What's new

Any Pakistani machinists about?

ThePanzerFuhrer

The Rock Breaker God
Joined
May 19, 2020
Member Number
84
Messages
2,547
Loc
Wi
I stopped by my 92 yo neighbor this afternoon to rent a conveyor from him. He was working on his 644h loader. The damper got loose on the snout of the crank broke the key and marred the crank up. It isn’t too bad just wrecked the key slot and then spun a bit and marred the fit up.

Pulling engine and taking crank out is out of the question. That would cost more than machine is worth. He was talking about buying new damper filling low spots with epoxy and saying fuck it.

My question is can I put a bit of weld on the crank to rebuild the key slot. I feel if I can anchor the key good it would be good for a long while. I got volunteered to help him with this project lol.

My plan is weld up key way file it to fit tight. If that goes good weld up buggered shaft. File it down, and use new pulley and use Dykem to get the fit right between pulley and crank.

I know it’s half assed but I have done stupider that lasted forever. What says the IBB? Can I weld to a crank and expect it to hold? I’ll try and get some pictures tonight after supper.
 
Cast or forged?

How about MIG brazing wire?

How hard to replace is the crank seal if you burn it up?

A Dremel/Foredom with 3/4" cutoffs would recut the slot nicely, if you take your time.

I assume by "epoxy" he meant JB Weld?

Y U no pics?
 
I'm not Pakistani but I did something similar on a kingpin for a little Yanmar 4x4 tractor. The kingpin keyway was all wallowed out allowing the steering arm to move quite a bit on it. The toe in and toe out would change drastically when moving due to it. Someone had tried to repair it before by booger welding the key to the kingpin and then grinding it down. I got some new key stock in the correct size, welded up each side and then took a die grinder with carbide bit to "machine" the keyway out. Took a couple tries and I had a nice tight fit with the key in the kingpin and the arm on.
 
Cast or forged?

How about MIG brazing wire?

How hard to replace is the crank seal if you burn it up?

A Dremel/Foredom with 3/4" cutoffs would recut the slot nicely, if you take your time.

I assume by "epoxy" he meant JB Weld?

Y U no pics?

Not sure on crank. I didn’t have a grinder handy to do a spark test.

seal is a good 3/4” away so I’m confident I would not wreck that. Plan would be to use my little 120v mig to slowly rebuild the surface.

Neighbor was the one mentioning the jb weld. I’m not a fan of the stuff.

I spent 45mins there helping to pull it apart and needed to scram and pick up some new screens for tomorrow. Once I stop over there I have a hard time leaving. Another neighbor showed up and gave me the window to bail. Hence the no pictures ;(
 
I once redid the keyway on a boogered up 350 Crank with a Dremel, and I had to retap the bolthole bigger too. Last I heard it was still working which was a couple years later. I did use a different Harmonic Balancer because that is what probably caused the problem, someone put a non balanced 350 Damper on a externally balanced 400 Crank. If it's easy to get to with a welder I'd weld it with a quickness if that would help with making a good keyway. Can you put a big ole fat keyway and key in there?:smokin:
 
File down the high spots, put the key in, Weld the key in on the damaged side, there should be a valley there. Lightly grind till the damper will go back on. I would TIG it if at all possible. That little mig will not have the heat to make it stick.
 
If it's a zero-balance damper, use a cutoff wheel to "machine" a new keyway slot 180 degrees off on the crank. I've done that to a few shafts that blew the keyway and orientation didn't matter.
 
Chisel (Key way chisel) the slot wider and broach the damper to fit the wider key.
 
If it's a zero-balance damper, use a cutoff wheel to "machine" a new keyway slot 180 degrees off on the crank. I've done that to a few shafts that blew the keyway and orientation didn't matter.

I would think it’s neutral being on a straight 6 as they are naturally balanced.

Lol how many dermel cutoff wheels will it take to cut a 1/4” wide woodruff key in a crank? If I cut a new key I prolly could get away with filling old key with jb weld.

We have tons of imposter Pakistani machinists here. Maybe that’s why I enjoy this place so much!
 
Chisel (Key way chisel) the slot wider and broach the damper to fit the wider key.

Another good option. I could also male a bastard key way to fit whatever the crank slit turns out to be and what the damper is. I do have a big broach set and milling machines.
 
You can also make a step key. On side fits the damper other side fits the crank.
 
Can you drill/tap the pull for set screws. If so put it back on, transfer the holes to the shaft, spot drill the dimples in place, lock tight set screws in place. Could be a quick easy fix.
 
Chisel (Key way chisel) the slot wider and broach the damper to fit the wider key.

Interesting.

https://toolmonger.com/2009/09/10/get-out-of-a-bind-with-a-cape-chisel/

https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/cape-chisels-keyways-hows-done-242227/

A story goes with this. When I was an apprentice working on the warterfront I was given the job of dismantling dozen large deck winches to send the drum shafts to the shop. They neded a keyway to mount a gypsy drum on the bare extension. I forget the shaft size maybe 4" or so. This involved a lot of disassembly, removing the level wind, brake, jaw clutch and linkage, opening the transmission, etc shipping the shaft, storing the parts on a busy deck for maybe a month, keeping the open machinery safe from debris, FOD, weather, etc. It was a couple of weeks of work for me and the first year guy assigned me. I recalled a yarn an old fart told me and asked the boss If I couid hand chisel the keyway. He questioned me closely and then said said sure but cut it a size under and show me. He exchanged a wink with his desk sergent and material man.

So we, my apprentice and I (also an apprentice) gathered the the means and went to work. I laid out the keyway margins using the Starrett thingys you clamp on the scale of your combo square and we set to work first hacksawing down the side, bay flexing (local term for grinding with an angle grinder) a keyway sized flat, We stop drilled the length to depth, kerf cut the waste to depth at the accessible end, tapering the cut to the end of the seat, square cut chiseled from there, then continued with files (spoon shaped rifflers were available from the tool room.) we scraped the sides to blue in with an undersize key, and dressed the bottom the remove the ugly. The end we treated like it was endmilled. In the end we came up with a nice clean keyseat. It took a full day but it was not nearly the ornerous task the old timer made it out to be.

The boss approved so we hand cut them all. We got a lot of tourists and suggestions. The dozen winches took maybe ten work days. My apprentice had school week so I finished on my own which slowed progress.

I was a hero for an hour, then I was put to de-slushing elevator rails and inspecting them for defects - one of the dirtiest jobs ever. No glory last forever.

Anyway we use a variety of chisels and we had a grinder right there to keep them tuned up. Most of the chisels we used were side cutting that is beveled from one side but the oither was slightly rockered. You had to dip in and out of the cut as you went along. We used a light scaleing gun to drive them. Hand chiseling with a hammer was a huge PITA but we did it when we were cleaning out corners, and going for the final bits before filing and scraping.

Most of the chisel types we used were in the Starrett set once sold in a fitted wood container. We modded cape point gun chisels to suit.

BTW, we had to hold sides and bottom parallel to the shaft axis. How did we do it? Do you think a surface plate held against the bottom of the shaft with a couple of screw jacks may have helped? Surface gage? A little tool maker"s knee? A Starrett indicator kit?

Some reference material:

http://www.osh.govt.nz/order/catalog...oldchisels.pdf

http://www.ebay.com/csc/i.html?_nkw=....c0.m270.l1313

http://chestofbooks.com/crafts/popul...hisels-308.png Misc cold chisel configs

http://www.roseantiquetools.com/index.html Interesting site for antique tool people. LOTS of catalog downloads.

The machinst trade descends from a branch of blacksmithing where metal is worked cold with chisels. The chisel types and styles were probably borrowed from stone masonry and carving. The process of shaping metal cold was so laborious it was early mechanized and from that the machinist trade and all its distributary trades and ativities were born.

When I served my time we had a separate trade "chipper" who worked with air hammers and chisels for weld gouging, caulking, etc. A good chipper was a noisy beast but highly skilled. I knew of one who over a period of years sculpted the White Rock Fairy from a block of steel using a set of five chisels he kept with him. "Hey, Jim, how's the statue going" and he'd dig out a roll of oiled rages and reveal a fist sized soon to be breathtaking work of art; a realization of the White Rock logo art.

http://www.whiterockbeverages.com/

A good chipper could split off rusted nuts quicker than you could wrench and methyl salycilate them and never damage the stud.

Cape chisel is only part of the chisel collection required to do this right. You also need side chisels (bottom is flat with the edge ground only on one side for cutting vertically). I haven't done keyways, but I have used cape, round nose and diamond point chisels for cleaning up O ring grooves in housings after brazing up cracked or broken out sections. I substituted a bottom chisel for the side chisels (bottom chisel is same idea as a side chisel, but has a 30 degree bend about 1" back from the cutting edge so you can get in the bottom of a pocket to plane it smooth).
 
As usually McMaster-Carr has cape chisels
 
Well, fuck it, speaking of Pakistani Machinists....what was the name of the guy who made Sceep's "SOB" tailgate. Ekansi, Ekansky, whatever....

Anyone heard from him in the last decade?

Links to the awesome stuff he posted?
 
Well, fuck it, speaking of Pakistani Machinists....what was the name of the guy who made Sceep's "SOB" tailgate. Ekansi, Ekansky, whatever....

Anyone heard from him in the last decade?

Links to the awesome stuff he posted?

friends with him on facespace, he regularly post pictures of birds and other stuff from day to day life
 
Now, I'm curious about making a key out of copper, and essentially a copper speedie sleeve. Then use a mig welder to essentially "cast" the filler back in.
 
Now, I'm curious about making a key out of copper, and essentially a copper speedie sleeve. Then use a mig welder to essentially "cast" the filler back in.

Just like using it as a backer bar. Should work well enough to dremel!
 
Friend did a key out of soapstone and welded right up to it then carved the soapstone out. I think a chunk of carbon arc rod would work also.
 
I was thinking along those lines too, with a slightly undersized brass key and MIG filler...

I wonder if you could start the engine and use it as a lathe to cut the filler back down, maybe w a stationary grinder?
 
I concur with the "make a key out of something you can't weld" suggestion.

Also, don't use a fucking 120v mig. It won't have enough power to do the job well the first time. If you were working on a clean perfectly beveled edge in a shop it would be fine but you're not.
 
If you're gonna weld right next to the seal, put a piece of place down to protect the seal...

I'd punch it out to match the size of the crank though.
 
Here is a picture of the animal. Old timer is gonna order a new balancer and key. Once they get here we’ll formulate a plan.

E8A1DD4B-A705-4304-8A52-FA0D4C8419CE.jpeg
 
Here is a picture of the animal. Old timer is gonna order a new balancer and key. Once they get here we’ll formulate a plan.



That's pretty fucked looking.

Assuming the engine rotates clockwise you could drill and tap it for a left hand bolt then mill out a lock plate that bolts into the balancer and keeps the crank bolt and balancer from spinning relative to each other. Right hand rotation plus the drag of whatever is driven off the crank should make the crank bolt stay nice and tight.
 
It is just what the picture shows the other 75% is perfect. The damper came loose and rattled the key way to fuck lol. The old timer is working on a Hail Mary as a local heavy equipment guys installed that motor a year ago and seeing if they are gonna fix it for him. I have my doubts but stranger shit has happened.
 
Tack tack tack, grind grind grind. Probably use a belt file for the final grinding to get it as smooth as possible. Is it possible to run the engine for short periods while grinding to round it out, or will it sling oil out of there like crazy? Then a die grinder and carbide burr to cut the keyway back in.

Or if you have room in the balancer bore it out to a bigger size, make yourself a thick wall sleeve to fit over the damaged snout to bring it up to slightly less than the shoulder where the seal runs. Weld up the bad area of the snout and round it out decently, apply a nice layer of JB weld or green loctite sleeve retainer and then slip your new repair sleeve with keyway machined into it on there and then bore out your balancer and broach a new keyway in it.
 
Top Back Refresh