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ATF/Biden are about to cost me some $…

Gatorgrizz27

Well-known member
Joined
May 20, 2020
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I am completely satisfied with the current state of my firearms collection besides needing to add a Beretta O/U and a 6mm ARC bolt gun for my boys to hunt with. However, it seems every time the dems get on their “gun control” wagon it ends up costing me a ton of $$$ for stuff I’d otherwise be content without owning. :laughing:

I have a couple of “unbraced pistols” that I was planning to SBR at some point, and had actually considered that the NFA might serve as a ”safeguard” of sorts in the future against an AWB, etc. Basically, stuff that was legally permitted through congress might be harder to make illegal than your typical AR. Then this pistol brace deal started being talked about and I decided I’d wait to see about ”free stamps.”

However, the way they are attempting to go about it makes me think the “registration leads to confiscation“ crowd is right. The fact that they are waiving the tax (lost tax revenue is the most logical reason to do this), denying new trust applications, want a photo of the now illegal firearm, and their general attitude makes me not a fan of either route (amnesty or typical SBR).

Everything I have that is short I use a can on, that’s the major reason to own them IMO. So I’m now faced with the decision of whether or not to pin and weld cans on these guys to make them over 16” long, then throw stocks on them. The ones I have now were all selected based on being “versatile” for multiple guns, so nothing I want permanently mounted. So now I’m doing some research and might be a few grand poorer…

Anybody else looking at this option, or just waiting it out? I’d be more inclined to take that route if I hadn’t planned to go SBR originally. I know suppressors are part of the NFA game as well, but this seems different…
 
We can't have nice things here, but I wouldn't permanently attach a can to any weapon. Unless the linear is not serialized and you swap the baffles and shell between moderator liners.

Of course that's probably not how they work, I've never seen one:laughing:.
 
Just sbr them. All of my short stuff is on a list now. I did it over the last year and a half. I knew this was coming.
 
M92PV4U said:
We can't have nice things here, but I wouldn't permanently attach a can to any weapon. Unless the linear is not serialized and you swap the baffles and shell between moderator liners.

Of course that's probably not how they work, I've never seen one:laughing:.
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I guess welds can always fail, but from what I’ve seen generally the only issues that pop up from a tested can on a tested weapon are from things loosening up, which couldn’t happen. In the event that there was an issue, the upper could be shipped to the manufacturer for warranty and you’d still have the lower.
 
Aisin said:
Just sbr them. All of my short stuff is on a list now. I did it over the last year and a half. I knew this was coming.
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That was my original plan until they seem to be gearing up to go all Canadian on our asses.
 
Gatorgrizz27 said:
I guess welds can always fail, but from what I’ve seen generally the only issues that pop up from a tested can on a tested weapon are from things loosening up, which wouldn’t happen. In the event that there was an issue, the upper could be shipped to the manufacturer for warranty and you’d still have the lower.
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I just wouldn't want the can that could be used on many weapons permanently attached to one. Especially with the price and wait times.
 
M92PV4U said:
I just wouldn't want the can that could be used on many weapons permanently attached to one. Especially with the price and wait times.
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I agree, hence the costing me $ part. I already have some versatile cans, I’d be buying some specific ones.
 
WaterH said:
Are you saying a can is part of the barrel length? I didn’t realize that.
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I'm playing around with the idea of making some integral AR barrels. If braces do go away I can see it being a good alternative to many people.
 
kf4zht said:
I'm playing around with the idea of making some integral AR barrels. If braces do go away I can see it being a good alternative to many people.
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What’s the latest on the Form 1 cans? I thought they had basically shut that down as well, in addition to cracking down on the “solvent traps”.

Seems like it would be relatively easy to drill a bunch of holes in an AR barrel on some V-blocks in a drill press, thread a standard direct thread mount on backwards, and make a can with a baffle stack that sealed up against the gas block with an O-ring for thermal expansion/contraction.
 
M92PV4U said:
I just wouldn't want the can that could be used on many weapons permanently attached to one. Especially with the price and wait times.
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I have one I built when I first got my SOT, before I surrendered my SOT I pined it to an AK. Not an expensive can and the gun is nice to shoot
 
Gatorgrizz27 said:
What’s the latest on the Form 1 cans? I thought they had basically shut that down as well, in addition to cracking down on the “solvent traps”.

Seems like it would be relatively easy to drill a bunch of holes in an AR barrel on some V-blocks in a drill press, thread a standard direct thread mount on backwards, and make a can with a baffle stack that sealed up against the gas block with an O-ring for thermal expansion/contraction.
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Ported barrels used to be really common, mostly because people didn't have the ability to machine so ported barrels wrapped in Chore boy with a sleeve over the top was the way to go. The science of sound/pressure and flow wasn't there either.

Reflex can's, while it sounds like a good idea, don't actually work well. You're better off with a well designed can.
 
Gatorgrizz27 said:
What’s the latest on the Form 1 cans? I thought they had basically shut that down as well, in addition to cracking down on the “solvent traps”.

Seems like it would be relatively easy to drill a bunch of holes in an AR barrel on some V-blocks in a drill press, thread a standard direct thread mount on backwards, and make a can with a baffle stack that sealed up against the gas block with an O-ring for thermal expansion/contraction.
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In December I got my approval for a form 1 can in 3 weeks. Parts are still out there, but nobody calls them solvent traps now.
 
rockmup said:
Reflex can's, while it sounds like a good idea, don't actually work well. You're better off with a well designed can.
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i think we should be very clear about what we are talking about here. Reflex cans, such as Ops Inc and now Allen Engineering cans,have been used for decades in military applications and work extremely well. i own an AEM5 and can attest to how great they sound. but they were designed to work that way with barrel profiling and two piece collar.

i dont think we should confuse a reflex can design with a homemade integral made with a drill press, steel wool, and a sleeve.

just my opinion.
 
Texas97 said:
i think we should be very clear about what we are talking about here. Reflex cans, such as Ops Inc and now Allen Engineering cans,have been used for decades in military applications and work extremely well. i own an AEM5 and can attest to how great they sound. but they were designed to work that way with barrel profiling and two piece collar.

i dont think we should confuse a reflex can design with a homemade integral made with a drill press, steel wool, and a sleeve.

just my opinion.
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We are talking about the same thing.

I have been around several Ops Inc reflexes, they imop, didn't sound all that great. I absolutely get the why of it. I don't remember them testing all that well either, (I'm looking to the metering spec's)
I've also been around several commercial demos, not impressed.
 
Gatorgrizz27 said:
What’s the latest on the Form 1 cans? I thought they had basically shut that down as well, in addition to cracking down on the “solvent traps”.

Seems like it would be relatively easy to drill a bunch of holes in an AR barrel on some V-blocks in a drill press, thread a standard direct thread mount on backwards, and make a can with a baffle stack that sealed up against the gas block with an O-ring for thermal expansion/contraction.
Click to expand...
I'm an 07/02, so form 1 doesn't matter to me. I have an idea of a plan, and a 12.5" bolt gun I'm stuck with thanks to these chucklefucks. So its getting the brace dropped and turned into a integral rifle.

But people are reporting the examiners wanting pictures or a bill of materials showing you are making from scratch. Apparently thing like bar stock, pic of a lathe, etc. Not sure how common it is anymore, solvent traps were already on the downswing when people realized the performance wasn't that great. The real headache for people was when they put all of them on hold, rather than asking for evidence first.
 
kf4zht said:
I'm an 07/02, so form 1 doesn't matter to me. I have an idea of a plan, and a 12.5" bolt gun I'm stuck with thanks to these chucklefucks. So its getting the brace dropped and turned into a integral rifle.

But people are reporting the examiners wanting pictures or a bill of materials showing you are making from scratch. Apparently thing like bar stock, pic of a lathe, etc. Not sure how common it is anymore, solvent traps were already on the downswing when people realized the performance wasn't that great. The real headache for people was when they put all of them on hold, rather than asking for evidence first.
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A screenshot of the yarde metal website sufficed. "I have no materials or plans, and do not plan to acquire any material until after my form 1 is approved. Material choice will be dependent on material availability after the form 1 is approved."
 
Gatorgrizz27 said:
So I’m now faced with the decision of whether or not to pin and weld cans on these guys to make them over 16” long, then throw stocks on them.
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what ever happened to those barrels that were like 8", but had a large diameter shroud welded to them to get the 16" while leaving the threads bare, so you could thread a can onto them inside the shroud

used to be really common on 10/22s
 
[486] said:
what ever happened to those barrels that were like 8", but had a large diameter shroud welded to them to get the 16" while leaving the threads bare, so you could thread a can onto them inside the shroud

used to be really common on 10/22s
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Its still a thing, just an obscure loophole.

Think a pinned and welded handguard on an AR would count?
 
unless you mean something like a freefloat tube welded to the upper
that might work if you had a fixed rifle stock, because then it'd be over 26" overall length despite the barrel being short, resulting in a "firearm" classification, but I'm not 100% on that

ETA: that might need a non-rifled barrel
 
its not a loophole, its just now part of the barrel. the barrel shroud is the length of the barrel, regardless of where the rifling ends.
 
Texas97 said:
pin to barrel extension, weld over pin hole with aluminum
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gas tube would need to be worked around
when doing oddball 'unicycle in no bicycle zone' shit, just seems easiest to follow what's commonly done...

Maybe a big 3/4 thread just behind the 1/2-28 muzzle thread, aluminum shroud to 16" length big enough to fit the can, blind pinned to the barrel
if you're chasing the aluminum weight savings rather than sticking with weldable steel
 
[486] said:
gas tube would need to be worked around
when doing oddball 'unicycle in no bicycle zone' shit, just seems easiest to follow what's commonly done...

Maybe a big 3/4 thread just behind the 1/2-28 muzzle thread, aluminum shroud to 16" length big enough to fit the can, blind pinned to the barrel
if you're chasing the aluminum weight savings rather than sticking with weldable steel
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I was thinking about the 9mm upper I just did, so no gas tube, but no barrel extension either. More playing the what-if game than being serious.

I agree with the 2nd part. Could also be skeletonized like an AR handguard for weight reasons
 
[486] said:
gas tube would need to be worked around
when doing oddball 'unicycle in no bicycle zone' shit, just seems easiest to follow what's commonly done...

Maybe a big 3/4 thread just behind the 1/2-28 muzzle thread, aluminum shroud to 16" length big enough to fit the can, blind pinned to the barrel
if you're chasing the aluminum weight savings rather than sticking with weldable steel
Click to expand...

well, as to the gas tube, you dont have to pin it at 12 oclock. anywhere else would be just fine.

the problem with any of this is not being able to remove something to fix an issue. you set it and it is what it is after that.
 
posford said:
I was thinking about the 9mm upper I just did, so no gas tube, but no barrel extension either. More playing the what-if game than being serious.

I agree with the 2nd part. Could also be skeletonized like an AR handguard for weight reasons
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wut?

your upper has threads that a barrel nut threads onto to hold the 9mm barrel in place. That would be your "pin and weld" point in this odd hypothetical. then your hand guard attaches to the barrel nut in some way. your pin would go through the handguard, barrel nut, and into the upper barrel extension threads. then aluminum weld over the hole and its now a permanently attached handgaurd/shroud that would be at 16.1 inches and your barrel could be at 4.5 inches or whatever.
 
Texas97 said:
wut?

your upper has threads that a barrel nut threads onto to hold the 9mm barrel in place. That would be your "pin and weld" point in this odd hypothetical. then your hand guard attaches to the barrel nut in some way. your pin would go through the handguard, barrel nut, and into the upper barrel extension threads. then aluminum weld over the hole and its now a permanently attached handgaurd/shroud that would be at 16.1 inches and your barrel could be at 4.5 inches or whatever.
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Probably thinking the wrong term, I thought barrel extension was the part of the barrel that had the feed ramp and the star pattern thing. 9mm barrel just drops in and torque the nut.

But yeah, drill through the handguard, barrel nut, and into the upper's threads, pin, weld.
 
Texas97 said:
well, as to the gas tube, you dont have to pin it at 12 oclock. anywhere else would be just fine.

the problem with any of this is not being able to remove something to fix an issue. you set it and it is what it is after that.
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that's what I mean, not that the tube would get in the way of the pin, but you'd need to stick the gas block and tube in between the barrel and handguard after the barrel and handguard conglomeration is attached to the rifle
 
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