Alcan Anti wrap bar

[Hartmanb1]

Hey anyone run an anti wrap like what alcan posted a video of? Seems to work and not hinder flex, I can't quite wrap my head around a traditional style not binding up. Also curious how a guy would want to put that in a 4 link calculator to calculate anti squat and all that? Like bolt to bolt on his shackle? Or back to the bolts on the triangle part? Here's the video

 

[AgitatedPancake]

That seems like a pretty cool take on an anti wrap. Not sure it's absolutely necessary to reinvent, but does look to have less bind than your average setup.

The anti squat of leaf sprung setups plugged into a calculator is similar to a radius arm where the theoretical UCA and LCA converge at the same point on the frame, the front leaf hanger. An anti wrap bar would add some complication to how anti squat reacts overall, but not in a way that can be easily plugged into a calculator imo

 

[CDA 455 II]

Hey anyone run an anti wrap like what alcan posted a video of? Seems to work and not hinder flex, I can't quite wrap my head around a traditional style not binding up. Also curious how a guy would want to put that in a 4 link calculator to calculate anti squat and all that? Like bolt to bolt on his shackle? Or back to the bolts on the triangle part? Here's the video

nOOB question:
I thought two of the four links prevented squat?

 

[Hartmanb1]

That seems like a pretty cool take on an anti wrap. Not sure it's absolutely necessary to reinvent, but does look to have less bind than your average setup.

The anti squat of leaf sprung setups plugged into a calculator is similar to a radius arm where the theoretical UCA and LCA converge at the same point on the frame, the front leaf hanger. An anti wrap bar would add some complication to how anti squat reacts overall, but not in a way that can be easily plugged into a calculator imo

Oh ok, I was reading a bit before posting and people talking about anti squat with the typical design anti wrap. But yeah, I thought it was pretty cool, and watching it as the axle moved made me think the typical bar would bind like crazy

 

[TimJus]

single bar been used by oem and aftermarket for a long time.

issue is it still leaves warping force to springs

 

[Hartmanb1]

That seems like a pretty cool take on an anti wrap. Not sure it's absolutely necessary to reinvent, but does look to have less bind than your average setup.

The anti squat of leaf sprung setups plugged into a calculator is similar to a radius arm where the theoretical UCA and LCA converge at the same point on the frame, the front leaf hanger. An anti wrap bar would add some complication to how anti squat reacts overall, but not in a way that can be easily plugged into a calculator imo

Oh ok, I was reading a bit before posting and people talking about anti squat with the typical design anti wrap. But yeah, I thought it was pretty cool, and watching it as the axle moved made me think the typical bar would bind like crazy

single bar been used by oem and aftermarket for a long time.

issue is it still leaves warping force to springs

Yeah, I think there's always going to be trade offs, either you're wrapping them up or binding, but the right mix of both would be good for certain applications.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

I'm not sold on the design. I feel like it's putting a wierd bind on the leafs and will cause excessive wear over time.

Seems like his leafs are way to soft also. That was some crazy wrap for fairly mild obstacles.

 

[Hartmanb1]

I'm not sold on the design. I feel like it's putting a wierd bind on the leafs and will cause excessive wear over time.

Seems like his leafs are way to soft also. That was some crazy wrap for fairly mild obstacles.

I think he builds them with more thinner leafs, like instead of 4leafs that are ¼ inch thick, he'll do like 6 that are thinner, for a better ride and more flex. Probably one of the trade offs. But he did say he's got a lot of stretch built into the springs, so maybe having the pin really offset would have an effect as well🤷‍♂️ dunno.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

I think he builds them with more thinner leafs, like instead of 4leafs that are ¼ inch thick, he'll do like 6 that are thinner, for a better ride and more flex. Probably one of the trade offs. But he did say he's got a lot of stretch built into the springs, so maybe having the pin really offset would have an effect as well🤷‍♂️ dunno.

Ya, I get that. I've ran aftermarket leafs with 7 or 8 thin leafs. I still don't think they wrapped as bad as that. Never had my pinion yoke maxing out on a slight climb.

Either way, soft leafs and a traction bar isn't a bad idea, I just don't think I like that design.

 

[AgitatedPancake]

Oh ok, I was reading a bit before posting and people talking about anti squat with the typical design anti wrap. But yeah, I thought it was pretty cool, and watching it as the axle moved made me think the typical bar would bind like crazy

It'll definitely make a seat of the pants change in feel because the axle is forcing traction instead of wrapping the pinion up by a shock absorber, but from a geometry standpoint the leaf springs are already fully constrained as far as a geometry calculator goes. The additional link will cause change, just not easy to plot out because of the inherent overconstraint.

nOOB question:
I thought two of the four links prevented squat?

Resistance to squat (or dive) is essentially dictated by how much the axle is moving forward or rearward at any given point, and the rate of pinion angle change. And that basically applies across any type of suspension from various link configs to different leaf setups

 

[welndmn]

I like the anti wrap bar hanging just below the driveshaft so it gives me something to skid on that is not the driveshaft.

 

[rattle_snake]

Ya lots of wrap without. flat springs that invert. So a good application for a anti-wrap bar.

The forward end is fixed, so really just moved the joint that allows misalignment to a different place. Still forces pinion angle like the traditional type (and spring bind), but the short arm length of axle triangle seems like it would make pinion angle vs travel worse.