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2nd gen steering gear tech/ options 2022

Seabass

Member
Joined
May 24, 2020
Member Number
1344
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17
I broke my own rules and got froggy with my tow rig over thanksgiving and came home with a lot of slop in the steering gear. I priced out a Borgson box and shaft @ $1300ish. I plan on keeping the truck forever but am still a tightwad. Help me spend my money and effort wisely.
I have a spare box off a wrecked truck to put on there but then the parts truck is a bummer to move.
weighing my options for hydro assist while dicking with this.

What lets go in the box that its loose but doesn't leak?
Can I tighten the preload and keep on going or is it fucked?
Is a borgson box and hydro assist a waste of money and effort? I hear they are much easier to turn over the factory box. I also recently read they aren't lasting as long as the originals.
I plan on one day adding the hydro-boost off the younger parts truck. I know that's added complication (Vanco porting) for hydro assist.

Truck is on 37"s. Tow rig and Mexico adventure rig. Not built to beat on trails but need to get through fucked up roads when there isn't another option.
 
I put borgeson box on my 2nd gen. It’s a huge improvement. Faster steering and all.

I honestly think it’s just a modified GM steering box. Spacers welded on the housing and possibly either modified or swapped sector shaft.
 
~2010 Silverado seem like it, minus spacers. Same sector shaft size as 2nd gen rams (1.25”) Doesn’t list spline count, however.

Under $200 with core on RockAuto

CARDONE 278418
 
shortbus4x4 said:
Not sure, replaced quite a few working at a Dodge dealer. They were cheaper and better quality than OE.
Click to expand...
Imho going from 4 turns to 3 turns lock-to-lock is the best part. Most cars are about 3 turns. I used to be spinning the steering wheel retarded fast pulling into park lot. Any looseness, “dodge” steering shortcomings or center dead spot are greatly alleviated.
 
TrailTamer said:
~2010 Silverado seem like it, minus spacers. Same sector shaft size as 2nd gen rams (1.25”) Doesn’t list spline count, however.

Under $200 with core on RockAuto

CARDONE 278418
Click to expand...

Express 2007-2013
Silverado 2500 2007-2010
Silverado 3500 2007-2010
Suburban 2007-2013

this is the cardone 27-8418 specs from there Cardone Reman® - Remanufactured Power Steering Gear Box

Input Shaft Diameter (in): 0.66"
Input Shaft Type: Double Flat
Output Shaft Diameter (in): 1.250"
Output Shaft Diameter (mm): 31.75 mm
Output Shaft Spline Count: 33
Number of Mounting Holes: 3
Pressure Port Thread Size: M18 x 1.5
Return Port Thread Size: M16 x 1.5
Hose Port Type: O-Ring
Pump Rotation: Standard
Total Turns Lock to Lock: 3.2
 
Reading reviews and theres mention of the PSC box being needed for tires over 35". You guys have any idea what work is done inside the box to make them beefier?
ParadisePWoffrd said:
Is this the Borgeson box that you are looking at? 94-02 Dodge Ram Borgeson Steering Box Upgrade

It looks different than the Chevy box, but I suspect it is based off another application. They list it needing the borgeson shaft or you will have to modify the stock joint.
Click to expand...
 
I went with the nuclear option and got the big bore 6 bolt psc box with ports for hydro assist. Gonna run it with the ports capped until I swap the non cad 2001 axle. Then I'll add a remote reservoir when the ram goes on. The next question is if the T style HD steering is up to hydro assist or if a heimed dom steering set up should be done.
 
ParadisePWoffrd said:
Is this the Borgeson box that you are looking at? 94-02 Dodge Ram Borgeson Steering Box Upgrade

It looks different than the Chevy box, but I suspect it is based off another application. They list it needing the borgeson shaft or you will have to modify the stock joint.
Click to expand...
They look same to me, other than color, steering shaft adapter attached and mounting spacers.

Sure looks same same to me, for a lot more money.
 
My post got lost in recent crash. I'll try to paraphrase.

One popular upgrade is the Delphi 680 that everybody calls a 'Borgeson'. It has the 4-bolt sector shaft cover with the 'smile' cast into it. This is a faster ratio box. It is used in factory Silverados.

Another is the 6-bolt sector shaft cover box. It's been called XD, mopar big-box, PSC, etc. Afaik, it's a newer stock dodge box. Looks really beefy. Not sure the ratio.

Other boxes are classic Saginaw boxes. ID guide here:

How To Identify Your Steering Gear Box - Lee Power Steering

Our comprehensive guide will help you identify your power steering gearbox. We sell & service 5 different Saginaw gearboxes: Saginaw 800/808, 708, GMT & Ford.
leepowersteering.com leepowersteering.com

I believe a variation of these is found in a say a 95 Ram, and is what a number of the steering box companies are turd-polishing up and charging large for. If you've got proof to the contrary, please share.
 
Along for the ride.

Can someone confirm that a Silverado box will fit my 2002 Dodge Ram 2500?

I already have a sectional steering shaft, so I can swap out the lower joint, if it doesn't match the factory one.

TrailTamer said:
I put borgeson box on my 2nd gen. It’s a huge improvement. Faster steering and all.

I honestly think it’s just a modified GM steering box. Spacers welded on the housing and possibly either modified or swapped sector shaft.
Click to expand...
Can we get a measurement on those spacers, please?
 
Grendel said:
Can we get a measurement on those spacers, please?
Click to expand...
My loose memory from doing an install is about 5/16". The barrel of the steering box is fatter, and the depression on the frame isn't deep enough. You're shimming up the ears so it bolts up tight. You can augment with washers.
 
u2slow said:
My loose memory from doing an install is about 5/16". The barrel of the steering box is fatter, and the depression on the frame isn't deep enough. You're shimming up the ears so it bolts up tight. You can augment with washers.
Click to expand...
I guess that means I need to move my steering box brace.
 
u2slow said:
Yes. The truck I worked on had the bearing plate part cut and re-welded.
Click to expand...
That's what I thought I'd have to do.
Just bought one from a friend of mine that dismantles GM trucks. Worst case, it's a core.
I really want better steering.
 
Grendel said:
Along for the ride.

Can someone confirm that a Silverado box will fit my 2002 Dodge Ram 2500?
Click to expand...
I’ll like to know too. 🍻
Grendel said:
I already have a sectional steering shaft, so I can swap out the lower joint, if it doesn't match the factory one.
Click to expand...
I think swapping the whole thing will be better. The rag joint at top failed on my new ultra power unit from rock auto and I reckons OEM, even if not failed yet, have some slop.
Grendel said:
Can we get a measurement on those spacers, please?
Click to expand...
I’ll try to remember tonight.
 
TrailTamer said:
I think swapping the whole thing will be better. The rag joint at top failed on my new ultra power unit from rock auto and I reckons OEM, even if not failed yet, have some slop.
Click to expand...
Sorry, I mean I already have a steering shaft that I built. It doesn't have the rag joint.

So all I need to do for that is use the right lower joint, that ties into the DD shaft, I installed.

like this: 95-02 4WD Dodge Ram Borgeson Steering Shaft 000950
 
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6 bolts on the cover... any idea what this one is?
He thinks 12-19 Dodge 3500.

imagejpeg_0.jpg

imagejpeg_0 (1).jpg


IMG_20221220_104126037.jpg
 
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Grendel said:
6 bolts on the cover... any idea what this one is?
He thinks 12-19 Dodge 3500.

IMG_20221220_104126037.jpg
Click to expand...

Sounds about right. It's newer than the Delphi 680, supposedly stronger. I believe that's the one somebody referenced as the 'PSC' box.
 
u2slow said:
Sounds about right. It's newer than the Delphi 680, supposedly stronger. I believe that's the one somebody referenced as the 'PSC' box.
Click to expand...
Well, I bought it for 40.00. Will see what it takes to get onto my 2002. He says it came from a 2004 GMC, but has never seen another one like it on a GM.

Also bought a Delphi 680.

Thing is, I want to go with tighter, faster steering - not sure I need stronger, it's a gasser truck on 35's. already converted to T style steering and EMF ball joints.
 
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Grendel said:
Well, I bought it for 40.00. Will see what it takes to get onto my 2002. He says it came from a 2004 GMC, but has never seen another one like it on a GM.

Also bought a Delphi 680.
Click to expand...
Please keep us posted!
Grendel said:
Thing is, I want to go with tighter, faster steering - not sure I need stronger, it's a gasser truck on 35's. already converted to T style steering and EMF ball joints.
Click to expand...
The faster steering is the bestest thing happened to my truck. Any steering sloppiness/finickiness are greatly alleviated.

It’s so much faster and took me a while before I stop oversteer on turns. :laughing:

I do NOT miss the 4 turns lock to lock. I was spinning the steering wheel as fast as I could as I pull into park lot like a clown.
 
Grendel said:
Well, I bought it for 40.00. Will see what it takes to get onto my 2002. He says it came from a 2004 GMC, but has never seen another one like it on a GM.
Click to expand...

Rockauto shows a Cardone 978418GB that looks like it. It could be a high gvwr option, but otherwise interchangeable.

Now compare that with the later dodge application (Cardone 275216) the main body looks thicker, and the sector spline is bigger.

Both have 6bolt sector shaft covers.

Edit: I think I'd prefer any of these newer boxes... less reman cycles on it. Imagine if we all bought reman diffs with r&p's they recycle until the teeth fall off :laughing:
 
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u2slow said:
Rockauto shows a Cardone 978418GB that looks like it. It could be a high gvwr option, but otherwise interchangeable.

Now compare that with the later dodge application (Cardone 275216) the main body looks thicker, and the sector spline is bigger.

Both have 6bolt sector shaft covers.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I want fast steering. Also willing to tinker around. I seem to collect steering boxes.
 
Interesting.
This is to do with the sloppy steering on the Dodges over time?

Rather than upgrade my box on my 2006 MegaCab, I took out my entire Y type steering, box, and pump.
Installed the newer T Type setup from a 2012 and newer dodge.
To me the Y type geometry and box wasn’t big enough, so if you change the box you might be masking the problem. However I have been know to be wrong in my directions.

I Can’t remember exactly what I did anymore.
I bought a complete Moog T type steering setup, pump, box, drop arm. Haven’t had any problems since like I used to. Mind you I’m on stock tires and ride height. I changed the track bar too, my bolt holes in my old one was oval. The newer one was bigger diameter bolts in it too.
 
Russfest said:
Interesting.
This is to do with the sloppy steering on the Dodges over time?

Rather than upgrade my box on my 2006 MegaCab, I took out my entire Y type steering, box, and pump.
Installed the newer T Type setup from a 2012 and newer dodge.
To me the Y type geometry and box wasn’t big enough, so if you change the box you might be masking the problem. However I have been know to be wrong in my directions.

I Can’t remember exactly what I did anymore.
I bought a complete Moog T type steering setup, pump, box, drop arm. Haven’t had any problems since like I used to. Mind you I’m on stock tires and ride height. I changed the track bar too, my bolt holes in my old one was oval. The newer one was bigger diameter bolts in it too.
Click to expand...
Yeah, there's a few threads on that.
If you read this thread, you'd see that I already have upgraded steering (T style) and EMF ball joints.
The older steering boxes create a dead spot, because they're super slow. 4+ turns, lock to lock. Modern ones are 3, ish.
 
Grendel said:
Yeah, there's a few threads on that.
If you read this thread, you'd see that I already have upgraded steering (T style) and EMF ball joints.
The older steering boxes create a dead spot, because they're super slow. 4+ turns, lock to lock. Modern ones are 3, ish.
Click to expand...
I read it and did miss it.
But I am interested in what your looking into, as Im sure Ill have box troubles at some point.

I put in the Dynatrac Rebuildable ball joints many years ago, I was at the time looking at the Carli Joints.
However the last wheel alignment I did, my axle is a bit off apparently and the shop told me I have to look at putting in offset ball joints.. how do you like the EMF ones? I been browsing the site now that you mentioned them.
 
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