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5-Point Harnesses - What to Get?

desertPOS

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Need to order up a pair of 5-point harnesses for a rig I'm building - to be used with new PRP seats with provision for 5-pt harnesses. Looking for latch/link, padding, chest clip - standard stuff, but as hassle free as possible. IE don't have to keep tightening all the time during use. Bonus points if easier to take on/off especially for DD usage or by people that aren't used to using harnesses all the time (IE not for race use).

I've got 3" CROW latch/link 5pts in my truck, but seems that I'm constantly having to retighten as they slowly loosen up during use. Ironically, they don't always easily loosen up when TRYING to do so like before unlatching the belt to get out. Didn't see another thread here anywhere - seemed worthy of a discussion. All the brands look like they have basically the same thing - one better than the other and why?

Since they're PRP seats I'll probably just default to going with the standard PRP stuff like this:

Kartek carries Mastercraft, Crow, and Simpson: Seat Belts & Hardware - Kartek Off-Road - didn't do a deep dive but they all look the same to me at a glance. Speaking of loosening, just saw these at Kartek's site - wonder if they're worth trying: Tension Springs - Kartek Off-Road

Other things worth considering:
• 2" vs. 3" shoulder belts - if not needing to meet race tech, is there any reason to go 3" instead of 2" (with padding for either)
• roller vs. easy-adjuster lap belts from PRP - looks like the PRP belts have clips on the adjusters like the last Kartek link I posted
• ratcheting lap belt worth considering?
• bolt in belts vs. latch style?

If there's another thread on here about this, I suck at searching:flipoff2:

IMG_4054.jpg
 

Clb

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My only input is this....
Twist locks over lever as it seems easier to disentangle the octopus when you can hold the twist lock open and pull away from ones self.
All I got.
 

RPS1030

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I’ve had use with 2 brands so far.

I got Crow again recently for the buggy. Had a set in the last rig also. The integrated latch/link adjusters save some space. The padded shoulder straps are more fully stitched instead of several inches flopping and needing to be put back in place.

The new to us SxS came with PRPs. So far, not in love in comparison. The latch/link seems more difficult to use, the separate adjusters take up more room, and the supposedly easy release shoulder straps are tough to get to move.
 

desertPOS

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My only input is this....
Twist locks over lever as it seems easier to disentangle the octopus when you can hold the twist lock open and pull away from ones self.
All I got.

Are you talking about these? Anyone have a good long term usage comparison between these, and latch/link in equivalent harnesses? All I know about them is (I think) that they're not legal for racing, or at least were not allowable in Ultra4 last time I was reading through the rules...

Screen Shot 2021-10-31 at 5.26.47 PM.png




Does anyone know why cam locks are not legal for racing? mobil1syn ?
 
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desertPOS

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I’ve had use with 2 brands so far.

I got Crow again recently for the buggy. Had a set in the last rig also. The integrated latch/link adjusters save some space. The padded shoulder straps are more fully stitched instead of several inches flopping and needing to be put back in place.

The new to us SxS came with PRPs. So far, not in love in comparison. The latch/link seems more difficult to use, the separate adjusters take up more room, and the supposedly easy release shoulder straps are tough to get to move.

It's tough to compare their product images since Crow appears to have last updated their website in the early 2000s but comparison pics below. I'm assuming you're talking about the extra padding in the PRP harness that extends down behind the 'adjustment roll' on the shoulder belts that it appears Crow does not have:

yb.jpeg
PRP.jpeg



In the above pics, I notice that the Crows have fabric hanging off the shoulder adjustment, which I like due to ease in pulling up/loosening, while PRPs do not (at least in the pics I attached). It also seems that the lap belt adjusters being integrated with the latch/link makes a lot more sense in the Crows than having it separated in the PRPs - which I didn't even notice until it was mentioned above. PRP appears to have the 'anti loosening' clips integrated into their adjusters, while I can't tell off hand if the Crows have or not. My only experience with those clips is happening to see them on Kartek's site earlier today, as I linked above. If they work though, I'll definitely be ordering some to try out on my existing Crows (approximately 12 years old, although had them recertified last about 5 years ago).

The Crow image doesn't show a sternum strap but I know that you can have them add one, which I think I would prefer...
 

RPS1030

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I'm assuming you're talking about the extra padding in the PRP harness that extends down behind the 'adjustment roll' on the shoulder belts that it appears Crow does not have:
You’re probably right. I’ll try to get some pics in a bit.
 

desertPOS

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The Simpson harnesses look pretty bitchin - doesn't appear that all of their harnesses are this way, but the ones linked above have the shoulder strap and lap straps both attached to the same single bracket on each side, which seems like it'd be quite a bit simpler. Especially if you're just driving on the street and don't use the anti-sub belt, you could probably just leave the belt adjusted how you want and just clip two things together instead of 4. Separate lap belt adjusters though, however...

Also actually really like the velcro pockets they have on the shoulder straps and see those being pretty nice to have. Other mfgs may also offer them as well, I've never noticed...

Screen Shot 2021-10-31 at 6.12.02 PM.png


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RPS1030

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Crow Harness post first

Integrated Latch/Link takes minimal room and easier to adjust when they don’t end up against the seat bolsters.

Don’t see any springs in the adjusters. Can’t say either way in retightening during use, seem to be in/out of the crawler more often. No complaints about getting in/out and adjusting then. Fully stitched padding is one less “thing” when getting them back on the shoulders.

Ordered and installed damn near identical set in the last crawler. This one came with an old stiff set of Crows about the same also, new webbing is way nice.

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RPS1030

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PRP Post

This set came on the SxS I got a few weeks ago. Just out of cert date 4-5 months ago, so not super old and not to stiff.

Lap belt adjusters being separate basically puts them into the seat when trying to get real tight. Personal preference/notice, but seems a lot more difficult to get the latch together so it’ll grab right compared to the Crows.

The extra padding down past the shoulder adjusters isn’t really noticed while wearing. I’d say equal comfort for me. But, that flap is just something extra when stuffing behind the seat or bringing them back to strap in.

I’m guessing these are the EZ-Adjusters? Part of the latch obviously moves out, but it’s still like 50/50 on getting slack on the first try before unbuckling and getting out.

Partially spend more time in the seat, partially changing position/posture as we ride; I definitely find myself grabbing the shoulder straps multiple times during rides.

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desertPOS

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PRP Post

This set came on the SxS I got a few weeks ago. Just out of cert date 4-5 months ago, so not super old and not to stiff.

Lap belt adjusters being separate basically puts them into the seat when trying to get real tight. Personal preference/notice, but seems a lot more difficult to get the latch together so it’ll grab right compared to the Crows.

The extra padding down past the shoulder adjusters isn’t really noticed while wearing. I’d say equal comfort for me. But, that flap is just something extra when stuffing behind the seat or bringing them back to strap in.

I’m guessing these are the EZ-Adjusters? Part of the latch obviously moves out, but it’s still like 50/50 on getting slack on the first try before unbuckling and getting out.

Partially spend more time in the seat, partially changing position/posture as we ride; I definitely find myself grabbing the shoulder straps multiple times during rides.

Thanks for the pics - gives a better look at the 'release' on the shoulder straps. If it worked well, it wouldn't need the strap hanging off it, but it sounds like maybe it's no better? This post as I started it is not really geared toward racing or any of that, but I will say with a helmet on and gloves, it's kind of nice having the strap hanging off the shoulder release for putting slack in the shoulder belts before you undo them.

With the Crows I have (with padding), I've never wished there was more padding that extended down under the shoulder latches, so that's worth mentioning. And the truck I have them bolted into has been raced, so I've spent 8+ hours belted into it with no complaints on the comfort side of things...

My biggest concern with the PRPs or Simpsons I posted above, even though I'm really digging some of the features of the Simpsons, would probably be the lap belt adjusting mechanism that is separated from the latching mechanism. The space between the latching mechanism and the inside edge of the seat is not that much. With the Crows I have, which adjust AT the latching mechanism, I'm basically pushing or putting pressure on the strap while sawing it forward and backward every time I tighten them up, and there seems to be just enough room to do so as is. Because of that ritual of doing that per side every time I've tightened my belts over the past decade, the ratcheting style adjusters seem like they might be worth looking at? I've never talked to anyone that ran them though...
 

desertPOS

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After starting this thread I figured I'd take another look at what I've got - 3" Crows. Only issue I've had is that I need to retighten from time to time, but company has always been really easy to deal with, and seems to be all USA made etc. Originally bought in '11 and recertified aka rewebbed twice since then...

IMG_4059.jpg



One thing that I think is worth mentioning is that I've used these enough that I can get them nice and tight and all of that, but if you have the wife/girlfriend/passenger who is not used to dealing with harnesses in your rig - seems the less explanation needed to help them get their harness tight, the less likely they'll get hurt if something bad happens. Hence the ease of usability being a good thing... Hence the interest in maybe camlocks or ratchets:homer:
 

gt1guy

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Lap belts should be 2". Fits the lilac crest of the pelvis better than 3".

Shoulder harness should be 3" unless wearing a HANS device.
 

AK_F250

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Are you talking about these? Anyone have a good long term usage comparison between these, and latch/link in equivalent harnesses? All I know about them is (I think) that they're not legal for racing, or at least were not allowable in Ultra4 last time I was reading through the rules...

Screen Shot 2021-10-31 at 5.26.47 PM.png




Does anyone know why cam locks are not legal for racing? mobil1syn ?
I run cam locks in my road race car, but would never want them in the dirt. The reason they're not legal is they fill up with dirt and grit that you can't see off road and could fail to hold in a wreck.

Harness wise I have PRP seats and 5 points in 3 rigs and have been very happy with them for many years.
 

chaplinfj60

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I love that Simpson latch that has both parts in one bucket. I am 8n and out a lot on the trail and time saved buckling and adjusting sizes looks super easy. Plus the pockets. Omg. Where do I pay 😁😁
 

Weasel

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I love that Simpson latch that has both parts in one bucket. I am 8n and out a lot on the trail and time saved buckling and adjusting sizes looks super easy. Plus the pockets. Omg. Where do I pay 😁😁
Yeah I like that as well. Other then I don't wear the harness belts much of the time. lap belt mostly.

I think I went with mastercraft. I got the quick adjustster and they seem to work pretty well. I do try and wax the belts and adjsuters and helps keep them working.

I don't agree with the 3" upper belts. depends on the person, the 3" are to wide and don't fit right.
 

CDA 455 II

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Need to order up a pair of 5-point harnesses for a rig I'm building - to be used with new PRP seats with provision for 5-pt harnesses. Looking for latch/link, padding, chest clip - standard stuff, but as hassle free as possible. IE don't have to keep tightening all the time during use. Bonus points if easier to take on/off especially for DD usage or by people that aren't used to using harnesses all the time (IE not for race use).

I've got 3" CROW latch/link 5pts in my truck, but seems that I'm constantly having to retighten as they slowly loosen up during use. Ironically, they don't always easily loosen up when TRYING to do so like before unlatching the belt to get out. Didn't see another thread here anywhere - seemed worthy of a discussion. All the brands look like they have basically the same thing - one better than the other and why?

Since they're PRP seats I'll probably just default to going with the standard PRP stuff like this:

Kartek carries Mastercraft, Crow, and Simpson: Seat Belts & Hardware - Kartek Off-Road - didn't do a deep dive but they all look the same to me at a glance. Speaking of loosening, just saw these at Kartek's site - wonder if they're worth trying: Tension Springs - Kartek Off-Road

Other things worth considering:
• 2" vs. 3" shoulder belts - if not needing to meet race tech, is there any reason to go 3" instead of 2" (with padding for either)
• roller vs. easy-adjuster lap belts from PRP - looks like the PRP belts have clips on the adjusters like the last Kartek link I posted
• ratcheting lap belt worth considering?
• bolt in belts vs. latch style?

If there's another thread on here about this, I suck at searching:flipoff2:

IMG_4054.jpg
Having to retighten them means it's time to retire them.


I have Mastcraft with the flip level.

As a DD seatbelt: I tighten when I belt up/loosen when I unbelt.


Haven't had a problem in 4 years.


As for racing:
3" belts all the way around.
Camlocks are awesome.
Shoulder pads too.
Newest date of production as possible.

Just remember the violent impact you may experience upon a crash.
 
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reverse pull on everything.

access to the buckles is the another issue that i see often that causes an issue. theyre are usually tuck under the seat between a bunch of crap
 

AK_F250

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reverse pull on everything.

access to the buckles is the another issue that i see often that causes an issue. theyre are usually tuck under the seat between a bunch of crap
This 100%

Set your belt length so that everything is above the seat and easy to adjust. I rolled once at a decent speed racing with pull down lap belts and I wasn’t in nearly as tight as I should have been, but it was as tight as I could go with seat, cage, fire extinguisher etc in the way. Seemed fine at the time but I ragdolled pretty good compared to the next couple with reverse pull set up properly.
 

CDA 455 II

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This 100%

Set your belt length so that everything is above the seat and easy to adjust. I rolled once at a decent speed racing with pull down lap belts and I wasn’t in nearly as tight as I should have been, but it was as tight as I could go with seat, cage, fire extinguisher etc in the way. Seemed fine at the time but I ragdolled pretty good compared to the next couple with reverse pull set up properly.
You bring up a good point.

Were you belted tight before the roll?


Because one thing I learned is that the harness/belts will stretch when in a crash/roll etc.

The more violent the crash, the more it stretches.

That's why pro racers, in my case amateur road racing, drivers are belted VERY TIGHT before a race. VERY TIGHT.
 

AK_F250

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You bring up a good point.

Were you belted tight before the roll?


Because one thing I learned is that the harness/belts will stretch when in a crash/roll etc.

The more violent the crash, the more it stretches.

That's why pro racers, in my case amateur road racing, drivers are belted VERY TIGHT before a race. VERY TIGHT.
That was the issue, I was as tight as I could be with that setup but it wasn’t enough. I belt in uncomfortably tight because during a short course race the normal jarring does loosen things up. Throw an endo roll in there and things stretch. Suspension seats don’t help either, I press myself into the seat as much as I can when belting up but there’s still much more deflection to be had in a violent crash.

ETA: My car on the other hand with corbeau fiberglass seats with braces and a hans I’m strapped down and can’t move anything besides my head and arms. I haven’t wrecked yet but Im positive I would stay put.
 

CDA 455 II

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That was the issue, I was as tight as I could be with that setup but it wasn’t enough. I belt in uncomfortably tight because during a short course race the normal jarring does loosen things up. Throw an endo roll in there and things stretch. Suspension seats don’t help either, I press myself into the seat as much as I can when belting up but there’s still much more deflection to be had in a violent crash.

ETA: My car on the other hand with corbeau fiberglass seats with braces and a hans I’m strapped down and can’t move anything besides my head and arms. I haven’t wrecked yet but Im positive I would stay put.
Good man! :beer:


Remember that loooong thread on the pros/cons of suspension seats at the old site?:laughing::eek:

Very eye-opening/informative thread for me.


I have a Mastercraft seat in my Bronco; but I had a NASCAR seat in my road racing Supra.

No suspension seat for me in racing!
 

junkytj

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Timely thread. Thanks. I'm building one and trying to decide what to put in it. No racing, but pretty silly obstacles where we are. Buddy barrel rolled 3 times this weekend off an obstacle we all do. Harness/roll cage definitely saved him. His are miserable to put on and adjust though.
 

Opiebennett

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I had Crow 3” belts in my first car and have PRP 5.3’s with pads in my current car.

Crow shoulders self loosened a lot, lap belts too. PRP with the spring loaded adjusters shown above seem way better in that regard. I wish I had the padded 2”shoulder straps vice the 3” though- much more comfortable.

All of this is trail riding / werock comp experience - never raced at speed.

I rode in an EMC XJ (Team NAXJA) with the Hooker 2” belts with 1/4” drive ratchets on the lap belts and the spring loaded adjusters on the shoulder harnesses, and that was the most secure I’d ever been held into a car. Mounting for the ratchet mechanism takes more room than I have in my current car though. I think on PBB Dustin Webster had some relevant thoughts.

Recommend searching for posts by Redbulljeep containing “Hooker” :flipoff2:
 

gozuki

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Just got 2 sets of the new PRP w/ quick adjust reverse pull. 2" lap and extra shoulder padding on 2" straps. Best I've ever had.
 

mdogg

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My 0.02

Your belts will always loosen off with a suspension seat. Doesn't matter what brand or belts you use, its been covered lots but the suspension in the seats allows the belts to constantly become loose as they move with your body. Consider a hard shell seat for racing.

For belts since a Hans is necessary now I would ensure the belts are comfortable with the brace on. The pads that come on prps, crows, etc is too bulky and will not sit nice between the Hans and helmet.

Where ever you get belts from pads or not you will want to request the uppers to narrow up to work with your neck brace.

Make sure lap belts are a pull up style so you can actually get them tight.

Ive been using belts from Teamtech for a few years now, have slim pads built into the upper straps that work with HANS device, you can send them back and have them retech'd when they expire, and they will build them to any configuration you want.

You are going to be directly connected for 8+ hours to these parts make sure you are comfy and safe in them
 

desertPOS

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Ordered a pair of the Simpson D3 harnesses:

I talked to someone at Simpson and they are making them with a reverse pull on the lap belt, as they don't normally come like that. I let them know that all the product images on their web page are wrong, which they apparently are aware of, but FYI if you go to the above link. Apparently they do not come with pockets on the shoulder straps - which I expressed my extreme disappointment with and they're going to see if they can add them when they're made:smokin: Went with 2" lap, 2" shoulder, padding, bolt-in...

PRP was the definite runner up... Some of the other brands like Hooker or Teamtech look nice as well but damn do their web pages and product images suck, so didn't look at them too closely. Same with Crow... Schroth's look nice, and I dig the dual anti sub nut belt but $1,300 or so for a pair of those seems a bit high for this project
 
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Bebop

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I have a set of "custom made" crow harnesses.

2" shoulder belts with padding and the "new style" adjuster. Same thing PRP uses.
3" lap belt with ratchet on one side and a new style adjuster on the other (absolutely love it)
2" submarine strap with a pull up, new style adjuster

Step1: get in and latch belts
Step2: ratchet the lap belt as tight as you can
Step3: pull up on the sub belt and get it as tight as you can
Step4: adjust shoulder belts to your liking.

The adjustable submarine strap and ratchet on the lap belt make this the best offroad harness I've been in. Never loosen and you feel completely attached to the car.

I do not ride without being completely belted in and tightly. People driving with lap belts only scare me.

I've tried a 7 point harness in a LMP car and it's even better. I just haven't seen any with a latch and link buckle. I love the camlock stuff but do not trust it for offroad use so I don't use them.
 
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