Bolt On Track Conversions for Deep Snow

[Sean]

So, not sure this is the right place for it; nothing popped up in search. If not, mods please feel free to move. Thinking seriously of moving to very remote Montana and living at 6-8K feet elevation where there will be a lot of deep snow for much of the year. Obviously, my first thought was snowmobiles, but just how well do these bolt on track conversions from Mattracks, American Track Truck, Rub Track, Power Track, etc. actually work? From videos, they look like they work well, but are limited to about 40mph top speed (fine for my uses) and they don't look like they turn all that well due to the nature of tracks.

Is one brand vastly superior over others? How do they compare to just airing down a really wide flotation tire? I'd assume fairly large engine power is needed for the larger tires and I'd like to buy something I could potentially swap between the tow rig (diesel Cummins 4x4s) and various full bodied rigs (4Runner, JLUR and possibly TJ on 8 lug tons). The Dodge(s) should be fine on power, the 4runner and JLUR are stock engines.

What about later in the season when forestry roads either have been packed and are icy or not run at all and have seriously deep powder?

Any input experience with them appreciated.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Before you do anything, you might want to check pricing. Mattracks are $20k+ I believe. For that kind of money, there are a lot of other options that can get that same thing accomplished.

I ran sxs tracks on a 50hp samurai the last 3 winters, so no, you don't need big power. Although, they do suck up power.

personally, I thing something like an enclosed cab Polaris Ranger or Can am commander with tracks would be more realistic. Or if you want to save money, a suzuki sidekick.

What part of MT?

 

[Hooligan]

If this is your main transport, I’d be looking at a dedicated sno-cat/Tucker/Piston Bully. Not sure they’re top speed, but seems much more capable when life depends on it. No experience, I just want one of them cuz they look cool

 

[Sean]

Before you do anything, you might want to check pricing. Mattracks are $20k+ I believe. For that kind of money, there are a lot of other options that can get that same thing accomplished.

I ran sxs tracks on a 50hp samurai the last 3 winters, so no, you don't need big power. Although, they do suck up power.

personally, I thing something like an enclosed cab Polaris Ranger or Can am commander with tracks would be more realistic. Or if you want to save money, a suzuki sidekick.

What part of MT?

Good grief. Didn't realize they were that much.

Looking at a few areas...Condon and well outside of Melrose (south of Butte). Might even end up in the Yaak. I'm just trying to get back to Montana really....don't really care where too much as long as it's remote and in the mountains.

 

[AKnate]

I have 2 sets, I'd be running to the bank laughing if I got even 10k for them.

 

[Sean]

I have 2 sets, I'd be running to the bank laughing if I got even 10k for them.

So is the pricing not $20K? Or are you saying they aren't worth the money regardless?

 

[YotaAtieToo]

So is the pricing not $20K? Or are you saying they aren't worth the money regardless?

Brand new they are in that range and up. No idea what other brands or used go for.

Good grief. Didn't realize they were that much.

Looking at a few areas...Condon and well outside of Melrose (south of Butte). Might even end up in the Yaak. I'm just trying to get back to Montana really....don't really care where too much as long as it's remote and in the mountains.

Yaak isn't too far from here.........interesting place But ya, definitely remote.

 

[Sean]

Brand new they are in that range and up. No idea what other brands or used go for.



Yaak isn't too far from here.........interesting place But ya, definitely remote.

I'm afraid to ask, lol....but in what way is it 'interesting'?

 

[PAE]

Snowcat time ?

Have been looking for property on and around Yaak river road, Saunders county.

 

[Sean]

Snowcat time ?

Not sure of the legality of either these tracks or a Snowcat on public roads. My need would be that I'd be living far off the beaten path...no paved road. But, to go into town for supplies....I'd need to drive down off the mountain, then switch to a vehicle capable of highway travel. To be honest, I'm not sure what the legalities are in MT with this sort of thing. I know a lot of people use a sled to get up the forestry road to the cabin and have a 4x4 parked down near the highway for trips into town....just not sure I'm enamored with the idea of leaving a vehicle unattended all winter out without being able to make sure it's secure.

 

[Sean]

If this is your main transport, I’d be looking at a dedicated sno-cat/Tucker/Piston Bully. Not sure they’re top speed, but seems much more capable when life depends on it. No experience, I just want one of them cuz they look cool

40mph is the max speed for Mattracks. Not sure on Sno-cats. I think that's reasonable (40mph) top speed on snowy/icy roads.

 

[AKnate]

So is the pricing not $20K? Or are you saying they aren't worth the money regardless?

Definitely not worth 20k a set.

40mph would take some really tall gearing in the diffs and high redline. More like 15-20mph.

 

[PAE]

Matttraks definitely a rich mans snow transportation.

Used them dead of winter when house sitting at my uncles cabin at Green Valley Lake SoCal mountains North Of LA.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

I'm afraid to ask, lol....but in what way is it 'interesting'?

It's exactly what you'd think of when talking remote mt. Lots of weirdos, and interesting folks. Only place I've seen an elementary school with a wood stove

Not sure of the legality of either these tracks or a Snowcat on public roads. My need would be that I'd be living far off the beaten path...no paved road. But, to go into town for supplies....I'd need to drive down off the mountain, then switch to a vehicle capable of highway travel. To be honest, I'm not sure what the legalities are in MT with this sort of thing. I know a lot of people use a sled to get up the forestry road to the cabin and have a 4x4 parked down near the highway for trips into town....just not sure I'm enamored with the idea of leaving a vehicle unattended all winter out without being able to make sure it's secure.

How far off the county road are you planning? I think your plan sounds a little bit like what a city person moving to the mountains would come up with

Most people would just buy equipment to clear the snow. I'm not familiar with any other areas you mentioned, but yaak is about an hour plus drive from any real town on dry roads. Driving a tracked truck a mile through deep snow, then 50 miles of plowed road just doesn't make any sense.

For what you want to do, a set of chains for your truck will get you through most storms. Then you'll probably have to plow or clear every now and then. A plow on your truck will probably be the easiest way if it's a long road. We don't typically get giant storms that drop 3 feet of snow, so as long as you keep up on it, it wouldn't be too bad. But something like a skid steer or tractor with a blower would be even better.

 

[Sean]

Definitely not worth 20k a set.

40mph would take some really tall gearing in the diffs and high redline. More like 15-20mph.

I appreciate the input....glad I didn't spend a lot of time going down this rabbit hole.

 

[Sean]

Matttraks definitely a rich mans snow transportation.

Used them dead of winter when house sitting at my uncles cabin at Green Valley Lake SoCal mountains North Of LA.

Out of curiosity, did they work fine?

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Definitely not worth 20k a set.

40mph would take some really tall gearing in the diffs and high redline. More like 15-20mph.

I don't see how 40mph wouldn't be possible. You basically loose half your speed since the drive sprocket becomes your effective tire size. Most pickups are capable of well over 100mph gearing wise. I've done 40mph in my Samurai and it has a 1.7:1 high range and 3.73s.

Now, to be realistic, 40mph is pretty fast on tracks. They're basically going to eat themselves up quick at that speed.

 

[Sean]

It's exactly what you'd think of when talking remote mt. Lots of weirdos, and interesting folks. Only place I've seen an elementary school with a wood stove



How far off the county road are you planning? I think your plan sounds a little bit like what a city person moving to the mountains would come up with

Most people would just buy equipment to clear the snow. I'm not familiar with any other areas you mentioned, but yaak is about an hour plus drive from any real town on dry roads. Driving a tracked truck a mile through deep snow, then 50 miles of plowed road just doesn't make any sense.

For what you want to do, a set of chains for your truck will get you through most storms. Then you'll probably have to plow or clear every now and then. A plow on your truck will probably be the easiest way if it's a long road. We don't typically get giant storms that drop 3 feet of snow, so as long as you keep up on it, it wouldn't be too bad. But something like a skid steer or tractor with a blower would be even better.

Well, I'm from Montana originally and just like most of the people here on the board, I'd wager our idea of what is a passable trail is greatly out of whack with what any sane person would consider doable.

Most of the properties I've looked at are ~7ish miles up a forestry type dirt road off the main paved roadway....too far and sketchy to plow. I was planning a plow for the tow rig anyway....but that was also when I was looking at properties that were only 1 mile or so off the main paved roadway. A Kubota track loader is already in inventory....SVL65 that could do that job as well.

 

[AKnate]

I don't see how 40mph wouldn't be possible. You basically loose half your speed since the drive sprocket becomes your effective tire size. Most pickups are capable of well over 100mph gearing wise. I've done 40mph in my Samurai and it has a 1.7:1 high range and 3.73s.

Now, to be realistic, 40mph is pretty fast on tracks. They're basically going to eat themselves up quick at that speed.

More than 1/2. Closer to a third.

It's like a 10-14" sprocket, depending on the track.

That's 75" vs about 200" with a 32" tire.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Well, I'm from Montana originally and just like most of the people here on the board, I'd wager our idea of what is a passable trail is greatly out of whack with what any sane person would consider doable.

Yes, but sliding off a cliff or a 6 foot drift are going to be tough for anything.

Most of the properties I've looked at are ~7ish miles up a forestry type dirt road off the main paved roadway....too far and sketchy to plow. I was planning a plow for the tow rig anyway....but that was also when I was looking at properties that were only 1 mile or so off the main paved roadway. A Kubota track loader is already in inventory....SVL65 that could do that job as well.

Are you positive that 7 miles won't be plowed by anyone but you?

I still think plowing will be the most realistic way. A pickup on chains can do quite a bit. We don't even run chains most of the time on ours.

For the tracked skid steer, you'll want some sort of ice cleats, they won't fine in snow right up until they don't

 

[YotaAtieToo]

More than 1/2. Closer to a third.

It's like a 10-14" sprocket, depending on the track.

That's 75" vs about 200" with a 32" tire.

Fair enough, but 3rd of 120 is still 40

 

[Sean]

Yes, but sliding off a cliff or a 6 foot drift are going to be tough for anything.



Are you positive that 7 miles won't be plowed by anyone but you?

I still think plowing will be the most realistic way. A pickup on chains can do quite a bit. We don't even run chains most of the time on ours.

For the tracked skid steer, you'll want some sort of ice cleats, they won't fine in snow right up until they don't

100% agreed...which is why I'm asking about how well they actually work.

No, I'm not positive....but I can see the last several miles being unlikely anyone else would do it as there just aren't many houses.

Yeah, I was looking into cleats for tracks yesterday. Gripstuds are an option too (150 per track minimum)...but just don't seem like they'd work as well as the removable cleats.

 

[Weasel]

It's exactly what you'd think of when talking remote mt. Lots of weirdos, and interesting folks. Only place I've seen an elementary school with a wood stove



How far off the county road are you planning? I think your plan sounds a little bit like what a city person moving to the mountains would come up with

Most people would just buy equipment to clear the snow. I'm not familiar with any other areas you mentioned, but yaak is about an hour plus drive from any real town on dry roads. Driving a tracked truck a mile through deep snow, then 50 miles of plowed road just doesn't make any sense.

For what you want to do, a set of chains for your truck will get you through most storms. Then you'll probably have to plow or clear every now and then. A plow on your truck will probably be the easiest way if it's a long road. We don't typically get giant storms that drop 3 feet of snow, so as long as you keep up on it, it wouldn't be too bad. But something like a skid steer or tractor with a blower would be even better.

I agree with the above.

If your doing deep snow in Backcountry snowcat, snowmobile or snow bike.

Otherwise big fat tires on a 4x4 for snow duty.

 

[Sean]

I agree with the above.

If your doing deep snow in Backcountry snowcat, snowmobile or snow bike.

Otherwise big fat tires on a 4x4 for snow duty.

I appreciate the input. It sounds like the consensus is that if you're not buying a sled, bike or snowcat....a truck on fat tires with chains is the better option than these bolt on track kits.

 

[PAE]

This experience was back in the late 1970's wasnt matttracks but an earlier ex military thing but basically the same, uncle was a died in the wool command rank Marine and was always five fingering new tech that the corp was developing.

Always got away with it with no getting in trouble, worked fine for what I did with the truck just drove around the lake checking on his rental properties and hit the lumber yard (Fox Lumber) a few times for chow.

Out of curiosity, did they work fine?

 

[Weasel]

What I don't like on the tracks is the shape. Fall into a hole or under a lot and they get jacked up. Now that's probably not what you using them for.

Get a Sherp lol.

 

[Sean]

What I don't like on the tracks is the shape. Fall into a hole or under a lot and they get jacked up. Now that's probably not what you using them for.

Get a Sherp lol.

Yeah, they show them going over logs in their promotional videos...but the logs are flat on the ground, not across the trail (a foot or more off the ground) like you see out in the woods. I figure for anything like that, I'd need to bust out the chain saw.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

I appreciate the input. It sounds like the consensus is that if you're not buying a sled, bike or snowcat....a truck on fat tires with chains is the better option than these bolt on track kits.

Don't really need fat tires with chains. If you removing snow, you shouldn't have to deal with more than a foot at a time if you keep on it.

What I don't like on the tracks is the shape. Fall into a hole or under a lot and they get jacked up. Now that's probably not what you using them for.

Get a Sherp lol.

This is true. You have to use your brain when running tracks.

To be fair, if you fell in the hole with tracks, you would have never got there with tires smaller than 44s

With the Samurai, those gay traction boards were really handy for this. Fall into a hole crossing a frozen creek, back up a bit and throw the board down as a ramp to climb out rather than the track trying to go under the snow. Same thing with a downed tree that was off the ground a bit.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

100% agreed...which is why I'm asking about how well they actually work.

No, I'm not positive....but I can see the last several miles being unlikely anyone else would do it as there just aren't many houses.

Living 7 miles up a road than unplowed is going to be a pain no matter what.

I'd think with a plow on your pickup, you'll be able to just plow your way out as long as you don't wait until there is 3 feet of snow. Or a foot of snow that melted in the sun a bit and refroze. The other worry would be getting bermed in later in the season of you don't wing everything off the road.

Yeah, I was looking into cleats for tracks yesterday. Gripstuds are an option too (150 per track minimum)...but just don't seem like they'd work as well as the removable cleats.

I don't like the idea of studs because I'd want to use the thing year round and I don't see the studs liking summer time.

I've read about those cleats, but haven't used them. I plow snow in a tracked skid steer with the zip zag pattern tracks. They're supposed to be better than the regular mini ex style tracks. It works totally fine for what we do, which is mostly flat parking lots. However, get on a hill and have to turn and it's basically useless. No way I'd take it on a mountain road without adding something.

 

[Sean]

Living 7 miles up a road than unplowed is going to be a pain no matter what.

I'd think with a plow on your pickup, you'll be able to just plow your way out as long as you don't wait until there is 3 feet of snow. Or a foot of snow that melted in the sun a bit and refroze. The other worry would be getting bermed in later in the season of you don't wing everything off the road.



I don't like the idea of studs because I'd want to use the thing year round and I don't see the studs liking summer time.

I've read about those cleats, but haven't used them. I plow snow in a tracked skid steer with the zip zag pattern tracks. They're supposed to be better than the regular mini ex style tracks. It works totally fine for what we do, which is mostly flat parking lots. However, get on a hill and have to turn and it's basically useless. No way I'd take it on a mountain road without adding something.

I think the problem is getting white out/blizzard conditions and 24" or more of snow in one storm at that sort of elevation. In that case, "keeping up with it" isn't really going to be an option.