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Adjustable proportioning valves

JNHEscher

JNHEscher

Red Skull Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2020
Member Number
1892
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2,999
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Dogwood, MO.
I kinda need one, but am a bit hesitant as I see some slight consistency about bad Wilwood stuff.

Current project in need of one is my 2001 Subaru Outback. A valve with 10mm x 1.0 threads would be cool, but obviously only needs a couple adapters.

What's the word on brands to look at and brands to skip?
 
Wilwood valve stuff is all 1/8" pipe or bsp. Nothing aside from possibly calipers is dirrect thread, you need adapters for all of them.
 
The Wilwood, Tilton ect are not true bias adjusters and will only net you a 50% decrease in  flow over stock. Hold the pedal long enough and you will still end up with the same pressure at the caliper in the end, they just slow down the pressure spike.
 
SLOWPOKE693 said:
The Wilwood, Tilton ect are not true bias adjusters and will only net you a 50% decrease in  flow over stock. Hold the pedal long enough and you will still end up with the same pressure at the caliper in the end, they just slow down the pressure spike.
Click to expand...
Bummer. Been thinking just tee the rear line between the MC and OE prop valve. Perhaps I'll start with that and see how it does.
 
SLOWPOKE693 said:
The Wilwood, Tilton ect are not true bias adjusters and will only net you a 50% decrease in  flow over stock. Hold the pedal long enough and you will still end up with the same pressure at the caliper in the end, they just slow down the pressure spike.
Click to expand...
It's awesome you typed that out cause I've been wondering how the hell they worked given they are just "inline" with the brake caliper.:beer:
 
SLOWPOKE693 said:
The Wilwood, Tilton ect are not true bias adjusters and will only net you a 50% decrease in  flow over stock. Hold the pedal long enough and you will still end up with the same pressure at the caliper in the end, they just slow down the pressure spike.
Click to expand...


Wilwood Disc Brakes

MasterCylinder No: 260-8419, master cylinders, aluminum tandem, combination remote, compact master cylinder, go-kart master cylinder, handle-bar master cylinder, rebuild kits, high volume, hvm master cylinder, tandem, bleeding kits
www.wilwood.com www.wilwood.com

I'm running this on the rear of a 97' 4Runner with GM disc's on the rear, not sure what you are talking about but it stopped my rear brakes from going full lock up at the slightest touch to a nice manageable balance.

I cut it in to the rear brakes under the truck. I didn't have any valve at all, it used ABS to control rear brake lock up with drums.
 
Stingray said:

Wilwood Disc Brakes

MasterCylinder No: 260-8419, master cylinders, aluminum tandem, combination remote, compact master cylinder, go-kart master cylinder, handle-bar master cylinder, rebuild kits, high volume, hvm master cylinder, tandem, bleeding kits
www.wilwood.com www.wilwood.com

I'm running this on the rear of a 97' 4Runner with GM disc's on the rear, not sure what you are talking about but it stopped my rear brakes from going full lock up at the slightest touch to a nice manageable balance.

I cut it in to the rear brakes under the truck. I didn't have any valve at all, it used ABS to control rear brake lock up with drums.
Click to expand...
He's just saying it's an adjustable orifice so it effects flow and pressure rate of rise.
If you allow enough time the brake pressure at the caliper will equalize across the prop valve, might not matter in your case, just explaining how they work.
 
CarterKraft said:
He's just saying it's an adjustable orifice so it effects flow and pressure rate of rise.
If you allow enough time the brake pressure at the caliper will equalize across the prop valve, might not matter in your case, just explaining how they work.
Click to expand...
Ok, that makes sense, but in 4 years of running it I have never been on the brakes long or hard enough to equalize.

I get it limits flow, and if you stand on the pedal long enough it will equalize, in a highway application I can say it has never gave me more brake than I need.

In my application at 70 mph with out it the slightest touch of the brake pedal brought 37's to a smoking lock up and an end swapping situation. With it, I was able to balance the rear disc's to the fronts and get manageable braking front to rear.
 
JNHEscher said:
Indeed. Going to be taking this on some lightish trails. Can't imagine pressure slowly equalizing would cause a problem, but there may be scenarios I'm not thinking of where it is problematic.
Click to expand...
Is giving you more pressure an issue?
I gutted a 97 4runner and basically changed EVERYTHING, I was told NUNS were gonna die, I gutted 8 brake lines into the ABS system and threw it in the trash, I eliminated 4 speed sensors on the corners that controlled ABS and the speedometer and ran two lines out to front and rear wheels, my system used wheel sensors and the ABS to modulate braking, I removed rear drums and threw GM disc's with that valve, and slowly tuned in the rear brakes, It's my daily and we wheel it pretty regularly. I probably have 10K freeway/city/trails, and have not had any adverse reactions.

In your application I don't see an issue, what are you doing that you need to add, and what is there that you are changing?
 
Stingray said:
Is giving you more pressure an issue?
I gutted a 97 4runner and basically changed EVERYTHING, I was told NUNS were gonna die, I gutted 8 brake lines into the ABS system and threw it in the trash, I eliminated 4 speed sensors on the corners that controlled ABS and the speedometer and ran two lines out to front and rear wheels, my system used wheel sensors and the ABS to modulate braking, I removed rear drums and threw GM disc's with that valve, and slowly tuned in the rear brakes, It's my daily and we wheel it pretty regularly. I probably have 10K freeway/city/trails, and have not had any adverse reactions.

In your application I don't see an issue, what are you doing that you need to add, and what is there that you are changing?
Click to expand...
Basically exactly what you did. Same overall (A)BS control on my Subaru that I've started removing.

The OE PV setup runs the two rear lines from the ABS block to the PV.

I almost think the pressure increasing to the rear as I hold the brakes could be beneficial. PV only has to prevent the rear from locking up during hard deceleration.
 
SLOWPOKE693 said:
The Wilwood, Tilton ect are not true bias adjusters and will only net you a 50% decrease in  flow over stock. Hold the pedal long enough and you will still end up with the same pressure at the caliper in the end, they just slow down the pressure spike.
Click to expand...

All true.

That said, the Wilwood, Tilton, etc should work fine for what 99% of us need. All we're after is having the rear brakes lock up after the fronts. It only takes a slight delay in the rears reaching full pressure to achieve that.
 
gt1guy said:
All true.

That said, the Wilwood, Tilton, etc should work fine for what 99% of us need. All we're after is having the rear brakes lock up after the fronts. It only takes a slight delay in the rears reaching full pressure to achieve that.
Click to expand...

I just wanted to make everyone aware of how it works. Most people think it works like a regulator and think that the "50% decrees fully closed" is going to be some big deal when in reality it is barely noticeable. If it keeps the rears from locking up before the front that's all that matters but depending on the MC bore sizes sometimes thats not always the case after install.
 
Say you're creeping down a steep mountain trail, riding the brakes. I take it the APV will eventually allow for the rears to start to skid.
 
JNHEscher said:
Maybe that Wilwood will work.
Click to expand...

I have the Wilwood deal in my race car. I gutted the brake system and tossed the ABS unit and went from a 4 line setup down to a 2 line setup directly off the MC with a tee in the front and rear line. My car is full time 4wd and I'm using that valve to limit how much heat I put in the rear rotors that have been cut way down so I don't warp them.

Also something else to note: You should plumb the rear brakes into the front MC port and the fronts into the rear port for best pedal feel even if the MC bores are the same size.

20240521_190733.jpg




Yes those are poly brake lines. Because racecar
 
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JNHEscher said:
Say you're creeping down a steep mountain trail, riding the brakes. I take it the APV will eventually allow for the rears to start to skid.
Click to expand...

If you have a problem with the rears locking up way before the fronts that could still be a problem in that scenario.

Hook everything up like normal but add a spot to install the prop valve and test lockup. If you don't have a problem I wouldn't even worry about adding one.
 
CarterKraft said:
He's just saying it's an adjustable orifice so it effects flow and pressure rate of rise.
If you allow enough time the brake pressure at the caliper will equalize across the prop valve, might not matter in your case, just explaining how they work.
Click to expand...

In order for that valve to work the way they describe it in their literature there would have to be a line back to "tank" to relieve the excess pressure like in a hydraulic system. We call those remote relief valves and what they are selling isn't that. :laughing:
 
SLOWPOKE693 said:
If you have a problem with the rears locking up way before the fronts that could still be a problem in that scenario.

Hook everything up like normal but add a spot to install the prop valve and test lockup. If you don't have a problem I wouldn't even worry about adding one.
Click to expand...
Don't know if it's a problem yet. My car is still on jack stands :laughing:

Haven't really looked into this, but I'm guessing the OE PV splits the rears because of the limited slip.
 
JNHEscher said:
Don't know if it's a problem yet. My car is still on jack stands :laughing:

Haven't really looked into this, but I'm guessing the OE PV splits the rears because of the limited slip.
Click to expand...

My Honda had what they called I4wd and a limited slip front diff and basically what that did was apply brake to the front wheel that was slipping to give the wheel with traction more of the bias.

In your case both front and rear are split because that car has/had 4 wheel ABS and the system wants to control each one individually to control what the car is doing. I'm sure Subaru probably has it programmed to help in "offroad" situations as well but I really don't know enough about them to say either way.
 
I'd plumb everything without it first and see if you even need one. No sense in spending the money if you don't need to. Cutting a flaring a line and throwing a valve in is easy peasy if you do need one.

What size line comes out of the master? My Honda had 1/4" to the ABS unit and 3/16 out to the wheels. I replumbed it with all 3/16 from the master out.
 
Gonna stop at Oh Really's and see about getting a couple 10mm inverted flare tees. I could take out the OE PV to start with.

Same size lines throughout the system. Open diff in front, limited slip in the center, and Torq Locker in the rear.
 
total newb said:
Wilwood valve stuff is all 1/8" pipe or bsp. Nothing aside from possibly calipers is dirrect thread, you need adapters for all of them.
Click to expand...
Bit late to the game here, sorry.

Wilwood does have a prop valve that is already set up for IF. No adapters needed unless you're running bubble flare. I installed one on a friend's build a few years ago. Plug & Play.
 
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