increase the angle of the drag link to match the track bar. The more angle on the drag link, the less rebound you can get, steering has to work harder, joints wear faster, steering gets more sensitive, etc.

When I did my SAS, I got the steering built and installed and realized the angles were all wrong. I modified the axle and frame track bar mounts to match the drag link angle, which was flatter.

I understand that. I know the best fix in this situation is to cut out the track bar bracket and reweld in a new one that is 1" longer.

That said, I don't know how nor have the tools to weld and therefore would need to pay someone to do it. Figuring I already paid for the barnes bracket to be welded in, my thought process is the pitman arm is the easiest and cheapest solution.

Is an increase of 2-3 degrees more than stock consequential in this case?




I am realizing that my dumbass has failed to take into account the different lengths of the drag link and the track bar. I have been thinking that if I made the end points on the drag link and the track bar at the same height, it would make the two parallel. In reality, because they are different lengths, that is not the case.

Thanks to fusion 360, I can easily calculate all of this. I just measured the draglink at 37" and the track bar at 32.5". From these measurements, I need a 2.4 increase on the pitman arm height or a 2.1" decrease on TB mounting height.

I think because of this, a track bar bracket extension may be the way forward.
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yes that is correct and what I tried to show in the ms paint drawings. I did the same on mine as it made it all clearer on where it needed to go.
 
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