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Breaker and Wiring for CNC plasma table

Austin

Austin

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St.Louis, MO
I picked up a new to me toy last weekend. A Langmuir XL Pro CNC table with a Hypertherm 45xp plasma cutter, an air chiller and an array of air filters.
IMG_8514.JPG


I can read the instructions and wire it as it says, but I don't get electrical/electrical electronics enough to understand its requirements.
The plasma cutter has a 10 AWG 3-wire power cord coming out the back of it with a 50 amp plug (NEMA 6-50P). The manual says I need 50 amp breaker in the panel and a 8 (or 6) AWG wire from the box to the outlet because it's right at 50' in length. I dont understand why the 50 amp breaker and 8 or 6 AWG for 50 amp when the plasma cutter's cord is rated for 30A. :confused: Does that 6' of 10 AWG not matter because it's short?


2nd electrical question .... I'm at 48' from the panel to the outlet. Thats right at the end of the 8 AWG capability according to the manual. Should I stick with the 8 or upgrade to the 6 AWG?
Screenshot 2023-08-04 at 4.11.45 PM.png
 
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They probably figure it's worse case scenario, running non stop in a production shop.

What's the duty cycle?
 
1691191286425.png

It only pulls 33 amps at 230v.

Plasma, waterjet and laser cutting systems from Hypertherm

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The NEMA 6-50 outlet is standard for most welders and plasma cutters even if they pull nowhere close to 50 amps but downgrading the wiring and breaker is iffy unless you and only you will ever plug something into it

So the answer is, 8 AWG will work for the powermax 45xp at 50'. If you wanted to plug something in that pulls a true 50 amps I would bump up the wire size.


Yes the 10 AWG cord is good at the duty cycle they advertise mostly because it is short. If, for example, you made the whole 50' wire run 10 AWG it would probably heat up too much or pull too much amperage and trip the breaker before the unit itself reached it's duty cycle.
 
There are some special rules in NEC for welders...something about being allowed to undersize wire and such.

In any case, my welder outlet is wired with 8/3 and breakered at 40 amps with a Nema 6-50R on the end. The same should work for that plasma cutter.
 
MigGunslinger said:
Yes the 10 AWG cord is good at the duty cycle they advertise mostly because it is short. If, for example, you made the whole 50' wire run 10 AWG it would probably heat up too much or pull too much amperage and trip the breaker before the unit itself reached it's duty cycle.
Click to expand...
It's also (probably) a flexible cord running in "free air" which has a different rating than a wire running in the wall as it can dissipate heat easier.
That's why you'll see 16 gauge cords advertised as handling 15 amps and 14 gauge cords advertised as handling 20 amps.

Aaron Z
 
Austin said:
I picked up a new to me toy last weekend. A Langmuir XL Pro CNC table with a Hypertherm 45xp plasma cutter, an air chiller and an array of air filters.
IMG_8514.JPG


I can read the instructions and wire it as it says, but I don't get electrical/electrical electronics enough to understand its requirements.
The plasma cutter has a 10 AWG 3-wire power cord coming out the back of it with a 50 amp plug (NEMA 6-50P). The manual says I need 50 amp breaker in the panel and a 8 (or 6) AWG wire from the box to the outlet because it's right at 50' in length. I dont understand why the 50 amp breaker and 8 or 6 AWG for 50 amp when the plasma cutter's cord is rated for 30A. :confused: Does that 6' of 10 AWG not matter because it's short?


2nd electrical question .... I'm at 48' from the panel to the outlet. Thats right at the end of the 8 AWG capability according to the manual. Should I stick with the 8 or upgrade to the 6 AWG?
Screenshot 2023-08-04 at 4.11.45 PM.png
Click to expand...
Don't over think it, if you are Installing a 50a outlet size it as such, correct for run length.

If the outlet is adjacent or within a few feet of the panel you can get more liberal.
 
SomeGuy said:
There are some special rules in NEC for welders...something about being allowed to undersize wire and such.
Click to expand...

AWS probably called up their fellow lobbing douchebags and told them to leave their shit out of it or they'd swing their dick around.
 
MigGunslinger said:
Yes the 10 AWG cord is good at the duty cycle they advertise mostly because it is short. If, for example, you made the whole 50' wire run 10 AWG it would probably heat up too much or pull too much amperage and trip the breaker before the unit itself reached it's duty cycle.
Click to expand...
Gotcha. Makes sense :beer:
 
SomeGuyFromOlympia said:
I have the 85
and now my shop is wires 3Ph, and I should have gone bigger :grinpimp:
Click to expand...
The 85 is such a badass machine isn't it? I get dang near laser quality with it now that I got a table that can run fast enough for it.

First thing I did on my new torchmate was swap out the Lincoln it came with for a Hypertherm.
 
Dethmachinefab said:
The 85 is such a badass machine isn't it? I get dang near laser quality with it now that I got a table that can run fast enough for it.

First thing I did on my new torchmate was swap out the Lincoln it came with for a Hypertherm.
Click to expand...
It is hard to complain about it
 
You'll love the crossfire pro. I love mine.

I've got mine on a 30a circuit off an industrial spool for portability, off a 10ga romex run, 40' from my sub panel, which is 50' from my main panel, and it works mint at 45a. 8awg is plenty for a home run imo.
 
I got everything wired with 8/3 and my machine is giving me an '0-60-0' out of phase error. After combing through my new breaker, wire, outlet setup and verifying 220 getting inside the machine ... it dawns on me that this machine may be stuck in three phase mode. The 45xp should work on single or three phase.

This machine was never used so I couldn't figure out why it would be stuck.

After digging more ... I find out that this is actually a dedicated 3 phase machine. :mad3: Turns out you can get dedicated single or three phase boxes, I didn't realize that was a think or I would have looked it over when buying.

I messaged the guy I bought it from and he was like .. 'huh .. thats odd, didn't know that'. Thanks bud. :flipoff:

So now I'll be listing this one for sale and getting the right one on order
 
Austin said:
I got everything wired with 8/3 and my machine is giving me an '0-60-0' out of phase error. After combing through my new breaker, wire, outlet setup and verifying 220 getting inside the machine ... it dawns on me that this machine may be stuck in three phase mode. The 45xp should work on single or three phase.

This machine was never used so I couldn't figure out why it would be stuck.

After digging more ... I find out that this is actually a dedicated 3 phase machine. :mad3: Turns out you can get dedicated single or three phase boxes, I didn't realize that was a think or I would have looked it over when buying.

I messaged the guy I bought it from and he was like .. 'huh .. thats odd, didn't know that'. Thanks bud. :flipoff:

So now I'll be listing this one for sale and getting the right one on order
Click to expand...

Huh, didn't know that. Does your 45xp have the computer port on it?

I might be down for a trade if it does. My 45xp is 220v single (split) phase, but I have a rpc in my garage, so I could use either. My rpc has to be on for the air compressor when I use the plasma anyway.
 
PAToyota said:
From the manual:
Screen Shot 2023-08-08 at 9.20.59 PM.png


Is there a model number on the unit somewhere?
Click to expand...
That’s all I’ve ever read as well. From the bottom of the machine:
IMG_8627.jpeg



GLTHFJ60 said:
Huh, didn't know that. Does your 45xp have the computer port on it?

I might be down for a trade if it does. My 45xp is 220v single (split) phase, but I have a rpc in my garage, so I could use either. My rpc has to be on for the air compressor when I use the plasma anyway.
Click to expand...

It does not have the computer port, I bought the adapter to hardwire into the CNC table
 
Austin said:
I got everything wired with 8/3 and my machine is giving me an '0-60-0' out of phase error. After combing through my new breaker, wire, outlet setup and verifying 220 getting inside the machine ... it dawns on me that this machine may be stuck in three phase mode. The 45xp should work on single or three phase.

This machine was never used so I couldn't figure out why it would be stuck.

After digging more ... I find out that this is actually a dedicated 3 phase machine. :mad3: Turns out you can get dedicated single or three phase boxes, I didn't realize that was a think or I would have looked it over when buying.

See....wire for the one that you will end up with:grinpimp:
Click to expand...
 
SomeGuyFromOlympia said:
I have the 85
and now my shop is wires 3Ph, and I should have gone bigger :grinpimp:
Click to expand...

Mild hijack.

Is there a point where using too large of a cutter will hurt you? I have a hypertherm 1650 that I never use. It occurred to me the other day that I could remove the 45 from the table and it would be pretty handy as it’s quite portable.

Having the ability to Pierce 7/8 material would be very nice. But I don’t think my table has the speed to take advantage of much else.
 
Bacho said:
Having the ability to Pierce 7/8 material would be very nice. But I don’t think my table has the speed to take advantage of much else.
Click to expand...

All depends on what your table's max IPM is. The crossfire pro is 300IPM, so with a 1650, you could get pretty close to that speed on 1/4" plate I bet. The 45xp has to run 45-70IPM on 1/4" mild steel, which sounds fast, but it could be better.
 
Bacho said:
Mild hijack.

Is there a point where using too large of a cutter will hurt you? I have a hypertherm 1650 that I never use. It occurred to me the other day that I could remove the 45 from the table and it would be pretty handy as it’s quite portable.

Having the ability to Pierce 7/8 material would be very nice. But I don’t think my table has the speed to take advantage of much else.
Click to expand...
my gantry is 5'+ wide
it doesnt not like the quick rapid direction changes that the thin stuff wants to be cut at
I can turn my stuff down to 45A, even then I am fudging the numbers and cutting slow just because of the table
so can you? yes
will it be the quality of something that is built for it with dedicated fine consumables, probably not

the only time my table sees anything less than 1/4 is that rare occasion that you have to make a artsy fartsy piece for that family member that has everything and your kid wants to make it anyway
On top of that, beings it is art, no one can tell that it is any different

In conclusion, you cutter is worthless, and should probably just ship it to me so you have more room in your shop :grinpimp:
 
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