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Any reason not to use exhaust flanges in a steam heating system?

arse_sidewards

arse_sidewards

Red Skull Member
Joined
May 19, 2020
Member Number
71
Messages
8,503
I'm gonna do some work on the steam system in my house. Don't really feel like doing threaded joints on all the 2"+ stuff expecally since it constrains the order in which I can assemble/disassemble things. Is there any reason I can't just use three bolt exhaust flanges with paper gaskets and the blue goop from Home Depot? I've used that method successfully on coolant systems that run 14-20psi and this runs 0-3psi.
 
I would be concerned about the constant expansion and contraction of the piping. It'll be going from 60 deg to 212 many times a day as the boiler cycles on and off. Pretty sure you can get some type of weld on pipe flange or union that would be more practical.
 
I'd use threaded unions, they DGAF what order they go together or come apart in.
 
Muckin_Slusher said:
You have actual steam heat in your house? Cool.

Is that common?

Either way tell us more.
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Not common but not uncommon around here. It was the standard for about 60yr. Most get converted to hot water over the years for the extra efficiency. I like it in principal but my system was installed with zero regard for making the basement a useful space so there's pipes in all sorts of dumb places.

Tizken said:
I would be concerned about the constant expansion and contraction of the piping. It'll be going from 60 deg to 212 many times a day as the boiler cycles on and off. Pretty sure you can get some type of weld on pipe flange or union that would be more practical.
Click to expand...

I can get weld on pipe flanges but they're expensive as fuck. My system cycles about five times a day. Also it never goes a full 60-212. By the time everything has cooled down to lukewarm it's time for the boiler to run again. The main manifold is 2". I want to replace the entire manifold with something that isn't a massive waste of space and at the same time I want to make it a simple log instead of an unnecessary loop. I'm going to weld pipe nipples onto the 2" manifold and then thread unions on there as connection points for all the various radiators. In order to clear a doorway I need to have the manifold step up at one end. I want to make that joint flanged for ease of assembly because I would really rather not weld this thing in place. I could use a union there but the two unions I have I am banking on using for the downpipe to the boiler. Also a union is three leak points and a flange is one.


Lil said:
Maybe weld an extender in the pipe so that it limits exposure?
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What?
 
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I've done a few that I switched all to copper, Expensive but a forever fix.
 
Make sure your taking condensate drainage into consideration also while reworking piping.
 
I'm hesitant to use V-band flanges because I don't trust the spring action of the Vs to hold a bunch of hard mounted sch40 piping together. If it was a rubber mounted vehicle exhaust system then sure

4-bolt flanges are used the world over for piping of about the size I'm dealing with including on very high pressure steam systems. Losing one bolt on a system that sees 2psi on a bad day should be fine. Or at least that's how I see it.

If anyone has a reason that this is not a good idea that can back up with facts then I am all ears.

Assholes from Commiefornia with Toyota in their name want to project stupidity can fuck right off.
 
Tizken said:
Make sure your taking condensate drainage into consideration also while reworking piping.
Click to expand...

Yup. Single pipe systems really constrain your plumbing options that way. Gotta pick and choose your runs carefully to ensure it all gets back to the boiler.
 
Pocahontas said:
I've done a few that I switched all to copper, Expensive but a forever fix.
Click to expand...

What size houses and what size did you use for the mains?

I figure that considering how long the current system lasted (and it's by no means at end of life, just plumbed in stupid places) I'm either gonna be fucking with it a lot in my 80s or it's gonna outlive me.
 
2500 sq feet built in 1910s, not sure if pipe was original but it was at least 50 years old, my family has owned it since the 60s. I believe it was 2 or 2.5 copper, one of the pipes burst in the ceiling when house was unoccupied so got to completely gut and redo all the plumbing and electrical. House was always warm though even with no insulation and had a brand new boiler in last 5 years, why i choose to stay with it vs going mini splits or a traditional forced air system.

Its not a huge deal if you plan it out to use unions and realistically its a 100+ year fix. For the peace of mind with a family member moving in it was worth it to me.
 
Pocahontas said:
2500 sq feet built in 1910s, not sure if pipe was original but it was at least 50 years old, my family has owned it since the 60s. I believe it was 2 or 2.5 copper, one of the pipes burst in the ceiling when house was unoccupied so got to completely gut and redo all the plumbing and electrical. House was always warm though even with no insulation and had a brand new boiler in last 5 years, why i choose to stay with it vs going mini splits or a traditional forced air system.

Its not a huge deal if you plan it out to use unions and realistically its a 100+ year fix. For the peace of mind with a family member moving in it was worth it to me.
Click to expand...

Well that makes me feel better about a 2.5" main in a 1500ft^2 house

I never have a problem keeping the house warm (but I still keep it super cold because money) and my walls are insulated but I want to up-size the upstairs radiators and add a few more downstairs just so that the boiler is the bottleneck and I can raise the house temp super fast in the AM.
 
Give it a go, might be a huge pain to get them lined back up again if you ever do take them apart for service, as they gotta be flat to eachother where the pipe union has a couple degrees of mislaignment where it'll still ball socket together
 
Imo with an old system like that you can oversize the rads but they don't really heat up fast/cool down fast as long as the windows are closed. Ours had no insulation at all and it would still burn you out if it got unexpectedly warm in the spring/winter for a few days, would have windows open with snow on the ground...

With trying to vary the heat I don't work on a ton of them but imo on a system as old school as that i would leave it at 68 or whatever you set it at and forget about it, kind of tripping over a dollar to save a dime imo(all of them are naturalgas around here however), but the vast majority of the houses I see it in have little to no insulation, so may be different for your house.
 
Pocahontas said:
Imo with an old system like that you can oversize the rads but they don't really heat up fast/cool down fast as long as the windows are closed. Ours had no insulation at all and it would still burn you out if it got unexpectedly warm in the spring/winter for a few days, would have windows open with snow on the ground...

With trying to vary the heat I don't work on a ton of them but imo on a system as old school as that i would leave it at 68 or whatever you set it at and forget about it, kind of tripping over a dollar to save a dime imo(all of them are naturalgas around here however), but the vast majority of the houses I see it in have little to no insulation, so may be different for your house.
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68? Do you light your cigars with a $100 bill?

I set it to 50 at night (though it never goes below 55) and when the girlfriend complains I set it to 60. When there's company I set it to 66. :laughing:

I'm actually converting to natural gas in the near future. Way better to just pay an inflated monthly bill than to get hit with several hundred dollars to fill a tank every three months
 
arse_sidewards said:
I'm actually converting to natural gas in the near future. Way better to just pay an inflated monthly bill than to get hit with several hundred dollars to fill a tank every three months
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cost per BTU on NG is like half, around here at least
takes an awful large "service fee" to eat up that kind of savings
 
arse_sidewards said:
68? Do you light your cigars with a $100 bill?

I set it to 50 at night (though it never goes below 55) and when the girlfriend complains I set it to 60. When there's company I set it to 66. :laughing:

I'm actually converting to natural gas in the near future. Way better to just pay an inflated monthly bill than to get hit with several hundred dollars to fill a tank every three months
Click to expand...

My ng bill never goes over 100 unless its in the negatives for a month and we have ng everything but ac.

I like it cold but wife likes it hot. I would have it set to 65 year round if it was up to me, can always put clothes on but you can only take off so much.

Ng is by far cheapest per btu unit of energy besides fire wood and thats more a sweat equity thing. Only downside is getting connected around here usually starts around 10k and that's assuming it runs down the street. I've have seen bills well over 100k when they have to run it a little ways...
 
[486 said:
;n137188]

cost per BTU on NG is like half, around here at least
takes an awful large "service fee" to eat up that kind of savings
Click to expand...

I meant like gas might add $50 to my bill every month I have the heat on vs oil is like $300 every 3mo for a tank fill (just pulling these numbers out of my ass, they're in the ballpark). Yeah NG is way cheaper but the "pay as you go" vs lump sum is what I'm after and it also frees up an oil tank worth of real-estate in my tiny machine shop so it's a no brainer. I already have NG service to my house.


Pocahontas said:
My ng bill never goes over 100 unless its in the negatives for a month and we have ng everything but ac.

I like it cold but wife likes it hot. I would have it set to 65 year round if it was up to me, can always put clothes on but you can only take off so much.

Ng is by far cheapest per btu unit of energy besides fire wood and thats more a sweat equity thing. Only downside is getting connected around here usually starts around 10k and that's assuming it runs down the street. I've have seen bills well over 100k when they have to run it a little ways...
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Funny you mention that. I like it cold (because I pay) and she likes it hot. The longer term plan is to install a wood stove in the downstairs and then drag home tons of free pallets (there is more or less an unlimited supply of those in my area and once you cut the two big pieces of wood out of them you're left with a bunch of stove sized slats) cut them up, set the thermostat on ~60 and let her use the stove if she wants it hotter than that.
 
arse_sidewards said:
. I want to replace the entire manifold with something that isn't a massive waste of space and at the same time I want to make it a simple log instead of an unnecessary loop. I'm going to weld pipe nipples onto the 2" manifold and then thread unions on there as connection points for all the various radiators. In order to clear a doorway I need to have the manifold step up at one end. I want to make that joint flanged for ease of assembly because I would really rather not weld this thing in place. I could use a union there but the two unions I have I am banking on using for the downpipe to the boiler. Also a union is three leak points and a flange is one.
Click to expand...

I'm no steam fitter, but read plenty of stories from old steam guys on the antique forums writing tomes about why certain things are done in a steam system, you ever consider that being a steam system those loops and drops are there for a good reason and not a simple manifold?

Alex.
 
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