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Better brakes

Lbhsbz

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Could this be added to a vacuum booster?


I would love a way to not have to go whole hog into hydro boost
All that is is a shitty Bendix designed master cylinder that uses o-rings instead of u-cups and tilt valves to transfer fluid between the reservoir and cylinder and stiffer springs inside than you have holding up the front of your truck. I would choose any other type of master cylinder.

What master are you using now? That's were we should start...or at least determine the bore size.
 

YotaAtieToo

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Hydroboost is pretty easy swap if it's meant for the truck. I didn't even change the master, just moved it to the side.

2 steering lines and the booster was all that I had to change.
 

Grendel

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I guess I am opposite of everyone else. If your booster gets enough vacuum, change the front calipers if you have wheels that will clear them.

I use late model dual piston calipers.


Granted, Torq got a bad rap, but I think WFO makes them too?

I use these brakes with hydro boost, too... this to me is the best of the best OEM brakes.
 

Bebop

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Fawk.

Another brake thread, another thread with no tech and just opinions (mine included).

OP, measure your brake pressure at the calipers and we'll go from there.
 

Tiha

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Here is some tech from my brake thread comparing single/dual piston caliper clamping force vs pressure.

Single piston caddy calipers have a piston bore of 54mm. With 1000 PSI of fluid pressure that creates 3549 pounds of force on the brake pads/rotor.

Compared to,
Dual piston calipers from 2000 E350 van with Dana with 60 rear axle. They have two 44.9mm diameter pistons. With 1000 pounds of fluid pressure each piston exerts 2454 pounds of force, 4908 total pounds of clamping force.

Super Duty rear calipers from 99 and up used 44.3 MM pistons. So essentially the same as the vans.

Front calipers on the OBS like 1995 F350 are a 56.1 mm piston. with 1000 pounds of fluid pressure each piston creates 3831 pounds of force. total 7622 pounds of clamping force.
 

arse_sidewards

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Didn't someone have a bracket to run late model GM calipers on a Ford D50/60 spindle bolt pattern? I recall having a conversation with someone and getting CAD files but I can't find the thread or the files now.
 

Grendel

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Didn't someone have a bracket to run late model GM calipers on a Ford D50/60 spindle bolt pattern? I recall having a conversation with someone and getting CAD files but I can't find the thread or the files now.
Yep. I did. I sent them to you.

I posted the GM ones that WFO makes since he has a GM front axle
 

pennsylvaniaboy

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Fawk.

Another brake thread, another thread with no tech and just opinions (mine included).

OP, measure your brake pressure at the calipers and we'll go from there.
Sorry I dont have a way to measure this.
 

pennsylvaniaboy

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Yep. I did. I sent them to you.

I posted the GM ones that WFO makes since he has a GM front axle


I'm down for a CAD file as I have a local laser cutter. But I do not see the GM WFO kit? just the Ford one?
 

pennsylvaniaboy

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I will say this, I think the front function well enough as I have a line lock plumbed into the circuit. IF that is locked, the truck doesnt not move, double low or not....
 

Grendel

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I'm down for a CAD file as I have a local laser cutter. But I do not see the GM WFO kit? just the Ford one?
The CAD files I have (somewhere) are for Ford spindles, not GM.

They are completely different.
 

Bebop

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I will say this, I think the front function well enough as I have a line lock plumbed into the circuit. IF that is locked, the truck doesnt not move, double low or not....
Trying to understand here...

If the front only is enough to stop the car, how is front + rear worse ?
 

pennsylvaniaboy

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Trying to understand here...

If the front only is enough to stop the car, how is front + rear worse ?
SO i have a manual truck. I use the front brake circuit as a e-brake. So stand on the brakes, twist the valve, front is locked. This is works well. But in driving it seems like i just want more brake, faster. Or if I shut the truck of on a hill, and restart, I can be on the brake, and it will lose pressure and drift..... or if it stalls, it can be even more scary....I have stalled, lost brake pressure and actually drifted back into a vehicle pretty hard
 

Bebop

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Ok, so your brakes suck ass and are nowhere near good enough. The fact you can hold the car at a stop doesn't mean shit.

When you say "lost brake pressure", do you mean you lost the vacuum help from the booster and the pedal became too hard to press to be effective or the pedal went to the floor (soft) and you still couldn't stop the vehicle?
 

pennsylvaniaboy

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Ok, so your brakes suck ass and are nowhere near good enough. The fact you can hold the car at a stop doesn't mean shit.

When you say "lost brake pressure", do you mean you lost the vacuum help from the booster and the pedal became too hard to press to be effective or the pedal went to the floor (soft) and you still couldn't stop the vehicle?

Right! they suck....hence the thread:flipoff2:

No when it has stalled or has been sitting and restarted on a hill, your foot can be on the pedal, and it just looses effectiveness and the pedal does move towards the floor but not like a busted line feels....you had better be pumping fast and hope you build pressure quick...
 

Bebop

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Ok.

This is typical of a master that is too small.

If you go to a bigger master you'll get better performance, but it'll be a lot harder to push on.

Go with the bigger master that was recommended earlier in the thread and hydroboost if you can press on the pedal.
 

arse_sidewards

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The caliper/rotor has a different spacing to the knuckle, in addition to different spindle bolt patterns.
Are you saying that Ford TTB D50/UB D50/D60 are different from what he has or different from each other.

I'm 99% sure TTB D50 and D60 shit swap with no change to brake package. I know people put TTB D50 onto UB D50 to get 8x6.5. So aren't all three the same?
 

YotaAtieToo

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I talked to trever at WFO about that brake bracket. He said the actual difference isn't much, they make them for guys doing solid axle swaps who want to keep their current brakes.

To me, what op described sounded similar to my brakes on my 97 F350. My plan was to go bigger rotors and calipers, but I wanted to start with the hydroboost as I think it would have came about either way. For a trail truck, I don't see a huge benefit to bigger rotors and calipers. He may be happy with just the hydroboost, but may also want a bigger master. I think a bigger master with the vacuum booster may not really be what he's wanting. There is probably a reason why gm put hydroboost with the master that goes with that front axle.
 

pennsylvaniaboy

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Ok.

This is typical of a master that is too small.

If you go to a bigger master you'll get better performance, but it'll be a lot harder to push on.

Go with the bigger master that was recommended earlier in the thread and hydroboost if you can press on the pedal.
So torq motor sports recommends a master cylinder from a 2009 or newer 1 ton GM. Start with that on current booster or get he hydro boost unit as well?
 

Bebop

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I'd do both.
The master you're talking about is a 1-5/16".

The only problem with that is that it won't fit on a old school HB.

So you'd have to cobble something to make this HB work on your truck.

If I were you I'd get a 1980ish one ton HB and a big volume MC (see the RV one posted earlier). It'll be bolt-on in your truck.
 

YotaAtieToo

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I'd do both.
The master you're talking about is a 1-5/16".

The only problem with that is that it won't fit on a old school HB.

So you'd have to cobble something to make this HB work on your truck.

If I were you I'd get a 1980ish one ton HB and a big volume MC (see the RV one posted earlier). It'll be bolt-on in your truck.

I agree, at least start with the stock(ish) set up for that axle.
 

Grendel

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Are you saying that Ford TTB D50/UB D50/D60 are different from what he has or different from each other.

I'm 99% sure TTB D50 and D60 shit swap with no change to brake package. I know people put TTB D50 onto UB D50 to get 8x6.5. So aren't all three the same?
I meant Chevy to Ford
 

Lbhsbz

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surface area of a 1.25" piston is 1.226"
surface area of a 1 5/16" piston is 1.35"

That's 10% more fluid volume and 10% less pressure at for a given pedal travel and effort. Not substantial enough to go through the effort of making it fit.
 

pennsylvaniaboy

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surface area of a 1.25" piston is 1.226"
surface area of a 1 5/16" piston is 1.35"

That's 10% more fluid volume and 10% less pressure at for a given pedal travel and effort. Not substantial enough to go through the effort of making it fit.
Making what fit?
 
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