Bump Steer, best fix?

[Suede]

My stock frame side TB bracket was cracked in two spots and pulling away from the frame on the rear side of the mount. For a few reasons, I opted to have it cut out and a Barnes double shear bracket welded in. I have come to learn that the Barnes bracket is not the same depth as the stock bracket was.

Therefore, I am looking for advice on the best method to fix my misalignment.

Three options I am thinking of:

Move axle side bracket up about two inches, not exactly sure how I will accomplish this though. Space is tight around the springs.

Chop up a pitman arm and weld it straight. Will not gain as much height as is necessary due to power steering lines above the pitman arm.

Weld and brace an extension onto the Barnes bracket in order to lower the mounting point back to its original location.


Thoughts?

(JKS sway bar links show up tomorrow)

 

[CDA 455 II]

Make all your steering set/linkage all as parallel as possible with each other.

On my '94 Bronco I flipped the TREs to move it 3.5" higher/closer to the pitman arm.

 

[Suede]

Make all your steering set/linkage all as parallel as possible with each other.

I'm trying to decide the best plan of action to do this.

 

[CDA 455 II]

I'm trying to decide the best plan of action to do this.

Have you considered high steering arms on your knuckles?

 

[Suede]

On my '94 Bronco I flipped the TREs to move it 3.5" higher/closer to the pitman arm.

Aren't the holes for the TRE tapered? Would that not be an issue. Also, I think that would move me further from parallel as the track bar end needs to move up (or down frame side). The tie rod would need to move further down to be level with the axle side TB mount.

Have you considered high steering arms on your knuckles?

I have seen that mentioned. I would like to try and stick with the stock steering set-up if possible. All my steering linkages are fairly new.

 

[JohnnyJ]

Chop up a pitman arm and weld it straight. Will not gain as much height as is necessary due to power steering lines above the pitman arm

WFO sells flat pitman arms on drilled and undrilled configs.

For steering lines, and you adapt to AN line and reroute?

 

[CDA 455 II]

Aren't the holes for the TRE tapered? Would that not be an issue. Also, I think that would move me further from parallel as the track bar end needs to move up (or down frame side). The tie rod would need to move further down to be level with the axle side TB mount.

Correct; I just re-tapered it.

Your pitman arm/tie rod point is the level where, ideally, everything else should be.
Everything is below your pitman arm tie rod point; by a lot.

I have seen that mentioned. I would like to try and stick with the stock steering set-up if possible. All my steering linkages are fairly new.

I hear you.

 

[CDA 455 II]

Suede
What's your knuckle arms look like?
Are your TREs on top or the bottom of said arms?
If they're mounted on the bottom; does it look like you can flip the TREs on it?

BTW; I would shitcan the steering dampener.

Just looking at your pic; it looks like the lower mount for said steering dampener might be used as a lower drag link mount, it would definitely raise/elevate it.
Again; I'm only going by your pic (and throwing ideas out there to ponder) :

 

[BDK]

The steering and track bar don't appear to be more than 1* different. Shouldn't be getting much bump steer. If there is a way to lesson the angle of both the drag link and track bar that would really help. Flatter is better.


On my Ford, I went tie rod over, then lowered the frame mount and raised the axle mount on the track bar so they were within a degree of each other. No bump steer.

 

[Weasel]

Suede
What's your knuckle arms look like?
Are your TREs on top or the bottom of said arms?
If they're mounted on the bottom; does it look like you can flip the TREs on it?

BTW; I would shitcan the steering dampener.

Just looking at your pic; it looks like the lower mount for said steering dampener might be used as a lower drag link mount, it would definitely raise/elevate it.
Again; I'm only going by your pic (and throwing ideas out there to ponder) :

your lines are off, should be through the ball of the TRE no?

 

[Suede]

Suede
What's your knuckle arms look like?
Are your TREs on top or the bottom of said arms?
If they're mounted on the bottom; does it look like you can flip the TREs on it?

BTW; I would shitcan the steering dampener.

Just looking at your pic; it looks like the lower mount for said steering dampener might be used as a lower drag link mount, it would definitely raise/elevate it.
Again; I'm only going by your pic (and throwing ideas out there to ponder.

The knuckles are stock TJ knuckles, with TRE mounted from the bottom. I could possibly
flip them but that would probably increase the degree the track bar and drag link are out of alignment.

I could possibly move the track bar up, however that bracket is angled towards the drag link for the steering dampener.

The steering and track bar don't appear to be more than 1* different. Shouldn't be getting much bump steer. If there is a way to lesson the angle of both the drag link and track bar that would really help. Flatter is better.


On my Ford, I went tie rod over, then lowered the frame mount and raised the axle mount on the track bar so they were within a degree of each other. No bump steer.

I haven’t done the math on the angle but the two definitely cross planes close to the pitman arm.

I’m wondering if I could weld an extension on the bottom of the frame side bracket and then box in the back side like I have drawn in this picture. I could lower it by the same amount of difference and make the two parallel again

 

[Suede]

your lines are off, should be through the ball of the TRE no?

I just came to that realization in my last reply.

Here's a new drawing with lines redrawn. It also shows the knucle better.

 

[Chief Rocka]

Can you confirm 2 and measure 2 heights? What # do you get when subtracting lower from upper for both bars?

Heights:
Pitman 22.25"
Frame TB 23.5"
Axle TB ?
Axle DL ?

pic source:

 

[Weasel]

I just came to that realization in my last reply.

Here's a new drawing with lines redrawn. It also shows the knucle better.

blue line should be correct for the drag link. So your gonna need to drop the track bar frame side ~1". And that's hoping it won't hit the diff. Or flaten the pitman arm.

 

[Suede]

Can you confirm 2 and measure 2 heights? What # do you get when subtracting lower from upper for both bars?

Heights:
Pitman 22.25"
Frame TB 23.5"
Axle TB ?
Axle DL ?

pic source:

Just pulled her up onto concrete for a better measurement than the uneven gravel.

I measured middle of track
Bar bolts and from bottom of knuckle and bottom of pitman arm on the drag link.

Track Bar axle - 15”. Track bar frame - 24”
Drag link axle - 15.5”. Drag link pitman - 23.5.

blue line should be correct for the drag link. So your gonna need to drop the track bar frame side ~1". And that's hoping it won't hit the diff. Or flaten the pitman arm.

From my measurements, it looks like a 1” drop on the TB bracket should make the two parallel.


Is it a bad idea to weld an extension with 1/4” plate to the current bracket and box in the back side for some added strength? Shouldn’t be any deeper than the single shear stock mount. I may be able get an inch on the pitman arm, may need to move the power steering hose though.

 

[BDK]

I originally had the frame drag link mount way too high. The angles were way off, and the mount should have been 1/4" forward to have it sit with no pressure on the lower bushing. I added onto it like you are describing, overlapped flat plate on the old bracket, and used the original mounting hole for a plug weld and went all the way to the frame with the new metal. Now, its two pieces of 1/4" flat plate basically welded together and to the frame. I also added a piece of thick wall tube from a support piece to the engine cross member. I've seen them fail like yours did, and I didn't want that to happen.

This is an older picture that shows the angles, but I'll run out and take a couple more of the mounts.

 

[bdkw1]

So your track bar frame mount needs to go down an inch.

How long is each one?

 

[bdkw1]

Make all your steering set/linkage all as parallel as possible with each other.

On my '94 Bronco I flipped the TREs to move it 3.5" higher/closer to the pitman arm.

So you lost uptravel for a little extra ground clearance on the tie rods?

 

[BDK]

Track bar and drag link are within an inch of the same length, and within 1* angle. I built the axle mount up off the original mount. Three or four gussets on the back side. I could have come straight down with the frame mount to gain another inch of track bar length, but it seems to work like it is so it's staying.

Please ignore the booger welds, It was ten years ago and I was learning as I went along. It must be solid, because it's still there.

 

[CDA 455 II]

So you lost uptravel for a little extra ground clearance on the tie rods?

The tie rod flip accomplished two things:
1) Proper alignment with the axle
2) Extra ground clearance.

Up-travel, AFAIK, hasn't been affected while driving so far that I've noticed.

 

[bdkw1]

The tie rod flip accomplished two things:
1) Proper alignment with the axle
2) Extra ground clearance.

Up-travel, AFAIK, hasn't been affected while driving so far that I've noticed.

1, there beams, the angles matching has zero effect on anything. Beam pivot hieght and pitman arm pivot hieght do.

2, spent a lot of miles in Broncos with bottom mounted arms. Never hit one on a rock.

3, the p side will bump against the beam against the frame. The D side will with a little cross member trimming.

4, if you really wanted to solve its steering issues a single swing would have made a much bigger difference.

 

[CDA 455 II]

1, there beams, the angles matching has zero effect on anything. Beam pivot hieght and pitman arm pivot hieght do.

2, spent a lot of miles in Broncos with bottom mounted arms. Never hit one on a rock.

3, the p side will bump against the beam against the frame. The D side will with a little cross member trimming.

4, if you really wanted to solve its steering issues a single swing would have made a much bigger difference.

Shit, I'll go one big step further;
Shitcan the whole TTB for a '05+ F-350/450/550 front axle.

I can't stand the TTB; but an SAS is still 3 years away.

 

[Suede]

So your track bar frame mount needs to go down an inch.

How long is each one?

How long is each what, the track bar and the drag link? I’d need to measure that tomorrow. Stock length for the drag link, not too sure on the TB

Track bar and drag link are within an inch of the same length, and within 1* angle. I built the axle mount up off the original mount. Three or four gussets on the back side. I could have come straight down with the frame mount to gain another inch of track bar length, but it seems to work like it is so it's staying.

Please ignore the booger welds, It was ten years ago and I was learning as I went along. It must be solid, because it's still there.

Definitely looks like the best/easiest way to go. I’m gonna call up Barnes in the morning and see if they can fab up a solution; I can’t be the first dumbass to call them with this problem.

 

[bdkw1]

How long is each what, the track bar and the drag link? I’d need to measure that tomorrow. Stock length for the drag link, not too sure on the TB

Yes, they need to the same length or close.

 

[bdkw1]

Shit, I'll go one big step further;
Shitcan the whole TTB for a '05+ F-350/450/550 front axle.

I can't stand the TTB; but an SAS is still 3 years away.

You shut your dirty whore mouth. Whoop scissors are the finest off road suspension ever invented.

 

[Suede]

Yes, they need to the same length or close.

I’d have to measure but that should be close to stock relationship. Drag link is extended slightly with the lift and so is the track bar.

 

[TrailTamer]

I’m surprised nobody suggested the WJ knuckle swap.

It’s what I’ll do before messing with the track bar any further.

 

[Weasel]

Is it a bad idea to weld an extension with 1/4” plate to the current bracket and box in the back side for some added strength? Shouldn’t be any deeper than the single shear stock mount. I may be able get an inch on the pitman arm, may need to move the power steering hose though.

No that would be fine, you could use a section of square or rectangular tube and cut one side out for the joint. Some brackets have enough room to just move the hole down.

And get rid of the horrible truss, rock catcher there.

I’m surprised nobody suggested the WJ knuckle swap.

It’s what I’ll do before messing with the track bar any further.

Not sure how raising the knuckle ends would help here, not a bad upgrade.

 

[Chief Rocka]

KIS if nothing crashes and raise pitman DL location by 1"?
options:
-heat and press existing arm?
-pitman with 1" less drop?
-flip pitman DL location? Would need to drill and sleeve if it has enough material?

 

[Suede]

No that would be fine, you could use a section of square or rectangular tube and cut one side out for the joint. Some brackets have enough room to just move the hole down.

And get rid of the horrible truss, rock catcher there.



Not sure how raising the knuckle ends would help here, not a bad upgrade.

Unfortunately, I think an extension to the current bracket is necessary for that. I just reached out to Barnes, we'll see what they have to say.

If by truss, you mean the "diff plate", yeah, it probably needs to come off. I have caught it on some rocks in the past which is why its bent. It was installed by the P.O. and I've been too lazy to take it off.

I’m surprised nobody suggested the WJ knuckle swap.

It’s what I’ll do before messing with the track bar any further.

Everything I read on this is that its not really worth the time nor the money for extra braking power. On top of that, you still have to deal with bump steer as the spring perches on the WJ are centered on the axle tube as opposed to the TJ where they sit forward. This makes relocation of the TB a little difficult. I do think JKS makes a relocation bracket though.

KIS if nothing crashes and raise pitman DL location by 1"?
options:
-heat and press existing arm?
-pitman with 1" less drop?
-flip pitman DL location? Would need to drill and sleeve if it has enough material?

Depending on what Barnes comes back with, I think the pitman arm is my next target. I could likely take the bend out of it to raise the end by 1". Just have to worry about the power steering line; may have to move it.