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Building power with the Jeep 4.0

AgitatedPancake said:
The reality is this will never be a truly profitable endeavor. I think it can potentially break even while advancing 4.0s to the next level, but it won't be some market miracle as much as we wish there was that kind of interest.
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I think you’ll have a potential if this can do at least 400hp naturally aspirated.

Makes class 4600 races more exciting.
 
What is old is new agian.

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Had to do a double take and come search the site. Forgot you were trying this on the 4.0. This dudes getting it done on the Ferd 300.

www.motortrend.com

Freaky Ford 300 Inline-Six Topped With GM LS head

Hot-rodding is about innovation and this LS-headed Ford straight-six is a prime example. Check out the start of the build and some of the early challenges.
www.motortrend.com www.motortrend.com
 
Hell yeah, those videos (4 parts so far) are awesome discussions with Rick Mudge who was on the engine design team during the lifetime of the 4.0, and is still sharp as a tack. I'm in frequent contactor with the presenter, and gave him my permission to use the CAD pic. I don't think I'll be going for 10k RPMs, but 7-8k shouldn't be off the table hehe.

JR4X, yeha people have done a handful of sliced up heads for the Ford I6's over the years, but the 4.0 just never got the same treatment unfortunately. Those builds definitely gave me a lot of confidence when I was shaping things up for this build hehe.

Things are actually getting rolling on this build again, still going for the nice methodical pace, but should have some visible stuff soon. Have enough stainless coming to build from the head to turbo including individual EGTs and two O2 bungs. I should be able to get the rods and pistons on order in the next month or so at which point I can drop the block and rotating assembly off at the machine shop to line bore the mains with the new main caps from the 4.2 donor, final bore the cylinders and check the deck for flatness, (cut as needed), and balance the rotating assembly. But before the block gets machined I need to use it to get the head welded up, so that'll be coming soon.
 
From listening to those, it seems like trying to push a lot of power out of one is a bad idea. The weight/friction/cost cutting programs seriously cut into the durability factor.
 
bdkw1 said:
From listening to those, it seems like trying to push a lot of power out of one is a bad idea. The weight/friction/cost cutting programs seriously cut into the durability factor.
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The focus of those videos is definitely intentionally on the problem areas, more just for the sake of learning directly from the source versus the speculation the communities have had over the decades. But the same guy in this podcast helped get one spinning 8k in a dragster a few decades back. The primary issue in the block is the wide spacing between cam journals, and whether or not that effects the notorious sub-6k harmonics, but from what I've gathered if you blast right past the harmonic zone that any motor has they can live happily. It's the time spent lingering there that destroys things.

Then distributor gear wear has definitely been observed with high volume pumps and the increased strain the put on the gears, so I'll be keeping an eye on that. I'm actually tempted to run a stock pump to keep the gears alive as long as possible
 
Yeah adding a new cam sensor shouldn't be too difficult if I do end up needing to relocate, and funny you mention dry sump. I may have someone tossing around the idea of having me draw up a dry sump pan / main camp girdle with integrated external oil pump for these things haha.

As far as the cam journals, there may be a little wiggle room for more diameter. I'm not sure if that has been messed with, but the extra core diameter would be a great addition
 
Bit by bit haha. Had some import 304 stainless show up, 1.75" bends and straights for the primaries into that 6 into 1, then 3" vband, 3" from there to the turbo with a T4 flange plus some extra heavy wall for the initial dump. Also grabbed EGT sensors for each cylinder, bungs, and a couple O2 bungs to track performance during the initial build process

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Would it not make better power if you went 3-2-1 with the header similar to a tri-Y design? That collector you have is cool looking for sure but is it really an efficient design in the grand scheme of things? It also seems like a header packaging nightmare in an actual vehicle trying to get all the tubes to fit in a single area. I'm no engineer or even smart for that matter so I may be wrong in my thinking.
 
From what I've gathered overall, 3-2-1, 6-1, and the primary lengths all effect the harmonics and what frequency they help an engine (like runner length). In this application, the turbo is so close to the header that I believe there will be enough backpressure that the primary lengths and layout get a bit less important besides being smooth and high flowing. I have a pretty compact layout drawn up that I intend to copy at least to some degree, it puts the header dump location that it would still work fine if it were an NA build as well. But then routes up to a front mount turbo without too much extra effort

L83 - Head + Header 18.JPG


L83 Swap - Final 5.JPG
 
I have a set of pottenger’s rod and pistons that he sells for stroker builds that I ran for 10-12k miles and then parts out the rest due to other problems. I’d make you a deal on them if your interested. 22cc pistons, .030” if I remember right. His long scat rods, super nice parts, I just got tired of other problems and threw in a stock 4.0 until I dive in to an LS swap. I also have a set of ARP head bolts and a coupe head gaskets. One felpro and one mopar performance if I remember right. PM if you think you’re interested.
 
Thanks YJLOPES ! Looks like i'll have those rods and pistons at the end of this week hehe.

In the meantime, I got the ball rolling with Schneider Cams on the custom cam core I need for the new valve configuration. Sounds like I'm probably going to end up with 3 or 4 cam cores, but only plan to have 1 ground and finished for now. Pretty cool bonus that may come out of this - this custom project may have stoked the fire under their ass to produce some roller cams for regular 4.0s as well, which the market has been seriously needing.

Also been collecting parts needed for the stainless 6 into 1 turbo header, have just about everything I need now. Also grabbed a few o2 bungs, and everything to put EGT probes in each primary. The plan is for the header to end up pretty damn similar to what I have drawn up in SW.

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L83 Swap - Final 8.JPG
 
bdkw1 said:
Did you see the YouTube guy with the Ford 300 got it fired up?
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I did just earlier tonight! Super rad and motivating. The cams are going to have some lead time, but I want to push through the rest of the physical fabrication before the end of the year.

SLOWPOKE693 said:
Where does the left motor mount end up in your model? How do you plan on keeping it from melting with all the heat in that area?


Side track...... Why 2 injectors per cylinder? With all the high flow injectors on the market today, running 12 seems like overkill
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The motor mount is going to get relocated a bit, and then getting heavy shielding. Turbo blanket, wrapped or coated headers, then some high quality DEI shielding or similar. It still could become an issue, but it’s something I’ll be watching. My drivers side brown dog poly started splitting from heat within a couple hundred miles, so it was something I was interested in addressing even in stock form.

As far as the two injectors, that’s not set in stone yet. But the rationale is to run them in a priority config so I can run smaller oem style injectors that atomize the fuel well at low flow rates for everyday cruising, then ramp the second injector in as more flow is required. It also would let me prioritize the injector with the best shot at the back of the valve in those low demand situations. And the fact that it allows me to run readily available off the shelf quality injectors is a sweet bonus.

But if I end up keeping OBD2, it adds complication requiring a second set of injector drivers where some standalone ecus can control extra injectors natively. So we’ll see where I end up on that
 
We’ll see where I end up running it most of the time, but I’m trying to put enough decent hardware in there to handle north of 20psi
 
AgitatedPancake said:
Thanks YJLOPES ! Looks like i'll have those rods and pistons at the end of this week hehe.

In the meantime, I got the ball rolling with Schneider Cams on the custom cam core I need for the new valve configuration. Sounds like I'm probably going to end up with 3 or 4 cam cores, but only plan to have 1 ground and finished for now. Pretty cool bonus that may come out of this - this custom project may have stoked the fire under their ass to produce some roller cams for regular 4.0s as well, which the market has been seriously needing.

Also been collecting parts needed for the stainless 6 into 1 turbo header, have just about everything I need now. Also grabbed a few o2 bungs, and everything to put EGT probes in each primary. The plan is for the header to end up pretty damn similar to what I have drawn up in SW.

313863154_823156819109335_8227240784166087075_n.jpg




that 6 to 1 is freaking bad ass!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:beer:
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Sorry if this is the wrong place to ask but does Alpine Peak give an IBB discount?
 
Off the wall question.......How do you plan to weld the inboard sides of the tubes to that 6-1 collector?
 
gt1guy said:
Off the wall question.......How do you plan to weld the inboard sides of the tubes to that 6-1 collector?
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I should be able to get to 4 or 5 of them by leaving 1 or two off until the very end. The last one or two are going to be tricky. Worst case I can slice the 6th primary in half where it meets the collector so I can weld the inner half from inside the tube, then "cap" that outer section back on and complete the weld outer more accessible weld area
 
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