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Building power with the Jeep 4.0
- Thread starter AgitatedPancake
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- jeep
Weasel
Red Skull Member
yeah I screwed up on the name, he's had alot of work in with various companies.
AgitatedPancake
Frobot
Haha hell yes man. I personally believe these heads can take 4.0 builds to the next level as far as power and efficiency is concerned.Reading along. Cause Crossflow heads on old inlines
For sure, I don't know his full history, but everyone seems extremely satisfied with his recommendations. Absolutely everywhere I've researched on making the most out of these engines, he comes up. I'm going to build the short block with a 12 counterweight stroker (4.2) crank, and then choose rods and forged pistons with his consideration. But before choosing pistons, I need to see what kind of custom valve reliefs I'm going to need in them. I'm hoping for an off the shelf piston with no mods, but will have pockets added in the worst case
Weasel
Red Skull Member
he's got his own piston design, these are for stroker but yeah anyways. Not to derail all the cool content your posting.
AgitatedPancake
Frobot
Hell yeah. With these heads rearranging the valves on 3 cylinders and capable of more valve lift than 4.0 heads I need to see if I'm going to require custom valve reliefs in the pistons. But that should be the only special consideration required compared to his standard recommendations, thankfully combustion chambers are similar in size so nothing too special required as far as compression ratio goes
JohnnyJ
Low Range Drifter
Imagine the flow you could get with DOHC conversion… 4-valves!
AgitatedPancake
Frobot
Dude if you haven't before, check out the vintage footage of Turismo Carretera racing in Argentina. They ran some seriously hard I6 based road racing and had some american I6's spinning up around 8 grand, so wild. At one point, the 4.0 made its way into the series too and they did some pretty cool development. Too bad it seems it was secretive, and most of the technical details stayed in the minds of those building and competing. They started with the regular cast iron heads, but somewhere along the lines made a DOHC head for them. Absolutely insane.
MigGunslinger
Red Skull Member
It might get spicy if electromagnetic valves ever became ubiquitous and reliable, you might be able to get rid of camshafts on old engines entirely. There is some unpronounceable swedish supercar using them I think?
AgitatedPancake
Frobot
Koenigsegg with their freevalve tech, now that is seriously a whole new level of innovation. Infinitely adjustable valve timing and duration on the fly, depending on what the engine is asking for. Can't wait to see that tech start trickling down
gt1guy
Apparently a racist
Pneumatic valve springs are good to 20k rpm
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Byro
Lurkin’
I remember thinking Hondas VTEC system was a engineering marvel. That is next level. I wonder what the gain from the loss of all the rotating mass of the cam and drag from lifters/rockers would be. Definitely some cool stuff.
I bet it's fairly substantial even in an OHC/DOHC style engine.
AgitatedPancake
Frobot
Yeah, I think not just pneumatic springs but the hydraulic/pneumatic control of the valves is probably one of the final (or almost final) evolutions of the piston engine in my opinion, there is so much efficiency to be gained by having infinitely variable valve control depending on what's needed.
I received all the rest of the new valves and should have the missing rockers I need tomorrow. Plan to visit a local engine shop or two this week to see how big they're willing to go on valve and seat size, then visit a local EDM and waterjet place to start pricing out the slicing I'm going to have them do
I received all the rest of the new valves and should have the missing rockers I need tomorrow. Plan to visit a local engine shop or two this week to see how big they're willing to go on valve and seat size, then visit a local EDM and waterjet place to start pricing out the slicing I'm going to have them do
shaggyjim
Member
- Joined
- Jun 26, 2021
- Member Number
- 4136
- Messages
- 24
I love the idea of a cross flow head for the 4.0 and hope this works out for you. If you can keep the final product under or around 1k I would pick it up do a stroker. It sticks in mind that 15-20 year ago a place was cutting and welding full engines together. It might have been for tractor pulls, I cant remember for sure. Any updates?
AgitatedPancake
Frobot
Unfortunately there's no way the price would be anywhere close to 1k. Starting point would be a couple thousand and you would end up with the best flowing head you can put on a 4.0. Porting stock castings with oversized valves is plenty for most people that just want better than stock and aren't looking for the ultimate.
I got a solid engine core the other day, new valve covers to splice for the new head, and have gathered the rest of the valvetrain except the valve springs. Time to start sourcing parts for the stroker soon
Awesome tech and thank you for sharing. Following. I talked to a place many years back about making a cross flow head for a 4.0. I can’t remember the name to google copy n paste. They made heads from a billet chunk of aluminum. It was way to cost prohibitive at the time.
I’m an interested potential customer if you are making them to sell. I want an N/A cross flow 4.7 stroker to stick in my rear steer buggy. I have a Golen 4.7 with the Uber rare Hesco aluminum head, roller rockers and all the goodies. It runs good, killer power/torque on the bottom but it falls off power wise between 4 and 5 thousand rpm and that’s the point where the exhaust gets really hot. I know it’s the restrictive small exhaust ports being the performance ceiling.
I’m an interested potential customer if you are making them to sell. I want an N/A cross flow 4.7 stroker to stick in my rear steer buggy. I have a Golen 4.7 with the Uber rare Hesco aluminum head, roller rockers and all the goodies. It runs good, killer power/torque on the bottom but it falls off power wise between 4 and 5 thousand rpm and that’s the point where the exhaust gets really hot. I know it’s the restrictive small exhaust ports being the performance ceiling.
AgitatedPancake
Frobot
Thanks guys, I'm definitely having fun with it.
JR4X, no problem at all man. That's sweet that you have one of those Hescos, I don't hear much about them these days. When I started down this path, I genuinely considered billet as well but prices are still very high because of how many operations are required and the sheer amount of machine time. Low volume casting seems pretty intriguing too, and that may still be on the table if I do end up looking to sell a batch that aren't cut and spliced like this. #1 is happening no matter what for myself and it's helping inform which way I would approach producing a batch, so completing this will happen before I decide.
Great to know that you are interested as a potential customer as well just to keep tabs on overall interest. Besides having superior port design and higher ratio rockers, I'm very interested in the valvetrain stability of these heads with how LS and LTs are known spin 7-8k with stock castings. It'll be interesting if this cures the top end harmonics 4.0's are known for.
JR4X, no problem at all man. That's sweet that you have one of those Hescos, I don't hear much about them these days. When I started down this path, I genuinely considered billet as well but prices are still very high because of how many operations are required and the sheer amount of machine time. Low volume casting seems pretty intriguing too, and that may still be on the table if I do end up looking to sell a batch that aren't cut and spliced like this. #1 is happening no matter what for myself and it's helping inform which way I would approach producing a batch, so completing this will happen before I decide.
Great to know that you are interested as a potential customer as well just to keep tabs on overall interest. Besides having superior port design and higher ratio rockers, I'm very interested in the valvetrain stability of these heads with how LS and LTs are known spin 7-8k with stock castings. It'll be interesting if this cures the top end harmonics 4.0's are known for.
AgitatedPancake
Frobot
After quite a bit of laser scanning, I have the block, head, and every accessory except the alternator and AC pump scanned individually. I didn't expect to dive this deep into the stock details, but I couldn't resist. Having this data opens me up to the possibility of creating some 4.0 accessories not related to the head as well. Relocation brackets, billet thermostat housings, custom timing setups, improved motor mounts (but keeping them rubber, because I like that more than poly)
AgitatedPancake
Frobot
Combined the engine scan with the new head config, it's actually looking like things are going to fit besides the AC pump. I'm thinking I'm going to reconfigure the accessories to make better sense of things.
Good stuff ain't cheap, and cheap stuff ain't good. You can't buy a custom head for anything for 1k and you want this one to be in that range?
A buddy of mine back home cuts Ford SVO aluminum V8 blocks in half and makes 4cyl engines out of them for paved sprint car racing.
Btw..... This tread is
Bebop
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 26, 2020
- Member Number
- 1458
- Messages
- 4,850
AgitatedPancake super rad, love it !
YotaAtieToo
Thick skull
Scat used to do V4 small block and LS GM stuff. I think they just cut them down and machined the accessory mounts, but not sure.
Scat V4's were all custom castings. They also vibrated like a motherfucker to the point that the flywheel bolts would back out of the crank.
YotaAtieToo
Thick skull
gt1guy
Apparently a racist
Is that a head bolt hole without a place to land on the block? It looks kind of odd, could just be the angle.
AgitatedPancake
Frobot
Haha hell yeah guys. I've heard about some V8s chopped down into V4s for midget racing, such a cool idea. I think V4s could have a solid place in rock crawling, they package better than anything else with how insanely short they are. Speaking of harley engines, a V twin using LS parts would be wicked for small rigs too. And have a wild sound haha.
GT1, the head bolts bosses on the exhaust side do need some relocating work as part of the project, but it's actually left to right in the engine bay - front to rear head bolt spacing is impressively close. Here's the head shifted to the side just to show the front to rear bolt alignment overall
GT1, the head bolts bosses on the exhaust side do need some relocating work as part of the project, but it's actually left to right in the engine bay - front to rear head bolt spacing is impressively close. Here's the head shifted to the side just to show the front to rear bolt alignment overall
The Ford motors my buddy builds from SVO blocks are I4's. They tried V4s and didn't like the way they ran or delivered power, plus the added cost of machining an entire V8 in half was stupid compared to just cutting and plating one side of of a V8 block and using off the shelf heads.Haha hell yeah guys. I've heard about some V8s chopped down into V4s for midget racing, such a cool idea. I think V4s could have a solid place in rock crawling, they package better than anything else with how insanely short they are. Speaking of harley engines, a V twin using LS parts would be wicked for small rigs too. And have a wild sound haha.
I had pics on my old phone but none on the current one. I'm going to have to hit him up for more, he does some wild shit in nothing more than a home garage/machine shop.