Anyone know JCB telehandlers? Steering problems....

[grumpy356]

Nah just cut the rod off and put a new one on. $50 in chrome rod and a little lathe work. Easy job.

Super cool.

 

[BillyBronco]

He said he'd ship them to me along with that Lull if I wanted to buy it. Of course I'm considering that now. He said it runs and everything works, but has several hydraulic leaks. I may run down there next week and actually put my hands on this one. If it's only hoses or easy cylinders, I may jump on it.

That is the spirit! Can’t wait for version 2.0

 

[Dethmachinefab]

Usually if one starts leaking on an old machine, most others will follow. Even more so with something that has sat for a while.

I've noticed a few drips from my crane telescope cylinder. Not looking forward to pulling that out with all the chains, cables, boom and associated bits.

 

[grumpy356]

Usually if one starts leaking on an old machine, most others will follow. Even more so with something that has sat for a while.

I've noticed a few drips from my crane telescope cylinder. Not looking forward to pulling that out with all the chains, cables, boom and associated bits.

Truth!!!!

This is the 3rd cylinder I had repacked in a month. 1 to go!

 

[Muckin_Slusher]

I’m probably wrong but I was under the impression the little cylinder was used as pump to adjust the fork angle as it’s being raised up and down to keep the forks parallel with the ground.

I feel your pain I just rechrome rodded and sealed a cylinder for my mini loader today.

Yes.

Usually genie booms and telehandlers and jumbo drills all have auto-levelling via hydraulic cylinders instead of mechanical linkages because of the telescopic part making mechanical linkage complicated/impossible.

From my limited observations, it's usually a much smaller cylinder, and usually oriented very close to the pivots so the boom (unlike the actual lift cylinder which is mounted some distance from the pivots for mechanical advantage.

 

[bgaidan]

I’m probably wrong but I was under the impression the little cylinder was used as pump to adjust the fork angle as it’s being raised up and down to keep the forks parallel with the ground.

I feel your pain I just rechrome rodded and sealed a cylinder for my mini loader today.

Yes.

Usually genie booms and telehandlers and jumbo drills all have auto-levelling via hydraulic cylinders instead of mechanical linkages because of the telescopic part making mechanical linkage complicated/impossible.

From my limited observations, it's usually a much smaller cylinder, and usually oriented very close to the pivots so the boom (unlike the actual lift cylinder which is mounted some distance from the pivots for mechanical advantage.

So it's more like a passive thing? Main cylinder lifts the boom, which moves the fluid in the small cylinder to effectively move the tilt cylinder relative to the boom? Clever.

That would also explain why the carriage tilt bleeds down a bit if I leave it in the air when parked. I can probably minimize the leaking when parked by keep the carriage on the ground and taking pressure off the lines/cylinder.

Usually if one starts leaking on an old machine, most others will follow. Even more so with something that has sat for a while.

I've noticed a few drips from my crane telescope cylinder. Not looking forward to pulling that out with all the chains, cables, boom and associated bits.

You shut your whore mouth.







There's a tiny bit of weeping from the main lift cylinder, but not even enough to run down the side of the cylinder at this point. I have a pig mat stuff in the boom to see if I get anything from the extension cylinder. That's the one that would be the biggest pain in the ass....but not nearly as bad as the shit you have to tear apart to get to one in a crane boom.

If you haven't seen some of Cutting Edge Engineering's videos lately, he's rebuilding a rubber tire squirt boom crane and just got done tearing apart the boom. Looked lke it took a full day just for the teardown.

 

[Muckin_Slusher]

I guess they're called "compensation cylinders"

 

[Bebop]

Just popping in to say thanks for sharing the process bgaidan.
IDK anything about heavy equipment but I really enjoy reading about them !

Tons of super knowledgeable people in here.

 

[Steve300xcw]

If you haven't seen some of Cutting Edge Engineering's videos lately, he's rebuilding a rubber tire squirt boom crane and just got done tearing apart the boom. Looked lke it took a full day just for the teardown.

I'Ve had to change the hoses and shivs in the boom of a grown up sized gradall a few times. Its not a fun job

 

[bgaidan]

I guess they're called "compensation cylinders"

Interesting. I'm gonna have to look up the diagram to understand how it interacts with the valve when you manually tilt the carriage. I wonder if there's a valve or something that blocks off the compensation cylinder when you're tilting it via the controls.


Regardless, it's definitely leaking. I kept an eye on it today while I was doing other stuff and it's puking pretty good. Kind of wondering if I maybe hit it when I was pressure washing. I try to avoid hitting the seals with pressure, but I've had a similar thing happen on my old tractor....no leaks and then after I was it all of a sudden a bucket cylinder starts leaking.

I have a deliver coming in 3-4 weeks that I absolutely will need this machine for and I'm debating if I want to tackle it before that just in case it turns in to a more involved repair.



In other news, I threw the trans. pressure sensor in today and that made the light on the dash go away so I can at least say the engine and trans are relatively healthy.

 

[bgaidan]

Well the good news is seal kits for this thing are readily available and fairly cheap. The comp. cylinder is ~$55 and I might as well order one for the steer cylinder while I'm at it.

I can do all the cylinders on the machine for about $300. For now I'm just going to order the one for the comp. and probably the steer cylinder while I'm at it.

 

[bgaidan]

Ugg. I'm gonna fly to the UK and kick whoever designed the hydraulics in this thing right in the kant.

I had it down to one slightly weeping compensation cylinder, possibly slightly leaking steer cylinder and then a leak dripping from the rear of the chassis. It didn't seem bad at first, but turned it to a good pint or two on the ground every time I started and ran it for a few minutes. Then yesterday I used it for a good half hour straight and it probably dripped a good 2 quarts.

So I managed to actually track it down and see it actively dripping from this tee. It's the line for the tilt. Front of the tee comes from the valves, rear goes to the tilt cylinder and the top of the tee goes to the compensation cylinder.

I couldn't tell for sure what connection on the tee was actually leaking, so last night I pulled the rear hose off at the tee and capped both, and then started it up and ran the valve to put full pressure to the line and couldn't see an active leak. I left it overnight with a clean rag under it and found no drips today. So I put it back together tonight and still have a slow drip. Though I think it's much slower than before. The problem is that it's next to impossible to get a wrench on the tee and on the fitting to really tighten it down. And it seems like the BSP fittings need some extra gronk to not leak. So I just ordered a 1-1/6" crows foot wrench....thinking maybe that'll give me the angle and leverage I need to get that list little bit of a turn on it to get it to seal. It's either that or the fittings are just fucked up enough to not work with each other, but managed to seal with the new cap and plug I tested them with.

 

[CarterKraft]

Ugg. I'm gonna fly to the UK and kick whoever designed the hydraulics in this thing right in the kant.

I had it down to one slightly weeping compensation cylinder, possibly slightly leaking steer cylinder and then a leak dripping from the rear of the chassis. It didn't seem bad at first, but turned it to a good pint or two on the ground every time I started and ran it for a few minutes. Then yesterday I used it for a good half hour straight and it probably dripped a good 2 quarts.

So I managed to actually track it down and see it actively dripping from this tee. It's the line for the tilt. Front of the tee comes from the valves, rear goes to the tilt cylinder and the top of the tee goes to the compensation cylinder.

I couldn't tell for sure what connection on the tee was actually leaking, so last night I pulled the rear hose off at the tee and capped both, and then started it up and ran the valve to put full pressure to the line and couldn't see an active leak. I left it overnight with a clean rag under it and found no drips today. So I put it back together tonight and still have a slow drip. Though I think it's much slower than before. The problem is that it's next to impossible to get a wrench on the tee and on the fitting to really tighten it down. And it seems like the BSP fittings need some extra gronk to not leak. So I just ordered a 1-1/6" crows foot wrench....thinking maybe that'll give me the angle and leverage I need to get that list little bit of a turn on it to get it to seal. It's either that or the fittings are just fucked up enough to not work with each other, but managed to seal with the new cap and plug I tested them with.

Might not be available on bsp but they make "crush" washers to repair damaged jic fittings.

 

[bgaidan]

Might not be available on bsp but they make "crush" washers to repair damaged jic fittings.

I'm not seeing anything like that in a quick search.

I think it just needs another 1/16 turn to seal it down, just can't get the leverage on it trying to reach through that little access hole with two wrenches. Hoping the crows foot will do the trick.

 

[Muckin_Slusher]

Did you buy a regular crowsfoot or flarenut one?

 

[bgaidan]

Did you buy a regular crowsfoot or flarenut one?

Straight so I can put it around the body of the tee. I can get an open end wrench on the nut but it's really difficult to bet both hands in there and turn two wrenches. Hoping the crows foot with an extension will give me a little room to work.

 

[bgaidan]

Well, I think that may have done the trick. I couldn't even feel any discernable turn when I cranked on it, but I threw another pad under it after and left it for a few hours and no drips. And the carriage also hadn't tilted down on its own like it had been doing, which I correctly suspected was a symptom of this leak.


But for more bad news, it does look like the boom extension cylinder is leaking a bit too. I stuffed another pad in there and will watch it to see how bad it actually is. Not really looking forward to doing that one, bat least this is only a single stage boom with no chains. I'll probably go ahead an order the seal kit when I get the one for the compensation cylinder.

 

[bgaidan]

So with the mechanical shit mostly squared away, my next task is to make a skid steer style quick attach for this thing. It seems this particular machine has a smaller version of the JCB q-fit that was only used on the smallest of the telehandlers. The bigger handlers apparently use the same system as their loaders as well as some other brands of machines so there are a lot more options out there. I've only found one company that makes the weld-on plates and two that make a full adapter.

There's a place in PA that has one for $1400. I figure after tax and freight, I'd be looking at $1800+. I little too rich considering what I paid for the machine. I do like that they maintain the center bearing plate on this. Most of the others I've seen don't and only rely on the q-fit brackets.

Or I can but just the plates on ebay for about $450. Then another $80 for the SSQA plates and I already have enough scrap steel around to make the rest. Pretty price for a couple chunks of 1" though.

I did find a dimensional drawing from UK site. I could hit up the scrap yard and see if I can find a couple chunks of 1" plate and contour these out on the CNC. They're about 8" x 20", which I can probably find, but that would also be a hell of a lot of machine time and wear and tear.

I'm still looking, but I haven't found anyone locally with a cnc plasma that can handle something this size.



What I don't love about reusing the factory carriage is this center bar sits about 2" proud of the main side plates. Ideally I'd want to just weld the adapter frame straight to the side plates, but I think this would force me to space it out more, which may not be ideal.

I should probably pull the forks off and mock it up with some tube and plate to see where I would actually end up.


If I go the route of just modifying the existing carriage, I'll wait until after I get a big delivery I'm expecting later in May. Can't risk fucking something up and being without a machine. Plus I'd still need to source a skid steer fork carriage that doesn't cost a grand.

 

[Muckin_Slusher]

Don't understand your issue with the factory carriage.

More pics and different angles please.

 

[bgaidan]

Don't understand your issue with the factory carriage.

More pics and different angles please.

Less shitty pic.

Basically the flat face closest to you in the pic is the q-fit plate that's on both sides and ideally where you'd weld the adapter brackets and put most of the load. The plate in the middle sticks out several inches further. I may just need to mock it up. I was originally thinking running some heavy square tube from side plate to side plate, but it might just be that I need to incorporate that middle plate and run the tube from each side plate in to that and it's face will control everything.


I also just have a general aversion to modifying stuff that's like this and prefer to have a complete separate part just so it can be returned back to original.....even though nobody will ever give a fuck on this clapped out machine.

 

[bgaidan]

It actually looks like a piece of 2x2 tube would fit perfectly. And depending how much I have to space the adapter plates to give clearance for the handles, this may not matter at all.

 

[Duc]

Or I can but just the plates on ebay for about $450. Then another $80 for the SSQA plates and I already have enough scrap steel around to make the rest. Pretty price for a couple chunks of 1" though.

I did find a dimensional drawing from UK site. I could hit up the scrap yard and see if I can find a couple chunks of 1" plate and contour these out on the CNC. They're about 8" x 20", which I can probably find, but that would also be a hell of a lot of machine time and wear and tear.

I'm still looking, but I haven't found anyone locally with a cnc plasma that can handle something this size.

I would run a perimeter cut using a 3/8 end mill at 30 IPM and .060in ramp step down. No reason to push it hard for a home project. Check Haas tooling but I believe the endmill will run about $30-40. Maybe a 1/2 end mill since its 1in plate but still not bad.

 

[IGT]

I always squeal when I spend money on high price attachments but a year later I have already forgotten about it and glad of the quality.

I bought a cheap set of forks used from a friend, $500. They were fine building a house but the then I started carrying logs and the next thing I know one fork is bent.

Now I have a $1200 set of forks and they won’t bend on heavy oak logs.

How much is your machine rated to lift?

 

[bgaidan]

I always squeal when I spend money on high price attachments but a year later I have already forgotten about it and glad of the quality.

I bought a cheap set of forks used from a friend, $500. They were fine building a house but the then I started carrying logs and the next thing I know one fork is bent.

Now I have a $1200 set of forks and they won’t bend on heavy oak logs.

How much is your machine rated to lift?

It's only good for 4,400 lbs. I already have several sets of class 2 forks in various lengths for my other machines, just need to find the attachment without forks. All the attachment dealers here seem to only sell them in sets and want a minimum of $1k.

 

[Muckin_Slusher]

I see now.

The middle bump is behind the plane of the fork verticals.

It's probably worth getting the big 1 inch pieces cut, even if it costs you.

You could always cut them out of whatever steel is within your capacity, then make metal plywood. Probably stronger that way too.
It's not rocket surgery, you could even hand bomb them (make plywood templates to trace with the plasma). Then massage with the grinder until it fits nice.

 

[bgaidan]

I would run a perimeter cut using a 3/8 end mill at 30 IPM and .060in ramp step down. No reason to push it hard for a home project. Check Haas tooling but I believe the endmill will run about $30-40. Maybe a 1/2 end mill since its 1in plate but still not bad.

If I had the damn Fadal back together, this would probably be perfect for that. Of course it's just outside the capacity of the Bridgeport and I'd probably have to run half the speed.

I see now.

The middle bump is behind the plane of the fork verticals.

It's probably worth getting the big 1 inch pieces cut, even if it costs you.

You could always cut them out of whatever steel is within your capacity, then make metal plywood. Probably stronger that way too.
It's not rocket surgery, you could even hand bomb them (make plywood templates to trace with the plasma). Then massage with the grinder until it fits nice.

Yeah, it may not be as big a problem as I initially thought. The QA plates would have to be pushed out away from mounting surface anyway to give clearance for the locking handles. When I built the one for my tractor, I had to use 2" tubing to get it out far enough.

And looking at the few ready made adapters that are available for it, they all extend it out a big.

I like this on the best because they add that center bearing plate like the original carriage has. In my mind, that's taking a good deal of the load off the pins and putting it directly in to the center forging on the boom assembly, which is a good thing.

This one is actually the simplest design and one I hadn't found before. Gonna reach out and get a price from them....but they're in Wisconsin so the freight will probably make up for any cost savings on the adapter itself.

 

[Muckin_Slusher]

If I had the damn Fadal back together, this would probably be perfect for that. Of course it's just outside the capacity of the Bridgeport and I'd probably have to run half the speed.




Yeah, it may not be as big a problem as I initially thought. The QA plates would have to be pushed out away from mounting surface anyway to give clearance for the locking handles. When I built the one for my tractor, I had to use 2" tubing to get it out far enough.

And looking at the few ready made adapters that are available for it, they all extend it out a big.

View attachment 84910

I don't know what happened to my post???

Anyway, you might be able to make a simpler Q/A mechanism. Could build a simpler design that doesn't use the over-center levers and springs.

I'm thinking of something simpler, along the lines of how this coupler eliminates and simplifies all the complicated parts of a hitch. Obviously it could be more hassle to install/remove attachments...

Could be as simple as a couple pieces of tube that gets solid bars dropped in (with tapered ends) and retained by a bolt or pin.

 

[arse_sidewards]

The whole point of SSQA is that everything else uses SSQA. Making your own home brew solution that nothing uses is a massive waste of time and material.

 

[Dethmachinefab]

Getting them plasma cut will leave you some taper to deal with. I can burn 1" if I got a dxf and it fits in a flat rate. Probably best to drill the hole.

 

[bgaidan]

Getting them plasma cut will leave you some taper to deal with. I can burn 1" if I got a dxf and it fits in a flat rate. Probably best to drill the hole.

PM inbound.

I could easily bore the holes on the CNC. No problem there.


The the plates would be roughly 7.5x22. They'd fit in the old flate rate game board boxes, which have been discontinued by USPS but I still have a stack of them and they'll still let you ship in them. Probably need to ship in two heavily reinforced boxes due to weight, but it'd be doable.

Other option since I'd probably back them with a piece of 1" flat bar like this would be to just make the upper and lower portions of the mount separate and then weld them to the plate separately so they could fit in a smaller box. There really wouldn't be any effect on the overall strength as long as they were welded decently. Especially since this thing is only rated for 4.4k lbs.