6.7 Powerstroke non-vgt turbo

[back woods]

Kicking around the idea of putting together a T4 turbo kit for a 2016 F450. The truck is a 2nd gen, 440hp, 4.30 gears. It tows a solid 20k (not combined) all over and it has had weight loss surgery. The stock VGT does well but has some lag, is annoying out of the tail pipe and we rarely use the exhaust brake (overboosts and throws codes). Ive got a BW S363sxe that I plan on using with a 68mm turbine and possibly a .83ar turbine housing.

Anyone in here go T4 and tow with it? I know the 6.7 is sensitive to sizing (dont go too big) and it needs custom tuning. The kit is around $3-4k and I think I can build one for around $1200. I run the same turbo on my 7.3 and love it. The hard part is when you try to find any information about the T4 its all guys with lifts, 40s, and chargers that are sized wrong.

Thanks

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Have you thought about tuning the stock turbo? You can tune a vgt to come on instantly. You shouldn't be getting any lag.

Also, if you're going to do it, I wouldn't want to go down in size on the compressor size from stock.

 

[back woods]

++
Also, if you're going to do it, I wouldn't want to go down in size on the compressor size from! stock.+!+1!

The 2nd gen turbo is known for a little bit of lag compared to the 11-14. Although not bad it generally gives you a disconnected feeling when driving and letting off in the upper to mid rpm. Everytime you let up on the throttle the vanes close way down. Gives it a choked down feeling for a second when you get back into the throttle.

The same 363 in my 7.3 starts making solid boost at 1500rpm. Based on the 6.7 being a smaller air pump than the 7.3 I think it should light up good around 1600-1650rpm.

This is what it pulls.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

The 2nd gen turbo is known for a little bit of lag compared to the 11-14. Although not bad it generally gives you a disconnected feeling when driving and letting off in the upper to mid rpm. Everytime you let up on the throttle the vanes close way down. Gives it a choked down feeling for a second when you get back into the throttle.

This is what my 6.0 feels like with the engine brake tune I just put on. It's what I wanted for towing my enclosed trailer, although mine is smaller than that behemoth. Might make sense to get with a tuner who has a profile to not slam the vanes shut every time you come off the throttle.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Sounds like an easy fix with a good tuner. I can't imagine tearing everything apart and doing the conversion before trying some different tuning.

 

[back woods]

Sounds like an easy fix with a good tuner. I can't imagine tearing everything apart and doing the conversion before trying some different tuning.

Good point, $250-300 for a single custom tune. Im interested in the 363 because it should hit harder at optimal towing rpms without too much loss in spool. The time and taking everything apart isnt a big deal. Most of the kit would be put together outside of the truck and then install it all.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Good point, $250-300 for a single custom tune. Im interested in the 363 because it should hit harder at optimal towing rpms without too much loss in spool. The time and taking everything apart isnt a big deal. Most of the kit would be put together outside of the truck and then install it all.

I'm still trying to learn about the s300 craze. Seems like you can't find anything bad about them anywhere. On the other hand, I've seen this before with other products where guys are just happy because they're supposed to be. I trust your opinion over all the other bs on the diesel ricer sites though.

To me the beauty of the 6.7ps is that it makes plenty of power without really messing with anything. I can appreciate simplifying the turbo by ditching the vgt, but not like any other single part of that truck is simple and vgt's can be awesome when working right. It's crazy you guys aren't using the exhaust brake function, maybe a tuner can help with that also. Has it been in for any reflashes?

I'd be a little worried about the drive pressure and egt's at the higher rpm's with that turbo, but maybe if you make enough power at a lower rpm range you won't need to hit the higher rpm's.

 

[back woods]

The key to the s300 working great is proper sizing, especially in the turbine.


No oem reflashes to date. The exhaust brake throws an overboost code with the load and tries to reduce power. The last time we used the exhaust brake, it was on, rolled back into the throttle, boost skyrocketed to 42psi and it threw a limp code. Typically boost never gets over 30psi. This is something it has done since new. It helps but the truck made it to 80k before its first set of brake pads without it.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

The key to the s300 working great is proper sizing, especially in the turbine.

Ya, everyone thinks a giant turbo is better. Having a manual, I want the smallest (within reason) turbo I can make work.

No oem reflashes to date. The exhaust brake throws an overboost code with the load and tries to reduce power. The last time we used the exhaust brake, it was on, rolled back into the throttle, boost skyrocketed to 42psi and it threw a limp code. Typically boost never gets over 30psi. This is something it has done since new. It helps but the truck made it to 80k before its first set of brake pads without it.

Sounds like the vanes are lagging on opening, also could be your problem on lag too, they closing too slow when you let off. I'm surprised it's done it since new, my buddy bought the same year F350 dually and uses the shit out of it for hauling heavy stuff in steep mountains. He loves his exhaust brake.

You might try pulling the turbo and taking a look at it. Make sure the vanes are moving freely. Like I said, the vgt can be bad ass, but like you're experiencing, they can be a pain also if not working properly.

 

[back woods]

Ya, everyone thinks a giant turbo is better. Having a manual, I want the smallest (within reason) turbo I can make work.



Sounds like the vanes are lagging on opening, also could be your problem on lag too, they closing too slow when you let off. I'm surprised it's done it since new, my buddy bought the same year F350 dually and uses the shit out of it for hauling heavy stuff in steep mountains. He loves his exhaust brake.

You might try pulling the turbo and taking a look at it. Make sure the vanes are moving freely. Like I said, the vgt can be bad ass, but like you're experiencing, they can be a pain also if not working properly.

I started with an S366/73/.91, then swapped in a .83ar housing. Was still pretty laggy so I switched to an S363/73/.83. I had bought two S363s at the time, the 63/73 was good but switching to an S363/68/.83 completely blew the other 2 turbos out of the water. They are getting more and more popular now and many 7.3 guys have lopsided boost/back pressure. As in the turbo makes 15psi boost with only 10psi of exhaust back pressure. Whereas many turbos have those 2 numbers switched.

So speaking of numbers, spool up, etc. I recently put 4.30 gears in my 7.3 truck and it has 285/75 tires. Running the RPM numbers between the F450 with double OD (.674) and 225/70/19.5 tires and the lesser .71 ratio of the 4r100 and taller tires. The RPM of the two trucks in OD is within 50rpm of each other at 65mph. 1984rpm vs 2030rpm. Keep in mind the 7.3 truck has the same turbo I am interested in running on the 6.7. In the F350 (7.3) it will cracked 25psi at 2000-2100rpm. Back down around 1500rpm it is making around 12psi. Wondering if I can take these numbers, take the difference in displacement of the 6.7 and 7.3 as a percentage and apply it to spool up rpm, etc. Basically a WAG but could be relatively close.

 

[back woods]

Ended up keeping the VGT and modifying it. Pulled the turbo and installed a Stainless Diesel 10 blade turbine wheel (stock is 13 blade). Better top end flow, less back pressure and got rid of the annoying hiss it had. Put it back together with a 360° thust bearing and a KC Gen 2 billet compressor wheel. While I was at it I installed a 4" downpipe and complete 4" back with a Jone's Turbine muffler. As well as a CCV delete that is routed into the exhaust and an egt gauge. Truck runs fantastic! Has a nice whistle that isnt overpowering or annoying. Spool up time is great too.

Can post links to the turbo wheels if anyone wants them.

 

[back woods]

Stock compressor wheel and turbine next to the upgraded parts.