9" E Lockers?? Anyone?? Bueller....

[4x4toyotatyler]

So I am planning out my next step of my 94 4runner build, axles and suspension... Ultimately, I want e lockers rather than ARBs again. But I also want fabricated housings. Most fabricated housings use 9" third members, but I cannot find ANY e locker options for 9" third members. Does anyone know if anyone makes them? And then the more important question, does anyone know why no one does make them? Can you just "not fit" e lockers in there? Seems like a pretty lame excuse...

Back up plan is yota 8" HP third with elocker in the front, and 9.5" full float elocker rear in ruffstuff housings. But would love to do 9" front and rear if I can so I can do some 35 splines in the front.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

I can't believe people still like elockers.

Go Arb, do the install correctly and enjoy.

 

[AK_F250]

It's a packaging issue, and since nothing has come with a 9" since the late 80s there's probably next to zero incentive on their end to retool and make one for this niche market.

 

[Rangerrod]

Even if they made one I wouldn’t run it. The two pinion elocker were such garbage no one is evening trying to run the 4 pinion version.

arb is proven itself in competition. Ditch the shitty plastic lines run stainless and enjoy.

 

[rockyota83]

Ditch the shitty plastic lines run stainless and enjoy.

i agree with everything but this

anything that breaks the plastic line will also likely break stainless which can also take out the fittings on the axle, i prefer the plastic line cause when something snags it(like a tree branch) it just takes out the plastic line and you can fix it in less than 10 minutes with a little spare line and a couple of these fittings

 

[Mr Stubs]

Those look highly illegal in California


And yes, e-locks bring the suck.

 

[4x4toyotatyler]

It's a packaging issue, and since nothing has come with a 9" since the late 80s there's probably next to zero incentive on their end to retool and make one for this niche market.

Interesting. So because there's no current oem application, no aftermarket vendors want to make one? That seems strange to me since the 9" third member is one of the most abundant drop out thirds ever made, and is still used today in tons of aftermarket axle setups.

Others have mentioned that e lockers can't compete, so then why is every manufacturer who uses selectable lockers doing e lockers rather than air? Every single selectable locker application since the mid 2000s (from an oem) has been electronic actuated.

Just curious why e lockers don't stack up compared to air as people have mentioned so far. I want the engineering explanation, not the "because that's what all the racers use" explanation.

 

[rockyota83]

Others have mentioned that e lockers can't compete, so then why is every manufacturer who uses selectable lockers doing e lockers rather than air? Every single selectable locker application since the mid 2000s (from an oem) has been electronic actuated.

are you seriously that fucking dense? they dont use air lockers because then they would have to add an air system to control a fucking locker so instead they use 12v thats already in the vehicle

 

[subybaja]

Just curious why e lockers don't stack up compared to air as people have mentioned so far. I want the engineering explanation, not the "because that's what all the racers use" explanation.

Two reasons come to mind.
-The Ected selectable "locker" is really a clutch-type limited slip, with a magnet that clamps the plates. It will still slip under heavy load, and isn't recommended for over 35s.
-The Eaton E-locker is a true locker, but until it was re-designed a few years ago it would unlock then relock when going from forward to reverse. The new design does not do that.

The Eaton is almost identical to the new Ford 10.5 Elockers. I can't remember if they make them or not.

Those two are enough to keep most people away.

Then OX is the odd man out, but they don't have anything for the 9" either.

 

[DesertCJ]

I can't believe people still like elockers.

Go Arb, do the install correctly and enjoy.

LOL, I can't believe people still run air lockers Hey man, your lockers not on...oh shit. Psssst, my line broke. Pssssst, my compressor isn't working, Psssst, oh shit I broke an axle that took out the air collar and now I don't even have 3 wheel drive:rolleyes:

 

[AK_F250]

Interesting. So because there's no current oem application, no aftermarket vendors want to make one? That seems strange to me since the 9" third member is one of the most abundant drop out thirds ever made, and is still used today in tons of aftermarket axle setups.
.

Correct on the number out there, but think about what most of them are under. A car doesn’t need a selectable locker, and since arb already makes one for the limited market that does why bother? I could be totally wrong, but that’s how I see it from a business standpoint.

 

[vetteboy79]

Looking at the body of pretty much any 9" carrier, locker or otherwise, the diameter necks down really small after the ring gear to clear the 3rd pinion bearing. None of the existing E-lockers would work with that case style.

 

['84 Bronco II]

Lots of bad information in this thread

The main reason you don't see electronic lockers for the 9" is the packaging issues with the diff design. The 9" ring gear has a small inner diameter and there is a pinion support bearing that results in a relatively small carrier. It is difficult to make a selectable lock that matches the strength of the gear sets and axles available for the 9" within the constraints of the carrier envelope. It took a long time before ARB made a 40 spline 9" locker and it is $$$$. I think it would be possible to make an electric locker for the 9", but would it be feasible to make one strong enough and affordable enough people would buy it over an ARB? I don't know, but I certainly like my electric lockers and have seen way more issues with air lockers on the trail. Electric is less complicated in my opinion and easier to fix on the trail if you do have issues.

Eaton uses three different designs for its locking mechanisms on their electronic lockers: Ball and ramp (shit), Collar locking (decent for trail rigs), and the new "direct acting" (which should hold up much better to abuse). The GM and Ford axles use the "ball and ramp" mechanism which locks and unlocks during direction changes and take longer to re-lock and is very susceptible to damage during these situations. The "collar locking" style used in the smaller Dana axles also locks and unlocks during direction changes, but does so much quicker and is less susceptible to damage. The "direct locking" is only available in Dana 60 and 70 applications, but does not unlock during direction changes and therefore should hold up much better to abuse.

The Auburn ECTEDs as mentioned are really just clutch-type limited slips that tighten up when they are turned on. They wear out just like normal clutch-type limited slips, and may not lock up 100% even when they are fresh.

Ox makes electric actuators for their lockers that I believe function more or less like other air lockers, but the electric actuator that operates the "shift fork" is not integrated with the carrier and has to be incorporated into the cover. Obviously this doesn't lend itself to drop-out style axles. I believe the short-lived Detroit Electracs functioned similarly, but were based on a Torsen-style carrier rather than an open carrier.

I am not sure how the OEM Toyota, Ford, and GKN (Rubicon) lockers operate, but I do not believe they unlock during directional changes like most of the Eatons do. I am not aware of any issues with OEM electric lockers.


So to answer the original question, no, there are not any electric selectable lockers available for the 9", and there probably never will be.

 

[Treefrog]

Lots of bad information in this thread

The main reason you don't see electronic lockers for the 9" is the packaging issues with the diff design. The 9" ring gear has a small inner diameter and there is a pinion support bearing that results in a relatively small carrier. It is difficult to make a selectable lock that matches the strength of the gear sets and axles available for the 9" within the constraints of the carrier envelope. It took a long time before ARB made a 40 spline 9" locker and it is $$$$. I think it would be possible to make an electric locker for the 9", but would it be feasible to make one strong enough and affordable enough people would buy it over an ARB? I don't know, but I certainly like my electric lockers and have seen way more issues with air lockers on the trail. Electric is less complicated in my opinion and easier to fix on the trail if you do have issues.

Eaton uses three different designs for its locking mechanisms on their electronic lockers: Ball and ramp (shit), Collar locking (decent for trail rigs), and the new "direct acting" (which should hold up much better to abuse). The GM and Ford axles use the "ball and ramp" mechanism which locks and unlocks during direction changes and take longer to re-lock and is very susceptible to damage during these situations. The "collar locking" style used in the smaller Dana axles also locks and unlocks during direction changes, but does so much quicker and is less susceptible to damage. The "direct locking" is only available in Dana 60 and 70 applications, but does not unlock during direction changes and therefore should hold up much better to abuse.

The Auburn ECTEDs as mentioned are really just clutch-type limited slips that tighten up when they are turned on. They wear out just like normal clutch-type limited slips, and may not lock up 100% even when they are fresh.

Ox makes electric actuators for their lockers that I believe function more or less like other air lockers, but the electric actuator that operates the "shift fork" is not integrated with the carrier and has to be incorporated into the cover. Obviously this doesn't lend itself to drop-out style axles. I believe the short-lived Detroit Electracs functioned similarly, but were based on a Torsen-style carrier rather than an open carrier.

I am not sure how the OEM Toyota, Ford, and GKN (Rubicon) lockers operate, but I do not believe they unlock during directional changes like most of the Eatons do. I am not aware of any issues with OEM electric lockers.


So to answer the original question, no, there are not any electric selectable lockers available for the 9", and there probably never will be.

Eaton's direct acting, or what they are calling the elocker4, is available for a few other axles as well. I think Dana 35 and 44, and a couple of Toyota diffs.

 

[Ghetto Fab.]

Toyota lockers function much like an OX I would think, a sliding collar to lock up the side gears inside the diff. Its actually a pretty robust setup. The big downfall of the toyota locker is the electric motor on the outside eventually gets moisture in it and fails. I have front and rear toyota e-lockers on my 4runner and they work great, but I also live in central california and I don't play in mud or snow much.

I have not heard or seen many issues with the JK and JL style elockers other than just stupidity abuse. They seem to work fairly well for what they are.

ARBs work well and are a quality product. However, I've seen a ton of issues with them, my favorite being compressed air coming out of the axle vent because the seals are bad. Psssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssst

Kevin

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Fwiw, the TJ Rubicon used a low pressure air system. So not Every oem.

LOL, I can't believe people still run air lockers Hey man, your lockers not on...oh shit. Psssst, my line broke. Pssssst, my compressor isn't working, Psssst, oh shit I broke an axle that took out the air collar and now I don't even have 3 wheel drive:rolleyes:

Because they work fine if you have half a brain and can install them properly. A line can break or a compressor have wiring issues just the same as an elocker can if a jackass installs them.

​​​​​​Toyota elockers suck for a crawler, they use super thin side gears that break on 35s. Not to mention the issues with the external motor. I've been down that road and never will again.

To be fair, my 96 4runner has an untouched factory rear elocker and it works fine for mild use.

Toyota lockers function much like an OX I would think, a sliding collar to lock up the side gears inside the diff. Its actually a pretty robust setup. The big downfall of the toyota locker is the electric motor on the outside eventually gets moisture in it and fails. I have front and rear toyota e-lockers on my 4runner and they work great, but I also live in central california and I don't play in mud or snow much.

I have not heard or seen many issues with the JK and JL style elockers other than just stupidity abuse. They seem to work fairly well for what they are.

ARBs work well and are a quality product. However, I've seen a ton of issues with them, my favorite being compressed air coming out of the axle vent because the seals are bad. Psssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssst

Kevin

See above, they are not very robust.

The biggest problem is that once you have an issue, the parts are super expensive.

Of course you've seen issues, there are probably 1000s of arbs for every e locker out there.


As far as the Eaton, it needs a 1/4 turn to engage. Including when changing direction. This would be an absolute killer for me in the snow. The only e locker I would consider would be an ox.

 

[DesertCJ]

"Because they work fine if you have half a brain and can install them properly. A line can break or a compressor have wiring issues just the same as an elocker can if a jackass installs them."

I'd never use an electric locker either but I've personally seen more problems with air lockers than all other lockers combined. The only thing even close would be broken welded diffs...

 

['84 Bronco II]

Eaton's direct acting, or what they are calling the elocker4, is available for a few other axles as well. I think Dana 35 and 44, and a couple of Toyota diffs.

The "ELocker4" models are the newer 4 spider carriers that replaced the weaker 2 spider carriers they sold previously. Unless something has changed very recently, the Dana 60 & 70 are the only applications that have the new "direct acting" locking mechanism and all the others use the "locking collar" mechanism which disengages and re-engages with direction changes.

 

[rockyota83]

"Because they work fine if you have half a brain and can install them properly. A line can break or a compressor have wiring issues just the same as an elocker can if a jackass installs them."

I'd never use an electric locker either but I've personally seen more problems with air lockers than all other lockers combined. The only thing even close would be broken welded diffs...

ive been around tons of arbs, have 3 of them myself, very rarely have a problem and its typically easily and quickly fixed

 

[Treefrog]

The "ELocker4" models are the newer 4 spider carriers that replaced the weaker 2 spider carriers they sold previously. Unless something has changed very recently, the Dana 60 & 70 are the only applications that have the new "direct acting" locking mechanism and all the others use the "locking collar" mechanism which disengages and re-engages with direction changes.

I could be wrong, and their website is not clear. But it seams that there is the 4 pinion elocker and the elocker4, which also has 4 spider carriers. But I am finding elocker4 for the Dana 30 and 35, and a large spread of yota diffs. That said I don't know if they are all the direct acting.

 

[4x4toyotatyler]

Lots of bad information in this thread

The main reason you don't see electronic lockers for the 9" is the packaging issues with the diff design. The 9" ring gear has a small inner diameter and there is a pinion support bearing that results in a relatively small carrier. It is difficult to make a selectable lock that matches the strength of the gear sets and axles available for the 9" within the constraints of the carrier envelope. It took a long time before ARB made a 40 spline 9" locker and it is $$$$. I think it would be possible to make an electric locker for the 9", but would it be feasible to make one strong enough and affordable enough people would buy it over an ARB? I don't know, but I certainly like my electric lockers and have seen way more issues with air lockers on the trail. Electric is less complicated in my opinion and easier to fix on the trail if you do have issues.

Eaton uses three different designs for its locking mechanisms on their electronic lockers: Ball and ramp (shit), Collar locking (decent for trail rigs), and the new "direct acting" (which should hold up much better to abuse). The GM and Ford axles use the "ball and ramp" mechanism which locks and unlocks during direction changes and take longer to re-lock and is very susceptible to damage during these situations. The "collar locking" style used in the smaller Dana axles also locks and unlocks during direction changes, but does so much quicker and is less susceptible to damage. The "direct locking" is only available in Dana 60 and 70 applications, but does not unlock during direction changes and therefore should hold up much better to abuse.

The Auburn ECTEDs as mentioned are really just clutch-type limited slips that tighten up when they are turned on. They wear out just like normal clutch-type limited slips, and may not lock up 100% even when they are fresh.

Ox makes electric actuators for their lockers that I believe function more or less like other air lockers, but the electric actuator that operates the "shift fork" is not integrated with the carrier and has to be incorporated into the cover. Obviously this doesn't lend itself to drop-out style axles. I believe the short-lived Detroit Electracs functioned similarly, but were based on a Torsen-style carrier rather than an open carrier.

I am not sure how the OEM Toyota, Ford, and GKN (Rubicon) lockers operate, but I do not believe they unlock during directional changes like most of the Eatons do. I am not aware of any issues with OEM electric lockers.


So to answer the original question, no, there are not any electric selectable lockers available for the 9", and there probably never will be.

My man... THANK YOU! The only person with sense on this thread that makes me think they even know enough of what they are talking about to waste my time with haha.

The packaging makes a lot of sense, that 9" third definitely gets pretty small pretty quickly. Sounds like I need to call eaton and ask if they are planning on making their latest elocker for the 9" or just stick with their yota options

 

[subybaja]

My man... THANK YOU! The only person with sense on this thread that makes me think they even know enough of what they are talking about to waste my time with haha.

Bet you're fun at parties.

 

[Rangerrod]

Bet you're fun at parties.

Listen to his podcast he giggles like a 15 year old girl seeing a penis for the first time.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

"Because they work fine if you have half a brain and can install them properly. A line can break or a compressor have wiring issues just the same as an elocker can if a jackass installs them."

I'd never use an electric locker either but I've personally seen more problems with air lockers than all other lockers combined. The only thing even close would be broken welded diffs...

Then why are you in here? :rolleyes:

 

[YotaAtieToo]

My man... THANK YOU! The only person with sense on this thread that makes me think they even know enough of what they are talking about to waste my time with haha.

The packaging makes a lot of sense, that 9" third definitely gets pretty small pretty quickly. Sounds like I need to call eaton and ask if they are planning on making their latest elocker for the 9" or just stick with their yota options

So explaining how different e lockers work just blew your mind? ​​​​​​

The packaging was answered in the 2nd post.

Picking a diff solely based on weather they have an elocker available is pretty stupid.

If you're so damn sold on engaging your diff with electricity instead of air, go with 60s and ox lockers.

 

[DesertCJ]

Then why are you in here? :rolleyes:

For a good laugh:rolleyes:

 

[rockyota83]

Bet you're fun at parties.

hes a fawking tool

 

[rockyota83]

So explaining how different e lockers work just blew your mind? ​​​​​​

The packaging was answered in the 2nd post.

Picking a diff solely based on weather they have an elocker available is pretty stupid.

If you're so damn sold on engaging your diff with electricity instead of air, go with 60s and ox lockers.

he needed someone that doesnt even understand the need for beadlocks to make some big drawn out post trying to sound like hes some locker genius to make him feel all warm and cozy

 

[Rangerrod]

So explaining how different e lockers work just blew your mind? ​​​​​​

The packaging was answered in the 2nd post.

Picking a diff solely based on weather they have an elocker available is pretty stupid.

If you're so damn sold on engaging your diff with electricity instead of air, go with 60s and ox lockers.

He’s a Toyota fanboy. You know the type puts every dollar they can into an 8” puts bigger tires on snd surprised they tiny ring and pinion doesn’t hold up. So now he’s building 9’s but still likes to run shitty parts so wants to run elockers.

I bet his mind would be blown again if you explained how a completion air locker worked.

 

[rockyota83]

He’s a Toyota fanboy. You know the type puts every dollar they can into an 8” puts bigger tires on snd surprised they tiny ring and pinion doesn’t hold up. So now he’s building 9’s but still likes to run shitty parts so wants to run elockers.

I bet his mind would be blown again if you explained how a completion air locker worked.

if you dump enough money into that 8" you can make the gears stronger then chromo shafts