Automatic Transmission Trail Fixes

[MigGunslinger]

Wheeling last weekend and had an issue where we had a punctured transmission pan. While I tried to think my may through the situation logically and prevent further damage I realized that I had very little assurance that we were making the right assumptions. My TJ has an auto as well and I would like to be more confident if this ever happens to me (my trans is fully covered by the skid plate). This is a general thread about massive fluid loss in auto trannies when your tow rig or parts house is hours of hard trail away.

Since people will want to know specifics this was an AMC version Turbo 400 on a CJ-7. We shut the engine off immediately and dragged the jeep (with a lot of effort) out of the obstacle and to a flat place. We dropped the trans pan, cleaned it, and was able to use my bun welder to tack the hole closed. We then put my spare 1.5 quarts in to the trans and wheeled it to camp. At camp were able to scrounge another 2 quarts which got us to the dipstick.

Assumption 1: Shutting down the engine. My thought process was that whatever fluid was in the trans would end up in the pan and then on the ground. I also figured that eventually running the engine with no fluid in the trans would burn up the pump, not sure on the timeline. Running the engine would have made getting the jeep off of the obstacle much easier, and power steering would have helped tow it to the flat spot. Was this the right move, was it too cautious?

Assumption 2: In this situation any ATF is good ATF. From what I understand the different specifications for ATF are important but I figured a few quarts of ATF+4 in a system designed for dextron etc is better than nothing to get you off of the trail. At what point would mixing and matching the wrong fluid get you in trouble? What about power steering fluid in a pinch?

Assumption 3: there was no obvious way to get the fluid out of the cooler and bypass it to keep volume in the pan. Just something we were thinking about.

Anyone here ever lost a cooler line or pan and had to do sketchy stuff to get off of the trail? Looking to learn.

And yes, I know real men wheel manual rigs

 

[Gravy]

Carry steelsit or what ever 2 part mix together epoxy. It may not seal it completely but slow it down. Also you can carry 15min permatex and rvt the stick/rock into the hole and wait.

In a trail situation, where the tow rig or camp is to reasonably far out everything is transmission fluid. Dump engine oil, power steering, gear oil whatever is available.

 

[MigGunslinger]

Carry steelsit or what ever 2 part mix together epoxy. It may not seal it completely but slow it down. Also you can carry 15min permatex and rvt the stick/rock into the hole and wait.

In a trail situation, where the tow rig or camp is to reasonably far out everything is transmission fluid. Dump engine oil, power steering, gear oil whatever is available.

We actually had a pinhole in a fuel tank as well, turns out a self tapper with 4 layers of duct tape as a gasket and a big gob of RTV will completely stop the fuel leak. I figured the fluid was gone already and I had the welder handy. I guess a big gob of permatex slapped on the pan could have saved some of the fluid quickly.

 

[Gravy]

We actually had a pinhole in a fuel tank as well, turns out a self tapper with 4 layers of duct tape as a gasket and a big gob of RTV will completely stop the fuel leak. I figured the fluid was gone already and I had the welder handy. I guess a big gob of permatex slapped on the pan could have saved some of the fluid quickly.

Yup, peice of card board slathered in rtv. You will most likely not get a decent seal without removal and a little cleaning using gas/fire.

The epoxy puddy that you knead together is better for slapping on

 

[RustyC]

This epoxy made by PIG is really damn impressive. It will stick to dripping diesel fuel and gasoline.
I keep some in the tool kit. Brake clean the area and have a putty patch ready to go. Cures hard to the touch in 15 mins. You can drill and tap it within 1 hour.

You would have never had to drop the pan with PIG putty.

Epoxy Putty: Multi-Purpose - New Pig

High-quality Epoxy Putty repairs fast by sticking to almost anything and curing concrete-hard in 1 hour. Buy this non-toxic PIG Putty only at New Pig.

www.newpig.com

 

[ridenby]

In a trail situation, where the tow rig or camp is to reasonably far out everything is transmission fluid. Dump engine oil, power steering, gear oil whatever is available.

I do not agree. Why screw up a trans with dumping crap in it? It is a trail not a life or death situation. Drag vehicle to clear trail, ease repair. Fix, Drive out or continue on.

 

[MigGunslinger]

This epoxy made by PIG is really damn impressive. It will stick to dripping diesel fuel and gasoline.
I keep some in the tool kit. Brake clean the area and have a putty patch ready to go. Cures hard to the touch in 15 mins. You can drill and tap it within 1 hour.

You would have never had to drop the pan with PIG putty.

Epoxy Putty: Multi-Purpose - New Pig

High-quality Epoxy Putty repairs fast by sticking to almost anything and curing concrete-hard in 1 hour. Buy this non-toxic PIG Putty only at New Pig.

www.newpig.com

That is interesting. A 6 pack for 60 bucks is a bit steep but I guess you could hand them out to your wheeling buddies. 2 year shelf life. But if you need it and it works then I guess you would be happy at twice the price.

 

[RustyC]

That is interesting. A 6 pack for 60 bucks is a bit steep but I guess you could hand them out to your wheeling buddies. 2 year shelf life. But if you need it and it works then I guess you would be happy at twice the price.

I have some that is over 2 years old still works fine. Probably like 3 to 5 years old.

 

[aczlan]

That is interesting. A 6 pack for 60 bucks is a bit steep but I guess you could hand them out to your wheeling buddies. 2 year shelf life. But if you need it and it works then I guess you would be happy at twice the price.

Compared to a tank of gas these days, it's cheap...

Aaron Z

 

[arse_sidewards]

Carry a collapsed milk jug as a fluid reservoir (you can blow it back up like a balloon).

Park the vehicle on an incline or jack it up so you get a single leak point rather than fluid dripping off a bunch of places and landing in a huge area. If not possible use a floor mat to create a culvert for it to land in. From there pour the dirty-ass fluid into some sort of pan and then into the milk jug for storage.

Fix your leak.

Zip tie your girlfriend's panties over the mouth of the jug as a filter.

Pour fluid back in.

Marvel at how much dirt it left behind in the jug.

If you're a high roller you can carry two jugs you can strategically cut one in half to make two pans that can be used to catch fluid and easily poured from, which might save you from having to run all your fluid across a dirty-ass floor mat.

 

[Bebop]

Carry a collapsed milk jug as a fluid reservoir (you can blow it back up like a balloon).

That's fucking genius !

 

[TrailTamer]

In a trail situation, where the tow rig or camp is to reasonably far out everything is transmission fluid. Dump engine oil, power steering, gear oil whatever is available.

That’s what I’ll do too.

I do not agree. Why screw up a trans with dumping crap in it? It is a trail not a life or death situation. Drag vehicle to clear trail, ease repair. Fix, Drive out or continue on.

You sound like someone to avoid. I won’t let my tranny to ruin my and my wheeling group’s day, just because of my fuck-up due to lack of armoring or driving skill.



Some motor oil or anything ‘oil’ (other than brake oil) with thin viscosity will work fine in the auto trans, especially the 42RE/42RLE or th400. Mixing to thin out gear oil if needed/possible.
Obviously be sure to change oil at home (and add armoring to trans!)

Carry oil pump with tube. To pump a quart of atf out of your friends’ rigs into yours. Most auto trans still will function just fine with 1-2 quarts low from full level mark.


I’ll like to add to this thread, that we need to have a good practice of packing supplies for spillage clean up in the rig. Oil absorb, Trash bag to put oil-soaked oil absorbs into, or to dig contaminated soil into, and some empty containers to drain fluid into, etc.

And carry at least a pint of brake oil, regardless. No substitute for them.

 

[arse_sidewards]

That’s what I’ll do too.

You sound like someone to avoid. I won’t let my tranny to ruin my and my wheeling group’s day, just because of my fuck-up due to lack of armoring or driving skill.

Fuck off Karen. Fixing shit on the trail is half the fun.

And carry at least a pint of brake oil, regardless. No substitute for them.

Water/coolant works for brake fluid and won't kill all the rubber like "real oil" will. Obviously you need to flush it when done and be super careful to not overheat it but it is doable for when you need brakes to crawl your way off the trail.

 

[AKnate]

Flexseal tape is what we have at work for 55 gal oil drum punctures.

 

[MigGunslinger]

Carry a collapsed milk jug as a fluid reservoir (you can blow it back up like a balloon).

A handy container to catch and recover the fluid is a great idea. Dropping the pan all we could scrounge up was a cook pot lined with trash bags.

Fuck off Karen. Fixing Other People's shit on the trail is half the fun.

FIFY

Some motor oil or anything ‘oil’ (other than brake oil) with thin viscosity will work fine in the auto trans, especially the 42RE/42RLE or th400.

My assumption was that an older fluid controlled trans like the TH400 would be more robust and care less about putting fucky fluids in it. Then again my 42RLE is controlled by electronic valves so there is a chance it would actually care less about viscosity?

I’ll like to add to this thread, that we need to have a good practice of packing supplies for spillage clean up in the rig. Oil absorb, Trash bag to put oil-soaked oil absorbs into, or to dig contaminated soil into, and some empty containers to drain fluid into, etc.

This was a lesson as well. I specifically did not mention where this happened as it's the kind of place that is always under attack and having searchable accounts of oil leaks would not be helpfull. By the time we got the pan dropped, welded up, and back moving it was dark and a few hundred yards back on the trail. In the future whoever is not working on the fix will go back with the spill kit and try to tidy up.

 

[Weasel]

This epoxy made by PIG is really damn impressive. It will stick to dripping diesel fuel and gasoline.
I keep some in the tool kit. Brake clean the area and have a putty patch ready to go. Cures hard to the touch in 15 mins. You can drill and tap it within 1 hour.

You would have never had to drop the pan with PIG putty.

Epoxy Putty: Multi-Purpose - New Pig

High-quality Epoxy Putty repairs fast by sticking to almost anything and curing concrete-hard in 1 hour. Buy this non-toxic PIG Putty only at New Pig.

www.newpig.com

sweet thanks, getting some coming and I'm low on pig mats anyways. Also the Felxtape is a good tip. A trans gasket might be a good thing to have or lube locker.

I personally would not dump any kind of oil in a transmission, depends on the situation really. Engine oil probably, gear oil probably not.

 

[MigGunslinger]

sweet thanks, getting some coming and I'm low on pig mats anyways

They are selling the oil mats on amazon for $20 cheaper (with longer lead time), they also want to ship the putty and mats from separate facilities and charge me shipping on both? $15 and $18 respectively.

I know amazon is evil but damn. I'll report back if their amazon store is a front selling generic shit or something.

 

[TrailTamer]

Fuck off Karen. Fixing shit on the trail is half the fun.

Isn’t that’s what I’m saying? I won’t want to be a trail tampon just because I refuse (aka Karen-ing) to use motor oil instead of ATF after we rtv’d a random useless membership or reward card out of our’s wallet on the hole.

Water/coolant works for brake fluid and won't kill all the rubber like "real oil" will. Obviously you need to flush it when done and be super careful to not overheat it but it is doable for when you need brakes to crawl your way off the trail.

Good to know. Very unlikely brakes get hot on trails, except dragging calipers lol.

 

[ridenby]

That’s what I’ll do too.

You sound like someone to avoid. I won’t let my tranny to ruin my and my wheeling group’s day, just because of my fuck-up due to lack of armoring or driving skill.



Some motor oil or anything ‘oil’ (other than brake oil) with thin viscosity will work fine in the auto trans, especially the 42RE/42RLE or th400. Mixing to thin out gear oil if needed/possible.
Obviously be sure to change oil at home (and add armoring to trans!)

Carry oil pump with tube. To pump a quart of atf out of your friends’ rigs into yours. Most auto trans still will function just fine with 1-2 quarts low from full level mark.


I’ll like to add to this thread, that we need to have a good practice of packing supplies for spillage clean up in the rig. Oil absorb, Trash bag to put oil-soaked oil absorbs into, or to dig contaminated soil into, and some empty containers to drain fluid into, etc.

And carry at least a pint of brake oil, regardless. No substitute for them.

Why would you not carry trans fluid with you? Too cool?

 

[MigGunslinger]

Why would you not carry trans fluid with you? Too cool?

I carry a quart or 2 because it is good for all kinds of shit. I will probably keep a gallon on hand after this though, the service fill on most transmissions (full drain of oil pan) is well over 4 quarts.

The CJs I wheel with carry gear oil and power steering fluid but nothing on their rig takes ATF (except this 7 of course) and if I need gear oil for my difs the 2 quarts of 10w30 I carry will get me off of the trail.

 

[Gravy]

Why would you not carry trans fluid with you? Too cool?

That's just life honestly, you can't carry everything or happen to forget. I don't carry enough oil for everything but mix and match if needed to get back.

As for the engine oil in the transmission? If needed I'll dump some in and limp back to camp. I'm not going to be beating on it or anything. Just need enough lubrication for the front pump, converter to grab, and lock up a piston.

 

[Gravy]

Good to know. Very unlikely brakes get hot on trails, except dragging calipers lol.

Lock it in first and low. Generally the front and back are separated so you can pinch off either circuit and use just the front or back.

With the transfer case locked in, the front brakes will transfer through the driveshaft and slow the rear axle or vice versa. Although not as strong I'll stay in four high limping back on the road to even the brakes if I lose one or the other

 

[arse_sidewards]

Lock it in first and low. Generally the front and back are separated so you can pinch off either circuit and use just the front or back.

With the transfer case locked in, the front brakes will transfer through the driveshaft and slow the rear axle or vice versa. Although not as strong I'll stay in four high limping back on the road to even the brakes if I lose one or the other

I've driven a hell of a lot of miles in 4H using the parking brake to actuate the drums.

 

[rockyota83]

i plugged a hole the size of a dime in an oil pan with some cardboard and ultra black rtv, while oil was gushing out, worked great. mash the cardboard in the hole then smear a bunch of rtv on it, let it setup for 20 min then smear a bunch of rtv on it again.

 

[TrailTamer]

Generally the front and back are separated so you can pinch off either circuit and use just the front or back.

I carry a 3/8”or 5/16” bolt with nut in the glove box. I had to use it twice when a caliper’s piston fractured and the other time when I lost a caliper bolt. Unbolt the banjo bolt & use the bolt with nut in its place.

Brake performance greatly diminished but still stops.