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If the barrel of the wheel is .030" smaller than the ID of the tire bead, the tire could be off-center by .030". Upon assembly, the tire gets clamped .030" off-center, and you have .060" runout.
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That is a lot harder said then done. I dread tearing them down just to get the dyna beads out. By rights, I should tear them down and put the dyna beads in the tire and try that first. ugggg!
If the barrel of the wheel is .030" smaller than the ID of the tire bead, the tire could be off-center by .030". Upon assembly, the tire gets clamped .030" off-center, and you have .060" runout.
On huge tires, 30 thou. of clearance seems believable. But on huge tires, .060" of runout seems believable. Hell, I had a set of Goodyear 35s that were way dafook out of round (FU Goodyear
I'm not saying Goodyear fucks up all big tires, not hardly. Just saying I know they can fuck up roundness on "puny" 35s, so runout on jumbo meats is a possibility.
Can you drop the PSI to get them flatter?
If / when you do that, I'd measure from the tire's bead surface ID to the witness mark of the rim clamping the tire, at ~12 locations (think clock face) to estimate how much decentering was contributing to runout issues. Disclaimer: I'm a bit obsessed w/ root cause determination on tire issues after fighting balance & runout to unfuck a death wobble shituation.
Was the tires the cause of your death wobble? My truck has kind of a weak death wobble feel. I was wondering if it’s death wobble that can’t really develope because of full hydro.
12-28-2013, 11:09 PM
The 2007 Tacoma was my first time phookin' around with airsoft balancing, and I went back to traditional balancing when I sold it.
I put 10 oz. of .20 gram airsoft pellets/beads/BBs in each of the 255/85R16 (~33.5x10.5-16) BFG MT KM tires on the Taco.
.
1. 20% of the time, it was PERFECT!
2. 20% of the time, it was HORRIBLE!
3. 60% of the time, it was OK
A little insight into how the BBs act:
The BBs fall down inside the tire until about 25-30 MPH, where they transition to staying spread out against the inside of the tread.
The BBs stay flung out against the inside of the tread until you come to a stop (or close to it).
If I hit the transition speed in the Taco while going through a corner (like a curved freeway on-ramp), I would have a horribly unbalanced tire.
Occasionally, the beads would not redistribute properly after hitting an odd bump on the freeway and I would have a horribly unbalanced tire.
Either of the two scenarios above would require me to pull over and stop to regain good balance, unless I lucked out and hit a bump right to clear it up.
On the Jeep, I put 8 oz. of .20 gram BBs and 6 oz. of propylene glycol inside when I mounted the tires on the beadlocks.
Later, while resolving death wobble and shimmy issues, I added 8 oz. of distilled water through the valve stems.
This brought me up to 22 oz. of dynamic balancing media in each tire, and the last 8 oz. did not make a huge difference.
1. 20% of the time, it is GOOD to perfect
2. 20% of the time, it is BAD (but not horrible)
3. 60% of the time, it is OK to good
The addition of propylene glycol got rid of the Taco's problem of the beads requiring a ridiculous level of intervention on my part to get unfooked sometimes.
I do not worry about the transition point with my current setup, so the glycol is an effective lubricant (and anti-freeze).
However, the BBs have a worse axial imbalance on average in the 12.5" tires on 10" rims on my JK than they did in the 10.5" on 8" rims on the Taco.
In summary:
This coming week, I plan to pull the tires, vacuum and clean out all of the balancing media, and check the rims for axial and radial runout.
- Adding lube to the BBs totally helps them correct for any RADIAL imbalance more quickly and accurately.
- Narrower rims and tires are the only way to minimize AXIAL imbalance - the BBs cannot compensate for that.
- A tall, narrow tire on a narrow rim would probably balance almost perfectly using BBs, glycol, and water.
- Dynamic media balancing is great a lot of the time, but not all of the time, and sometimes it just sucks.
I believe that Trail Ready did a good job but I never checked the rims for machining accuracy, so it's time to verify that TR earned the faith I have in them.
If and when the rims pass my inspection, I will reassemble the tires and static balance them using a bubble balancer and tape weights.
I know that my MTR/Ks have some radial runout, and I changed rims when the tires had 15k on them, so they bring a bit to the shimmy party.
However, I had no major problems before I moved the tires over to my beadlock rims.
I had an immediate onset of death wobble on the shakedown run of my new rim/tire combination.
The death wobble itself was the result of a blown out flex joint in my front lower control arm, but the onset was from the new chassis dynamics.
Specifically, I now had my tires on wider rims with less backspacing. This provided the leverage to bring the shimmy to instigate the wobble.
Shit, it's late - time to bail on this. I'll get into the rest of that crap later.
i would do that but i’m in sc. you probably could find someone to do it tho. talk to a teen that does lawncare as they will be pretty hardworking and most liky want the extra work.
Yes, I find it hard to believe .050” is a lot on a tire like this.
You just want a good bit of sidewall flex, fronts are probably ok like that. As for the rears it's probably not heavy enough to squish a tire like that. Might have to swap them to the front.
wow, i haven't checked this thread in a minute. just wanted to bring this post over to the current pageDriving update. Got a few thousand miles on it now. (Still no real off-road)
Tire balance. I have now inserted Dyna beads in the valve stems. I forgot there are double bed locks which means the Dynamic beads are stuck between the bed lock and the inner wheel. There are some 1/2” holes in the bed locks that I hoped would eventually let the beads into the tires. But I guess not cause there doesn’t seem to be an improvement.
So I ordered some Centramic balances. They bolt on inside your wheels. Put them on and I can’t really tell a difference.
Next, I finally found a place that could spin balance tires this size. They had very nice equipment that also tells them how out of round the tires are. They balanced all four tires. They told me the back two tires were .050” out of round. They said that .030” is considered out of spec. So I will have to shave them. The front two tires were within spec. It was about an hour drive home and it was better, but it’s still un expectable for cross country driving. My wife said she will require a boob lift by the time we get to Comifornia.
Steering. Ever since I switched the steering box, I love the steering. I learned something with this truck about my other trucks. I’ve had two Scouts and two Broncos. All of them had oversized tires. All of them would be scary when I hit a big puddle on just one side. The drag of the puddle would try to turn the whole truck into the ditch. If I countersteered, often I would correen into the other side of the roadway when the puddle ended. I always thought the drag of the puddle pulled the truck that direction.
I was wrong. The drag of the puddle pulled the wheel to that side. (Not the truck) You might think it’s the same difference. But now that I have full hydro and the puddle can’t turn the wheel, the truck doesn’t pull at all. I can dive into deep puddles at high speed and the truck stay right on track.
This is fun because all the splash is behind me. Nothing goes up on my windshield like in my Bronco. I can’t say it’s great for the other cars on the road. But you know what they say about people that can’t take a joke.
Speaking of puddles, ive driven it in an absolute down pour. I’ve got a couple leaks at the windshield. The wipers work great. My windows didn’t fog up, but it was hot so maybe the AC kept them clear.
Transmission. A few posts back I had installed a new band in my tranny in an unconventional way. (Did it through the pan) It appears to be working fine, but it’s probably too early to tell. I’m really getting use to shifting the full manual valve body and I really like it. I don’t use it much to down shift. I learned quickly that you don’t down shift into first unless you are going pretty slow. It will stop the back tires.
I towed my first trailer today.
The trailer and cargo was only about 3000 lbs. It towed it fine and stopped fine with just the truck brakes.
I got to use the back up camera to hook up the ball. It was great for that. I backed straight up to it and only got out once to check how close I was. (I get out 4-5 times hooking my Bronco up)
Although backing to the trailer is easy with this truck, trying to back the trailer is impossible. I can’t see it at all in my side view mirrors. I pride myself in backing a trailer in the Bronco. In this thing, my wife might as well be driving and she can’t back a trailer to save her life.
One other item. I was able to fly the helicopter on and off the trailer without unhooking the truck. I was afraid the tarp might tear off the snaps with the wind, but they all stayed tight. Woohoo.
that is just fantastic.
