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30 Splines

rattlewagon

rattlewagon

shitboxin
Joined
May 20, 2020
Member Number
552
Messages
457
Loc
Northfield Vermont
How do 30 splines stack up these days? Making a thread for 30 spline chat

RCV seems to be the way to go

Are TG longfields a happy middle ground?

Anyone actually run the EMPI birfs?

Strength difference between the gundrilled and non?

How much strength does double heat treating add over the single

Anyone run 27 spline chromos?

I broke a OG long after running it since 2014. Replaced it with a used TG long because didnt want to wait for RCVs. These were just some thought when I was swapping it out

HnR9AYFl.jpg


Inner race broke, took the splines off the shaft. Bell looks ok, hoping I can rebuild it for a spare.
 
Following because I'm a nerd. I was always under the impression that gun drilled was just a marketing gimmick and originally put in just so you could grease the birf without having to take the knuckle apart.

Im running 30spline RCV birfs, TG long short side inner and OG long long side inner on my fj60 axle, so I have a science experiment going as well LOL!!
 
We ran a set of EMPIs on an 84 long bed with 35s for a couple years. Beat the hell out of that thing. When we tore down the front end for some maintenance we found the inner splines had a slight twist to them. Kept running them and never broke 'em.
 
I'm running OG Longfields. Since those aren't available anymore, I'll be going with RCV next time I need a set. What's up with the 300m shaft option RCV is offering, I assume most people aren't finding a need for that, or are they?
 
Slander said:
Following because I'm a nerd. I was always under the impression that gun drilled was just a marketing gimmick and originally put in just so you could grease the birf without having to take the knuckle apart.
Click to expand...

When did you learn it was for weight reduction?
 
Dan said:
When did you learn it was for weight reduction?
Click to expand...
Never in this application.

I know other motorsports gun drill shafts for weight reduction, always doubted that's why it was done on a Toyota axle shaft
 
Slander said:
Never in this application.

I know other motorsports gun drill shafts for weight reduction, always doubted that's why it was done on a Toyota axle shaft
Click to expand...

That's a very good point about application. Like you said it sure is handy for greasing and marketing though.
 
Trophy truck shafts are gun drilled because they are 2.375” in diameter. Pure gimmick in a Toyota shaft. I’d argue it makes the shaft weaker.
 
Aisin said:
Trophy truck shafts are gun drilled because they are 2.375” in diameter. Pure gimmick in a Toyota shaft. I’d argue it makes the shaft weaker.
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40 spline is only about 1.7" diameter and is commonly gun drilled. I'm not an engineer so I would like to hear your argument as to why they are weaker when drilled to the appropriate ID.

Gimmicks and application aside, couldn't you technically gun drill a 1" shaft and maintain the minimum breaking strength of the shaft?
 
Dan said:
40 spline is only about 1.7" diameter and is commonly gun drilled. I'm not an engineer so I would like to hear your argument as to why they are weaker when drilled to the appropriate ID.

Gimmicks and application aside, couldn't you technically gun drill a 1" shaft and maintain the minimum breaking strength of the shaft?
Click to expand...
Removing material from the center of a shaft does not make it stronger. It can only make it weaker.
 
Aisin said:
Removing material from the center of a shaft does not make it stronger. It can only make it weaker.
Click to expand...

Not arguing about making it stronger, rather equal in strength when drilled to the right ID. Doesn't there come a point where strength doesn't matter past a certain wall thickness vs solid?
 
Gun Drilling of shafts is typically done to allow the part to slightly twist and return to its original shape during a rotational shock load, in effect it is letting the part plastically deform without breaking. In materials like 300M, the part is very strong in ultimate strength but will fracture easier under a shock loading condition. Gun drilling does not increase strength, but rather reduces the hoop stress in the part.

In a typical car application the cost and benefit will hardly ever be noticed and are probably unneccesary.
 
I've ran and broke everything except RCV's.
Than I started breaking r&p's.
 
RCV says this is the rebuild kit for a "toyota birfield." (Part # d44-r)

1624641994666.png


www.rcvperformance.com

RCV CV Joint Rebuild Kit D44-R

Keep your RCV Ultimate CV Axles and CV Joints operating like new with the RCV CV Rebuild Kit D44-R. Kit includes bearing cage, inner bearing race and bearings. Cage is manufactured from aircraft quality high alloy steel for ultimate strength and then REM polished for reduced friction. 1x D44-R...
www.rcvperformance.com www.rcvperformance.com

Had these next to each other so I figured Id snap a pic. Bobbylong shaft on top, tg in the middle and stock on the bottom.

PHNSFJyl.jpg


Stock:

BKOu2YZl.jpg


bobby long:

XVO6n6ul.jpg



Tg Long

LOtTrXjl.jpg


Birffs: TG, Stock, long. Stock is about 1/8" shorter than the other two.

nWnpgNPl.jpg
 
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For anyone using the EMPI from Marlin have you had to test the warranty? At around 120 bucks cheaper with still a 2 year no questions asked warranty that sounds like a pretty good deal to me, especially since 120 bald eagles converts to $160 Kangaroos.
 
azdirt3.0 said:
In materials like 300M, the part is very strong in ultimate strength but will fracture easier under a shock loading condition.
Click to expand...
not true at all. Rest is close enough.

Aisin said:
Removing material from the center of a shaft does not make it stronger. It can only make it weaker.
Click to expand...
95% of the stress is in the outer part of the shaft so the weight reduction vs strength is worth it in some applications. And as said above allowing the shaft to plastic flex is a good thing.
 
Lucked out, found a used cage/race/balls from a jeep buddy who blew the bell on his d44 rcvs and the inners survived.

Fits great! Packed it full of franks goop and put it on the shelf for later.
 

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rattlewagon said:
Lucked out, found a used cage/race/balls from a jeep buddy who blew the bell on his d44 rcvs and the inners survived.

Fits great! Packed it full of franks goop and put it on the shelf for later.
Click to expand...
Whatever happened to that guy lol.. his trolling was epic!
 
Well after 2 trips out, the used TG birf is clicking on hard right turns. I swapped in the long/rcv combo and it clicked right away. So no go there. Couple of paper weights now. At least with the IFS hubs I can change em out quick.

I got a new rcv birf on the way now.

PVHz6Wgl.jpg
 
RCV report back here. The passenger side RCV I put in in July of 21 was clicking by October of 21 and has been clicking ever since.Still only clicks on hard left turns on flat ground. Does not tick turning and articulating most of the time. I cant get it to blow up ( I have tried) . RCV wont warranty it for free till it blows, and I dont want to risk it going on a busy wheeling weekend. So I ordered another and will pay to send this one in for warranty.

Any one else have a long time clicking birf that just wont seem to break? Is this common? Will they warranty this birf, or just send it back and tell me its fine?

(driver side has never made any sound, put in around the same time)
 
Its not so much the clicking itself, but the pending breakage that Im worried about.

clicking means the balls loose in the groove yes? Guess I like my balls tighter. lol. I thought when It started to make noise that it only had a few more trips in it, but here I am almost 2 years later with 20+ wheeling days on it. I just dont know how much longer to expect it to last.
 
The OG longs I had in my Toyota were second hand, beat, abused and the guy had warrantied a couple out over the years he had them. They clicked the day I installed them and took years of hard abuse and never broke.

This is probably not everyone’s experience. I’m not sure what piece fails/wears causing the clicking.
 
rattlewagon said:
Any one else have a long time clicking birf that just wont seem to break? Is this common? Will they warranty this birf, or just send it back and tell me its fine?
Click to expand...
Covecrawler said:
This is probably not everyone’s experience. I’m not sure what piece fails/wears causing the clicking.
Click to expand...

Years ago I spent a day with Bobby Long as he showed me what caused the clicking and how to fix it. RIP Mister.... Hope you, Odie and Marlin are hanging out and wheeling daily :beer::beer::beer:.

The clicking is from the balls rolling over small ridges that build up inside the bell. It's not a sign of impending doom or failure. When I say small, it doesn't take much of a ridge to start the clicking.

You can tear the CV apart and get in there with a small sanding roll and smooth those ridges out, then reassemble. The clicking will go away until you've used them enough to build up that ridge again.

IDR on the mini truck sized RCVs, but on the larger CVs, like D60 and 80 series Land Cruiser, you can get oversized balls to take up the play after you've ground out the ridges a few times (over many years).

***EDIT - This is for the typical RCV click. You could also have a more serious problem like a cracked cage causing the noise, but those don't usually last too long before the blow up.
 
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